DDO future life and longevity

[delduath]

What sort of changes do you think would help DDO maintain people's interest and hopefully allow DDO to have a long life?

I'm wondering if developers have compiled a list of suggestions. I apologize if there is already a thread on this, I'm an infrequent and inexperienced forum user. Here are some ideas I would like to see implemented which would keep me coming back to DDO. Hopefully it is stuff the developers have and are considering!

To preface, what I like about DDO is the melding of persistant characters (being online) with DnD rules which I've grown up with. DnD rules have some issues, but really it is just a system that allows people to role-play and create interesting and unexpected character combinations. This separates DDO from other online games, which often play like arcade games or fps, and which limit your exploration of character development/skills. The flexibility of DDO makes it hard for game balancing, but would say spend less time on game balancing and more on content creation. People like to explore content in different ways, e.g. for the challenge, for the exploration, as a supremely powerful solo individual, or with friends, to find secrets, to find humor, for gear and loot, for honor, etc. I can live with the game engine improvements/changes that fix/break/introduce new problems, that's just developers trying to make the engine better in the long run.

DnD is based on role-playing and I would emphisize that in the design/future of DDO. That is what will keep me coming back.

Ok below is my list. Long live DDO!

[delduath]

1. Create "Persistant adventures"
The pay-for-content model works very well in the DnD universe. I grew up buying 'modules' in DnD such as the giants series, tomb of horrors, keep on the borderlands, drow/descent, slavelords, etc. I would explore every nook and cranny and read every detail and description. I am happy to pay for DDO content, the problem is that the way quests/instances work doesn't lend itself well to exploration and taking the time to enjoy the effort and work developers put into the content.
Sometimes I don't want to enter long quests because I know I can't finish due to real-life time constraints. There is no save button, there is no pause button, so people with RL responsibilities like children or work, may have trouble enjoying the full content. The way quests work now, you are almost encouraged to skip reading the dialog and interesting notes and details because you NEED to finish quickly.
Somehow if some adventures can be made more PERSISTANT, there may be less complaints about the rate which content comes out.
I don't think quests need to be changed, but perhaps introduce a new type of persistant, multi-part, epic adventure. I used to look forward to updates in Black Isle Studio games (e.g. Icewindale, Planescape) and the Neverwinter Nights series. A single engine is used and you could import and continue your characters. Content was 20-60 hours of gameplay and had an involving storyline. Can a similar feeling be implemented in DDO? Maybe release something like this once every 1-2 years? Have a quest that can span many days, weeks? The details of the mechanics would need to be worked out. E.g. how many people can join you in the quest? Do you prevent the character that enters the persistant quest from running other quests? Perhaps the quest will be level range limited in order to make the content creation/game-balancing easier, which I think is fine, players may need to create new characters or TR to get to the appropriate level, or just allow people to enter quests at temporarily reduced level. People may be required to enter the quest 'naked' and without previous equipment.

[delduath]

2. Update the reward system beyond XP and gear by adding more customization and brag-sheets or trophies.
The challenge leader-board is a great idea but it should be fixed and improved. Monster manual is an interesting concept that can be developed as well. These are things which people can work towards that isn't just XP and gear grinding. Some things I like about LoTRO is the that you can customize the way your character looks and your guild house. DDO has armor kits, but it's not great and can be improved e.g. to be more similar to LoTRO. In LoTRO the way you can decorate your home is really interesting. DDO should create quests which drop items which allow you to create trophies to put in your home (well DDO doesn't have homes yet, but maybe that's something to add?). Trophies can be extended to be a multi-step quest and provide fun effects, maybe for example, a dragonette statue that breathes fire when you click on it... etc. All these things are bragging-rights. When people inspect your character in-game, or visit your guild-ship, you should have the option to show-off your brag-sheets and trophies. In short, there needs to be a way to create a separate reward system beyond levelling and making your character more powerful. Directing reward systems mainly to power-gaming is a self-defeating model. It is like nuclear-escalation.

