The Juggernaut - Prime of the Warforged

[WruntJunior]

Hi,

The juggernaut is a great build, and it seems like it gets better after each level-up.

A few things I noticed while levelling through the heroic levels were:

The reflex save may not be high enough to provide great protection against spellcasters on elite or against elite traps. This can be worked around with buffs and good gameplay.

Some important buffs (especially Tenser's when you first get it) have a very short duration without the extend feat. That means a lot of re-casting of those spells.

Self healing is a little weak before you get the reconstruct spell, due to not having any metamagic feats other than quicken. While levelling, taking maximise and swapping it out once you get reconstruct helps a lot.

Related to the point above, slotting an item which increases spellpower for your repair spells would help too. I wasn't able to find a way to do this without sacrificing something else important because the gearing is quite dense.

Those are all little things, though, and I'm sure we'll see a lot more of them around as word spreads. Quite a few people I know are either currently trying or about to try one soon.

Thanks.

Just got my Juggernaut to 20 yesterday.

Equip a reconstruction ring to level - you won't lose anything important, trust me.

Wear a resistance item, carry haste pots (stacks with armor of speed, at least for the save bonus), and have a dex + cha item for tough traps - I was able to do the Crucible swim on hard with rolling a 2 = save. The saves are fine - it's just that gearing for them is tough while leveling (I didn't use water stance, btw - I took mithril plating at level 1, until I realized at 20 that my feat order was screwed up due to manyshot not being an arty bonus feat, which cost me about 8 feat exchanges worth of astral shards >_<).

Maximize definitely helps in heroic levels, though...but even still, my self-healing felt a little weak until 19. Luckily, this build is so powerful it just annihilates many enemies before they do much damage (but elite RwtD was a much larger challenge than normal - had too much trouble soloing, so wound up having to get a group for it, which completely steam-rolled it).

Currently farming my Spare Hand and Ring of the Master Artifice ingredients that require me to be no more than level 20 for maximum efficiency, so can't say too much for after that, but getting to 20 was about the easiest I've had it leveling a melee (with the exception of RwtD - my FvS crushed that, while this character suffered more).

[blerkington]

Just got my Juggernaut to 20 yesterday.

Equip a reconstruction ring to level - you won't lose anything important, trust me.

Wear a resistance item, carry haste pots (stacks with armor of speed, at least for the save bonus), and have a dex + cha item for tough traps - I was able to do the Crucible swim on hard with rolling a 2 = save. The saves are fine - it's just that gearing for them is tough while leveling (I didn't use water stance, btw - I took mithril plating at level 1, until I realized at 20 that my feat order was screwed up due to manyshot not being an arty bonus feat, which cost me about 8 feat exchanges worth of astral shards >_<).

Maximize definitely helps in heroic levels, though...but even still, my self-healing felt a little weak until 19. Luckily, this build is so powerful it just annihilates many enemies before they do much damage (but elite RwtD was a much larger challenge than normal - had too much trouble soloing, so wound up having to get a group for it, which completely steam-rolled it).

Currently farming my Spare Hand and Ring of the Master Artifice ingredients that require me to be no more than level 20 for maximum efficiency, so can't say too much for after that, but getting to 20 was about the easiest I've had it leveling a melee (with the exception of RwtD - my FvS crushed that, while this character suffered more).

Hi,

All good advice, thanks. Yes, a self healing melee with good dps and evasion is a force to be reckoned with.

I used most of the things you described for boosting saves, plus constant use of heroism potions, but I had trouble equipping both a CHA and a DEX item at the same time. That and using stances might have made the difference at a couple of bad moments.

Part of the problem for me is I'm used to playing toons with evasion and very high reflex saves (my ranger/rogue and a wizard/rogue), so the juggernaut felt a little behind there. But it certainly wasn't bad. And the jug had a lot more HP to play with than either of those toons do at the same level.

My character didnt have anywhere near the same amount of twink gear as my main, so even with cannith crafting it felt like he was a little bit behind there too. The gear requirements are dense, to maximise all of those abilities without constant swapping, but with more effort it can be done, no doubt.

I was nervous about a group run on elite for RWTD but it worked out fine. Our barbarian was a good stunner, and I felt like my cleaves and large melee crits using the SoS were helping to beat the ghaele down quickly enough that we weren't overwhelmed without much other CC.