[delduath]

3. Random dungeon generation
This is similar to challenges, which are partly randomized, except maybe make some that are more like a dungeon crawl. Extend the randomization or customization to map, terrain-type, goals, monsters, bosses. Provide different lengths of available quests but with no timer (5min, 10min, 30min avg run... etc). This is to the benefit of players who like some variety and surprise. I remember playing a game called 'Adventure Construction Set' back in the early 80s. Pretty much there is alot of replay value. The rewards can stay the same (e.g. specific challenge rewards, xp, leader-board rankings), but the quest can thus be mixed up a bit. I would find this entertaining on a day-to-day basis, but would still look forward to 'custom craftedquests' as well.

[delduath]

4. Add "Level Independent" quests and challenges.
One reason why FPS or RTS games are popular is that basically anyone can join in and play together. Can this idea be extended to DDO? One possibility is to create level independent quests or challenges. The problem for RPGs is that experienced characters can't play with newbies due to the content being too easy or hard respectively and the penalties to rewards involved. There is a huge difference in power for the high level vs. low level character.
I like playing games with friends, but each person has a different amount of time they are able to or want to play. The problem with playing RPGs together is that it is difficult for all the friends to maintain the same level range. I have never seen this addressed very well in an RPG. Creating "Level Independent" quests would allow friends to play together, but there needs to be developed a way to relatively normalize the power of each character. A possibility is to nerf damage output, SP, HP of high level chars by a percentage, boost low level chars respectively. Or, a total rehaul can occur, where, e.g. all characters get 100HP, 100SP base, then add on their actual DDO HP and SP divided by 10. Damage is the same, X base + divide by 10. Spell cost would need to be scaled as well.
High level chars would still be 'better' than low level chars due to variety of abilities/spells and some slight stat bonus, but it is much closer. Make it such that at least everyone feels like they are contributing and can play together. Make quest rewards something that is level independent, like challenge tokens which can be redeemed for items, trophies, etc. This would also motivate lower level characters to level up to gain access to more abilities/spells.

[delduath]

5. DDO for DnD groups.
Why not make DDO the defacto platform to run DnD sessions. Allow content creation tools, DMing tools, perhaps as a paid service.
Find a way to integrate the DnD session content into the game play. User created content could released through some process. There was (still is?) a Neverwinter Nights community that was created by users that was very enjoyable. Allow people to experience user created content in some manner.

[Mordayn]

Interesting, but some of the requested ideas breach upon other games which can run some copywrite issues. I'm in favor of houses and trophies that can be shown off in the houses.

[tfangel]

1. Create "Persistant adventures"

My feeling is that DDO does this the best, things don't respawn in dungeons, and generally the dungeons have a story to them. Chains like Splinterskull where each quest advances the story and things change in the dungeons, although a bit repetitive at times, the idea is there, and some are better at it than others. Church and the Cult is a better example, or even Waterworks. I totally agree though on the longer ones and life interrupting. At least you can go take a bio break and not worry about respawns.

The rest, while interesting, are pretty much hard or impossible with the engine, or way they create things. More than random though i'd like to see player created content, i'm sure it would be rough, and people would try to exploit it, but there could be some real gems in there, and more content is always a good thing.

[goodspeed]

Doesn't matter. Eventually the sick factor or overused factor comes into play until; theirs really only a mainline group of people that come back.

The only nich exception is if the game is vastly different. And not in play style but workings. DDO is a common mmo. It can try all it might but it's a common run of the mill mmo.

Then you look at the few older mmo's still about. EVE. Not everyone's cup of tea but different working. As well as style. FFXI used to be one of the grand scale mmo's. (Ones where you would literally spend a great amount of time traveling.) And so that held out. (Though its been awhile and I heard they made the leveling process easier because everything was basically end game at lv 70 or 80 I think.

Anyway the point being eventually this game to will follow suit. It is inevitable. Humans need goals. And it will expand, and maybe it will even follow the same suit as ffxi. The point is like so many others before it, the game will be replaced. More then likely by either the company or whoever else has a hand in the d&d trademark pie.

So play er, have fun for about 3 or 4 years mayhaps, and then either be one of the last remnants at end (which will be long since extended beyond 25 in one way or another) or wave bye and pick up probably some secondary game that you already started playing making it the new primary.

[Cauthey]

6. Fix lag and performance issues.

[barecm]

As long as the combat engine stays ahead of what everyone else has, which it has, it will still be a great game. The fact that you can jump, run, straffe, retreat... all while attacking or casting... better than any other game period.

That being said, they have to be more vigilent on the bugs. Also, they have to finish off enhancements, PrEs and EDs. Then continue to modernize and continue to improve those systems. It seems they have gotten hung up on the content release and forgot about finishing things.

Customizing character looks would be nice too. It does seem like a lot of the classes seem to look very similar with similar geat and stuff. Dyes and costume gear sets would be cool. Also, some unique affects for guilds would be cool; based both on guild longevity as well as accomplishments. It would be nice for founders guilds (if there are any still around) to have some affects that others guilds dont, guilds formed in the first year of the game have some things newer ones don't.... etc. A nice way to reward some of the older guilds and give some recognition for keeping the ship afloat for so long....

After that, just keep the content coming.

[Dolphious]

Doesn't matter. Eventually the sick factor or overused factor comes into play until; theirs really only a mainline group of people that come back.

The only nich exception is if the game is vastly different. And not in play style but workings. DDO is a common mmo. It can try all it might but it's a common run of the mill mmo.

Then you look at the few older mmo's still about. EVE. Not everyone's cup of tea but different working. As well as style. FFXI used to be one of the grand scale mmo's. (Ones where you would literally spend a great amount of time traveling.) And so that held out. (Though its been awhile and I heard they made the leveling process easier because everything was basically end game at lv 70 or 80 I think.

Anyway the point being eventually this game to will follow suit. It is inevitable. Humans need goals. And it will expand, and maybe it will even follow the same suit as ffxi. The point is like so many others before it, the game will be replaced. More then likely by either the company or whoever else has a hand in the d&d trademark pie.

So play er, have fun for about 3 or 4 years mayhaps, and then either be one of the last remnants at end (which will be long since extended beyond 25 in one way or another) or wave bye and pick up probably some secondary game that you already started playing making it the new primary.

DDO is unique because it's based on D&D. Now if another D&D game might supplant it, but it's not "just another MMO" that's going to sputter out like age of connan or RIFT.

I, and many other DDO players, played D&D for decades before playing DDO, and some random other MMO just isn't going to "do it." That might be entirely irrational, but it's the truth.

[tiberius87]

Some very nice ideas. I think we're on the same wave length.

I only played DDO (currently taking a break, only checking out the forums once in a while) because it's based strongly on D&D.

Short comments on your ideas:

1. Having "save points" in some of the longer quests/chains would be a good idea. Such as: you reach an adventurers camp (a small public instance). You could regroup there with other people, although that might prove difficult, same as it is now with filling groups mid-chain.

2. I'd really like more RP-ing options, and housing would be awesome. Also, it would help a lot with the inventory space problem most of us are having (I just can't delete named items ). I'd really like to have my friend over to my small apartment with a harbour view, or to my Eveningstar home. I had the idea of adding housing options to tavern. Build a 2nd floor in the Lobster for example, where there could be several rooms. I also really enjoy the monster manual.

3. Part of the reason I'm taking a break is that I've started to know the dungeons too well. I always enjoy my first run through a quest, it all goes downhill from there. Random generation would be great for replayability.

4. How about puzzle/riddle and mario quests with no level requirement? You could drink a pot (similar to the giant's soup that gives you jump for example) to insure everyone has maxed swim/jump/tumble or whatever you'd need for that certain quest. No mobs. D&D isn't only about hack & slash. I really enjoy the Pit, especially the furnaces and would love to see more quests taking a similar approach. Having NPCs to talk to inside the quest would also add a lot to the immersion factor; if you'd have to answer a riddle to pass, something lore or character related (1st opt in PoP comes to mind).

5. Agreed.

[Eistander]

Despite my forum join date, I have been here since the beginning. Admittedly, not straight through (took some breaks here and here), and have tried a lot of other MMOs out there, and the one thing that kept me coming back was a combination of 2 things.. the combat, and the customization.