Thanks.

[WruntJunior]

Hi,

All good advice, thanks. Yes, a self healing melee with good dps and evasion is a force to be reckoned with.

I used most of the things you described for boosting saves, plus constant use of heroism potions, but I had trouble equipping both a CHA and a DEX item at the same time. That and using stances might have made the difference at a couple of bad moments.

Part of the problem for me is I'm used to playing toons with evasion and very high reflex saves (my ranger/rogue and a wizard/rogue), so the juggernaut felt a little behind there. But it certainly wasn't bad. And the jug had a lot more HP to play with than either of those toons do at the same level.

My character didnt have anywhere near the same amount of twink gear as my main, so even with cannith crafting it felt like he was a little bit behind there too. The gear requirements are dense, to maximise all of those abilities without constant swapping, but with more effort it can be done, no doubt.

I was nervous about a group run on elite for RWTD but it worked out fine. Our barbarian was a good stunner, and I felt like my cleaves and large melee crits using the SoS were helping to beat the ghaele down quickly enough that we weren't overwhelmed without any other real CC.

Thanks.

I only equipped a dex item when doing the Crucible swim and Monastery ceiling, myself - otherwise, like you said, too hard to slot if I want my reconstruction item constantly on...did constantly have GH going from ~level 14 and on (picked them up for wiz king, still using them), though.

[Machination]

The reflex save may not be high enough to provide great protection against spellcasters on elite or against elite traps. This can be worked around with buffs and good gameplay.

BTW I used the Fleshshaper's docent http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Fleshshaper%27s_Docent

I upgraded to +10 Ref save. Used it until lvl 23 it was even OK on epics until I got my livewood core.

[voodoogroves]

Currently farming my Spare Hand and Ring of the Master Artifice ingredients that require me to be no more than level 20 for maximum efficiency, so can't say too much for after that, but getting to 20 was about the easiest I've had it leveling a melee (with the exception of RwtD - my FvS crushed that, while this character suffered more).

My guild mates poke fun at me for parking alts, but when I test something out I leave it "capable" and run challenges with it. Challenge materials and scaling is annoying.

[aradelothion]

Staff+Water stance can also help.

Just to add to this and what others have posted, you can cannith-craft greater parrying onto a quarterstaff/kama/wraps for that extra boost to reflex saves. I'm leveling the ranger version, and I've found I needed to really pay attention to the saves as I'm the in-guild designated Crucible swimmer and Monastery lever puller. Rough breakdown of what's achievable very easily on your own in heroic levels, off the top of my head:

+10 from Madness docents
+1-3 from Nightshield scrolls (this will be nerfed though, I think I read somewhere)
+1 Haste
+1 Armor of Speed
+2 Good Luck
+2 water stance
+4 Greater Heroism
+2 Greater Parrying

roughly amounts to +25 before dex modifiers and base saves are accounted for. Obviously not your running-around-DPS'ing setup, but situationally useful.

[dredre9987]

Just to add to this and what others have posted, you can cannith-craft greater parrying onto a quarterstaff/kama/wraps for that extra boost to reflex saves. I'm leveling the ranger version, and I've found I needed to really pay attention to the saves as I'm the in-guild designated Crucible swimmer and Monastery lever puller. Rough breakdown of what's achievable very easily on your own in heroic levels, off the top of my head:

+10 from Madness docents
+1-3 from Nightshield scrolls (this will be nerfed though, I think I read somewhere)
+1 Haste
+1 Armor of Speed
+2 Good Luck
+2 water stance
+4 Greater Heroism
+2 Greater Parrying

roughly amounts to +25 before dex modifiers and base saves are accounted for. Obviously not your running-around-DPS'ing setup, but situationally useful.

Instead of nightshield scrolls you can also use the lvl 1 arti spell resistance. Doesn't help with magic missle but the save boost is there.

[aradelothion]

Instead of nightshield scrolls you can also use the lvl 1 arti spell resistance. Doesn't help with magic missle but the save boost is there.

Good to know! I didn't realize it stacked with the resistance bonus to saves like Nightshield does. Will that be nerfed as well though?

[dredre9987]

Probably. With Turbine what is ever WAI ? LOL

[Valiance]

Why do I want to keep making this as a rune arm/bastard sword user? I have barely been playing for a while so someone please point out where I might be missing something.

It seems to me that since insightful damage only works on a 1 handed weapon, getting to add that to damage about makes up for losing the str bonus/power attack bonus to dmg on the 2 hander. Then on top of that you would be able to have rune arm working all the time.

My main is an artificer and it took me forever to somewhat master rune arm usage but man, once you get it down and get an epic elite corruption of nature man can they put out the damage. The new u17 rune arms might be nice for area of effect dmg too. Change out the old tier 4 twist to energy burst and you can have a melee with nearly the same ability but add a very nice burst dmg as well as rune arm dmg.

Also the top tier rune arms add 2d10 dmg to your weapon so that is nice too.

Thoughts?

[voodoogroves]

Why do I want to keep making this as a rune arm/bastard sword user? I have barely been playing for a while so someone please point out where I might be missing something.

It seems to me that since insightful damage only works on a 1 handed weapon, getting to add that to damage about makes up for losing the str bonus/power attack bonus to dmg on the 2 hander. Then on top of that you would be able to have rune arm working all the time.

My main is an artificer and it took me forever to somewhat master rune arm usage but man, once you get it down and get an epic elite corruption of nature man can they put out the damage. The new u17 rune arms might be nice for area of effect dmg too. Change out the old tier 4 twist to energy burst and you can have a melee with nearly the same ability but add a very nice burst dmg as well as rune arm dmg.

Also the top tier rune arms add 2d10 dmg to your weapon so that is nice too.

Thoughts?

You and I have chatted in other threads about things like Corruption, Draconic Incarnation, etc. I totally think it works great and pumps out the damage ... at range.

I recall you had a similar experience to me in choosing rune arms, as some of them were inconsistently applied. I can't imagine the frustration of swinging a bastard sword at close range, trying to move and trying to get a close-range rune arm to target and hit something.

Plus, you will want STR for THF and Overwhelming Crit anyway.

[knockcocker]

Good to know! I didn't realize it stacked with the resistance bonus to saves like Nightshield does. Will that be nerfed as well though?

This was fixed in U17 for Nightshield. Good job they jumped on this nasty bug compared
to the other bugs in this release!

[aradelothion]

This was fixed in U17 for Nightshield. Good job they jumped on this nasty bug compared
to the other bugs in this release!

I know right?

Quick question guys, is stunning blow something you rely on/land consistently during heroic levels, and where's your DC at? I'm sitting at 18 at the moment, did some IQ1 and even with +5 from the spare hand it's pretty hit and miss for me. How are you dealing with other high hp mobs in this range?

[scoobmx]

I know right?

Quick question guys, is stunning blow something you rely on/land consistently during heroic levels, and where's your DC at? I'm sitting at 18 at the moment, did some IQ1 and even with +5 from the spare hand it's pretty hit and miss for me. How are you dealing with other high hp mobs in this range?

I'm at level 14 right now. If you have a stunning item you should be able to land consistently. Otherwise you need to target mobs with weak fort saves. I happen to not have a stunning item until epic levels so that's what I do.

[WruntJunior]

I know right?

Quick question guys, is stunning blow something you rely on/land consistently during heroic levels, and where's your DC at? I'm sitting at 18 at the moment, did some IQ1 and even with +5 from the spare hand it's pretty hit and miss for me. How are you dealing with other high hp mobs in this range?

I'm not even getting Stunning Blow until 24 on my Juggernaut. >_>

[aradelothion]

I'm at level 14 right now. If you have a stunning item you should be able to land consistently. Otherwise you need to target mobs with weak fort saves. I happen to not have a stunning item until epic levels so that's what I do.

Unfortunately I've noticed that everybody in IQ1 has a pretty high fort save >.< Didn't really have any issues until then though, and since I'm 18 I was thinking of just ignoring Stunning Blow for the moment and switch my Spare Hand for a Con6/GFL belt.