For combat, players have the choice of stand-and-trade or shuck and jive.. sure, the trend was one holds, the rest do the rest of the work, but the speed of combat is what really made this stand out compared to a lot of other games I have played. Of course it uses dice rolls for its hit-or-miss system, which gives that bit of D&D feel. Which leads me to my next point.

Customization. The single thing that this game really does that people will either love, or in cases I have seen from my breaks, hate. This game makes it possible to go off-the-wall for what you want, and with enough skill, it can work. Exceptions always apply, but for the most part, unless a strict template is followed, you will rarely see mirror images of builds. Even then, if 2 players make the same build, chances are very good that they will play them differently. Not everything is equal, but at the same time, this also makes it that unlike a LONG time ago, classes were blacklisted for being a certain class (looking at rangers and rogues especially).

Of course, there is a lot to be improved as the game has been out for a long time now, and can hurt the overall duration that the game goes, but I feel strongly that the biggest hurdles will be the upcoming enhancement pass (I remember the 1st one lol), and addressing overall bugs/lag.

Just my 2cp and why I just can't help but come back.

[delduath]

Great responses guys. I'm glad people understand what I'm getting at.

To continue my point about #1 the persistant adventure, the thing is I tend to like playing most RPGs and I'll pay for them. NWN, Baldur's, Planescape, Fallout(s), Skyrim, DragonAge...
The thing is, the DDO engine is better than most and the devs seem to try and improve on it all the time. So why not release games in the similar vein as the previously mentioned, but just in the DDO environment?
I don't mind creating a new character or TRing. Gives me another opportunity to try a different class/race.

tib has a good point about puzzle quests. It's not my key interest, but the whole side of DDO having quests that aren't only combat/killing driven has a large fan-base too. A good friend of mine on DDO says he misses having more puzzle quests and is happy to spend hours figuring out puzzles and refuses to read walk-thrus. I for one, wish there was more opportunity to solve quests beyond killing everything (there IS, but tends to be few)... For the rogues, how about assassination quests or quests to steal something? Anyway, that's probably another discussion.

dolph and eis, I too have been on/off player since the beginning, but it's the engine and DnD world that keeps me coming back. I like how the game doesn't play like WoW (LoTRO does a little too much)... epic destinies are making things head in that direction more than I'm comfortable with, but it's not too bad I guess (something about cooldowns and ability trees... note to DDO: don't copy-cat for the wrong reasons, I'm playing DDO because it's DIFFERENT from WoW). The new Neverwinter online doesn't look like something I want to play either...

[kierg10]

3. Random dungeon generation
This is similar to challenges, which are partly randomized, except maybe make some that are more like a dungeon crawl. Extend the randomization or customization to map, terrain-type, goals, monsters, bosses. Provide different lengths of available quests but with no timer (5min, 10min, 30min avg run... etc). This is to the benefit of players who like some variety and surprise. I remember playing a game called 'Adventure Construction Set' back in the early 80s. Pretty much there is alot of replay value. The rewards can stay the same (e.g. specific challenge rewards, xp, leader-board rankings), but the quest can thus be mixed up a bit. I would find this entertaining on a day-to-day basis, but would still look forward to 'custom craftedquests' as well.

The problem with this one is that the dungeons are "hand crafted", as in they do not have floor tiles that they can just spawn, they design each dungeon individually, and they can place traps in weird positions because of this.

[Ilrede]

The best thing for me in DDO is character customization. I like thinking about how to build my character maybe little more, than playing him . So enhancements upgrade is the best thing, what can happens for me. A lot of new possible ways how to build my character.

Better variety of interesting quests (like Partycrashers, The Pit, Spies in house, etc) would be nice too. Just not pure hack&slash, but opportunity for using various (not fighting) skills.

[Yokido]

I disagree with the idea that new content needs to be produced at the rate you're implying, two new packs a year is a solid amount of updating, otherwise I figure their focus should be on cultivating the DDO Store to be more efficient, fixing things, and balancing the game.

If there were more reasons to run certain quests then obviously people wouldn't only run the last-made packs, by people I mean those who want the best gear ALL the time..

For an example, I look to The Restless Isles.. It is the only place where you can find;
A ring slotted raise dead clicky
A ring slotted sonic guard
A teleport clicky
A massive DR clicky
A massive regen clicky

These effects eternalized the pack, someone, somewhere will always run it for these items because they're either tough or impossible to find elsewhere.. In otherwords, apples to oranges works as a benefit in this case.

[Blue100000005]

I disagree with the idea that new content needs to be produced at the rate you're implying, two new packs a year is a solid amount of updating, otherwise I figure their focus should be on cultivating the DDO Store to be more efficient, fixing things, and balancing the game.

If there were more reasons to run certain quests then obviously people wouldn't only run the last-made packs, by people I mean those who want the best gear ALL the time..

For an example, I look to The Restless Isles.. It is the only place where you can find;
A ring slotted raise dead clicky
A ring slotted sonic guard
A teleport clicky
A massive DR clicky
A massive regen clicky

These effects eternalized the pack, someone, somewhere will always run it for these items because they're either tough or impossible to find elsewhere.. In otherwords, apples to oranges works as a benefit in this case.

If those are really found in restless isles, i need to finally break down and do them. THose are awesome things to have.

[Charononus]

1. Create "Persistant adventures"
The pay-for-content model works very well in the DnD universe. I grew up buying 'modules' in DnD such as the giants series, tomb of horrors, keep on the borderlands, drow/descent, slavelords, etc. I would explore every nook and cranny and read every detail and description. I am happy to pay for DDO content, the problem is that the way quests/instances work doesn't lend itself well to exploration and taking the time to enjoy the effort and work developers put into the content.
Sometimes I don't want to enter long quests because I know I can't finish due to real-life time constraints. There is no save button, there is no pause button, so people with RL responsibilities like children or work, may have trouble enjoying the full content. The way quests work now, you are almost encouraged to skip reading the dialog and interesting notes and details because you NEED to finish quickly.
Somehow if some adventures can be made more PERSISTANT, there may be less complaints about the rate which content comes out.
I don't think quests need to be changed, but perhaps introduce a new type of persistant, multi-part, epic adventure. I used to look forward to updates in Black Isle Studio games (e.g. Icewindale, Planescape) and the Neverwinter Nights series. A single engine is used and you could import and continue your characters. Content was 20-60 hours of gameplay and had an involving storyline. Can a similar feeling be implemented in DDO? Maybe release something like this once every 1-2 years? Have a quest that can span many days, weeks? The details of the mechanics would need to be worked out. E.g. how many people can join you in the quest? Do you prevent the character that enters the persistant quest from running other quests? Perhaps the quest will be level range limited in order to make the content creation/game-balancing easier, which I think is fine, players may need to create new characters or TR to get to the appropriate level, or just allow people to enter quests at temporarily reduced level. People may be required to enter the quest 'naked' and without previous equipment.

I think this is done thru short quests that are linked together with the story line. This is probably the best that can be done with an mmo. Being able to "save" suggests more to me that it's a single player game. I just don't think it will or can work.

2. Update the reward system beyond XP and gear by adding more customization and brag-sheets or trophies.
The challenge leader-board is a great idea but it should be fixed and improved. Monster manual is an interesting concept that can be developed as well. These are things which people can work towards that isn't just XP and gear grinding. Some things I like about LoTRO is the that you can customize the way your character looks and your guild house. DDO has armor kits, but it's not great and can be improved e.g. to be more similar to LoTRO. In LoTRO the way you can decorate your home is really interesting. DDO should create quests which drop items which allow you to create trophies to put in your home (well DDO doesn't have homes yet, but maybe that's something to add?). Trophies can be extended to be a multi-step quest and provide fun effects, maybe for example, a dragonette statue that breathes fire when you click on it... etc. All these things are bragging-rights. When people inspect your character in-game, or visit your guild-ship, you should have the option to show-off your brag-sheets and trophies. In short, there needs to be a way to create a separate reward system beyond levelling and making your character more powerful. Directing reward systems mainly to power-gaming is a self-defeating model. It is like nuclear-escalation.

I guess, maybe, for some. For me I allways wished lotro's house was just another bind point and bank tab instead of being in a seperate location. For some it will work and others won't care and will look at it as a waste of dev time.