I'm not even getting Stunning Blow until 24 on my Juggernaut. >_>

Ouch lol. What'd you take instead? I picked it up as my first feat, kinda feel naked on a melee/non-instakiller without it =/

In previous lives while leveling I've always had either reliable instakill/disabling options (my only non-blue bar life was a 12 Kensei/7 Rogue/1 Monk stunner) so I'm a bit at a loss for tactics; what's the generally accepted strategy dealing with 3k hp trash? Any tricks I may have overlooked? Only thing I came up with was equipping my cc guard setup (freezing ice on DT/stone prison on boots/radiance on neck/earthgrab on goggles) and just whittle away at their hp, but it strikes me as somewhat inefficient.

[blerkington]

BTW I used the Fleshshaper's docent http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Fleshshaper%27s_Docent

I upgraded to +10 Ref save. Used it until lvl 23 it was even OK on epics until I got my livewood core.

Just to add to this and what others have posted, you can cannith-craft greater parrying onto a quarterstaff/kama/wraps for that extra boost to reflex saves. I'm leveling the ranger version, and I've found I needed to really pay attention to the saves as I'm the in-guild designated Crucible swimmer and Monastery lever puller. Rough breakdown of what's achievable very easily on your own in heroic levels, off the top of my head:

+10 from Madness docents
+1-3 from Nightshield scrolls (this will be nerfed though, I think I read somewhere)
+1 Haste
+1 Armor of Speed
+2 Good Luck
+2 water stance
+4 Greater Heroism
+2 Greater Parrying

roughly amounts to +25 before dex modifiers and base saves are accounted for. Obviously not your running-around-DPS'ing setup, but situationally useful.

Hi,

Thanks to both of you for this. I didn't realise there was an upgradable docent like the parasitic breastplate with that reflex save boost. Very handy.

It's been an interesting experience levelling this toon, partly because it's my first WF, first tactics based melee, etc. I think the problems I've had (not that there have been many) are mainly due to my unfamiliarity with this playstyle and suboptimal gearing rather than any fault of the build. Even so it has been effective and fun.

Like Aradelothion mentioned, I also found slightly the DC and long cooldown of stunning blow problematic. Since it wasn't landing as reliably as I'd like in elite content at level, I swapped it out for sap. Sap doesn't do a lot to boost dps, but it helps keep incoming damage down and seemed more useful.

I am used to managing aggro on my other toons, but I don't feel like I have it quite right yet on this one. It's much easier to pick up too much aggro when cleaving. I don't have displace clickies, but scrolls are helping to bridge that gap too.

A toon with higher STR and some fighter past lives may not have a problem with landing stuns, and gearing better for it once I reach 20 would help too. But I still wonder that even with those improvements, would stunning blow eventually be reliable even only in EH content with this build?

Lastly, it would be interesting to see the gear the rest of you plan to use at heroic cap and up, both optimal and more attainable versions at 20 and 23.

Thanks.

[Viisari]

A toon with higher STR and some fighter past lives may not have a problem with landing stuns, and gearing better for it once I reach 20 would help too. But I still wonder that even with those improvements, would stunning blow eventually be reliable even only in EH content with this build?

If you get +10 stunning item, +5 exceptional combat mastery and a decent strength you shouldn't have any trouble stunning on EH.

It's EE where it gets difficult to get high enough stunning blow dc.

[blerkington]

If you get +10 stunning item, +5 exceptional combat mastery and a decent strength you shouldn't have any trouble stunning on EH.

It's EE where it gets difficult to get high enough stunning blow dc.

Hi,

Good to hear, thank you.

[WruntJunior]

Ouch lol. What'd you take instead? I picked it up as my first feat, kinda feel naked on a melee/non-instakiller without it =/

In previous lives while leveling I've always had either reliable instakill/disabling options (my only non-blue bar life was a 12 Kensei/7 Rogue/1 Monk stunner) so I'm a bit at a loss for tactics; what's the generally accepted strategy dealing with 3k hp trash? Any tricks I may have overlooked? Only thing I came up with was equipping my cc guard setup (freezing ice on DT/stone prison on boots/radiance on neck/earthgrab on goggles) and just whittle away at their hp, but it strikes me as somewhat inefficient.

I don't ever really do IQ anymore, so I don't have much in the way of tactics for there (I usually cap either with Sane Asylum or Monastery, depending on what I prefer on that specific TR). For leveling, though, an Earth3 GS tears through enemies - between cleave and great cleave, it's decent CC, and it does pretty good damage.