3. Random dungeon generation
This is similar to challenges, which are partly randomized, except maybe make some that are more like a dungeon crawl. Extend the randomization or customization to map, terrain-type, goals, monsters, bosses. Provide different lengths of available quests but with no timer (5min, 10min, 30min avg run... etc). This is to the benefit of players who like some variety and surprise. I remember playing a game called 'Adventure Construction Set' back in the early 80s. Pretty much there is alot of replay value. The rewards can stay the same (e.g. specific challenge rewards, xp, leader-board rankings), but the quest can thus be mixed up a bit. I would find this entertaining on a day-to-day basis, but would still look forward to 'custom craftedquests' as well.

This would probably be cool but almost impossible. Look at shadow crypt, the paths are "random" but because of engine limitations the paths are a random selection of a few pre sets. This is the best I can see happening but I for one don't want more quests where I need to have the wiki up to run it efficiently.

4. Add "Level Independent" quests and challenges.
One reason why FPS or RTS games are popular is that basically anyone can join in and play together. Can this idea be extended to DDO? One possibility is to create level independent quests or challenges. The problem for RPGs is that experienced characters can't play with newbies due to the content being too easy or hard respectively and the penalties to rewards involved. There is a huge difference in power for the high level vs. low level character.
I like playing games with friends, but each person has a different amount of time they are able to or want to play. The problem with playing RPGs together is that it is difficult for all the friends to maintain the same level range. I have never seen this addressed very well in an RPG. Creating "Level Independent" quests would allow friends to play together, but there needs to be developed a way to relatively normalize the power of each character. A possibility is to nerf damage output, SP, HP of high level chars by a percentage, boost low level chars respectively. Or, a total rehaul can occur, where, e.g. all characters get 100HP, 100SP base, then add on their actual DDO HP and SP divided by 10. Damage is the same, X base + divide by 10. Spell cost would need to be scaled as well.
High level chars would still be 'better' than low level chars due to variety of abilities/spells and some slight stat bonus, but it is much closer. Make it such that at least everyone feels like they are contributing and can play together. Make quest rewards something that is level independent, like challenge tokens which can be redeemed for items, trophies, etc. This would also motivate lower level characters to level up to gain access to more abilities/spells.

This was sort of tried with challenges and it failed. Beyond challenges doing this would require a complete engine rewrite which would be hard to justify for turbine in cost/benefit papers.

5. DDO for DnD groups.
Why not make DDO the defacto platform to run DnD sessions. Allow content creation tools, DMing tools, perhaps as a paid service.
Find a way to integrate the DnD session content into the game play. User created content could released through some process. There was (still is?) a Neverwinter Nights community that was created by users that was very enjoyable. Allow people to experience user created content in some manner.

If this was linked so that you could play your ddo character it in user created maps it would break the game with exploits. Pull that lever and earn your 4.3 million xp for a tr life.

To keep this game alive, this is what needs to be done imo.

1)Fix bugs. Large amounts of annoying bugs may not break the game but it keeps others from recommending the game to friends in some cases. This is not good for a game that needs an influx of new players on a constant basis.

2)Add more self healing for barbs, fighters and increase pally ranger dps. Some won't like this idea but I think it will make ddo last longer, here's why. Atm there are not as many cleric/fvs that want to run with groups as there are groups that would like them. Hires fill this gap to an extent but aren't allways a good choice due to ai/bugs. If the trend of less and less divines wanting to group continues this will become more and more of a problem. This will lead to new players sometimes being frustrated as they try to learn the game especially with how the current bb system works. Giving everyone easier access to self healing options is an easier and perhaps better fix to this than trying to change game culture and make divines willing to pug.

3)Bravery Bonus, while with the current xp amounts for tr lives I like it, I think it does make things rougher on new players, leaving them less likely to continue playing as it's very hard for them to get groups outside elite even if they feel they're not ready for elite. Yes they can solo but many don't join an mmo to solo they want to group at least sometimes. My solution would be to eliminate BB and reduce tr1 from 3.2 mill to approx 2.5 million xp and tr2 on from 4.3 to 3.2 million xp. This will lower the grind as BB intended and make the game more new player friendly.