raid loot reserved

[Jitty]

What is meant by this? "All your Commendations are belong to me."?
Or "Noone will put Commendations up for roll"? Or "A lot of people will pass Commendations to one person, don't join if you have issues with this."

Since you need a lot of Comms to upgrade a single weapon, I see that not many players will put Commendations up for roll, in the first place, even in a regular run.

I agree, the "all SoS pieces reserved" post was funny. Hilaritiy ensued when there was an alternate VoN posted, and someone got a SoS Scroll in VoN5, while the other person waited for people who were willing to pass him their loot.

as in all your coms are belong to me

edit: it didn't fill

[karl_k0ch]

as in all your coms are belong to me

Oo

[deahamlet]

I once had a certain someone and most of his alts on my block list cause he ****ed me off posting every day DQ runs with torc reserved. I became friends with some of his guildies and then one day he joined a raid or quest, idk, but I couldn't see what he was typing or saying. It had been a long time since I squashed him (only person to get on that infamous list), I forgot all about him. Once I saw my block list I laughed and told him that he is a tool and made it in my special list.

I do not join item reserved raids or quests ever. I once helped a friend with some DQ runs for a torc and his LFM was "help me get a torc after XXX runs at DQ". He had run more than 100 DQs with no torc, ever. Quite a few friends and random people came to help out. Cause he wasn't demanding, just asking if people want to help out. We also could have 2-manned that thing, but more hands is more hands.

Yes, you can get frustrated. I always got the item I wanted on my arti, while helping out guild or friends on my FvS. Blasted! LOL. But that is no reason to get so greedy and selfish and demand loot. Yes, we can choose not to join those raids, of course, but we can also choose to form an opinion on such people and... avoid them.

If the server would just choose to see this behaviour as greedy dramafest and avoid those people in all endeavours... this would not be a problem for long.
That one guy... he might not be in my block list anymore but unless his friends invite me, I'd NEVER join one of his lfms for anything. That's the way to deal with it. Also offering other LFMs, perhaps not at the same time, but at other times, will offer people decent raid groups instead of those.

[Llewndyn]

For all the people coming here and complaining that "Your loot is your loot and you'll do what you want with it", how about "Their LFM post is their LFM post and they'll do what they want with it"?

This game would be so much better without the self righteous trying to tell others what to do in game. Why on Earth would people come to a forum and try to beat up on another group of player's and the way they do things is beyond me. Actually suggesting that after that group posts in the ONLY means provided in game what their expectations are for the group they are creating that you join it and actively attempt to undermine it is asinine.

When people put information in the LFM panel it makes it easier for like minded individuals to find each other. That's the point of it. Coming to the forums and attacking people in a mob like fashion for doing so will not lead were you hope it will.


Titanticus

Nevermind

[Llewndyn]

Where a lot of the "The party leader is allowed to set any loot rules they want" crowd gets tripped up is that logically it simply can't be done in a pug environment. Loot "rules" among random people can never be enforced. Making a "rule" that ultimately means nothing is just silly. If it's a guild run, the offender can easily be removed from the guild. But in a pug, people do whatever they want and demanding strangers to give up their loot bestowed to them by impartial game mechanics is not realistic.

I feel bad for the "reserved for meeeeeeee" people. I know they've probably been looking for a certain item for ages and feel they are due. But luck is luck. Ask nicely in the lfm or when the quest starts. There are a lot of nice people on the server believe it or not. I pass loot all the time that I don't really need.

Case in point: I put up a post on these very forums about the named items you can get in Spawn of Whisperdoom and has anyone ever gotten them or something to that effect. That very day I joined an elite BB run and someone remembered me from the forums or something and without me even asking everyone let me loot all 3 items (I asked over and over if they were sure and let them know what they were). Not only was it awesome, but it was a darned good group too, Whisperdoom went down faster than a who- well, it was pretty fast.

Lots of times if you ask in a non-annoying way people will bend over backwards to help you. In the above case the quest was over and the other fighter took the extra time to show me where the last item was... But here's the difference:

Scenario 1: "Hey all, if the Masterwork Rapier of Greyskull drops and you don't need it I have been looking for it and would like to roll on it if possible" = Even if they kinda want it almost 100% of the time they will pass it to you, especially if you pull your own weight.

Schmucario 2: "Plz plz plz I need blue scales K I am a trapper rouge K I will just go in hide in the beginning because I always die K I need blue scales though" and then die and later say something smart aleck because we "equally split" with 5 going one way and leave me on my own and I get searing light'd to death by a pack of giants and you not only did not kill ANYTHING but you died multiple times even while "sneaking around opening doors K" = I will inform you that you can eat doggie doo and die, but not in those words.

Scenario 3: "X is MIIINNNEEEE free chest" - You worked the entire quest, just want more chances for the item. While your approach could use some work, you did all the work and we get a free completion and vendor loot = You should be given the item

Schmucario 4: "Need guide, teamwork only, BYOH Shard of Hambuglar Surprise Reserved" I have seen a few of these, so not really making this up, if I do the work, I'm taking the item. I will LINK it so you can see it, THEN take it. I will be up front about this, though, when I join, and you can kick me if you like. To expect people to fight alongside you then pass you loot that everyone wants is almost never going to get you what you want.

If you can see no difference between these 4 scenarios, then you are the problem, baby.... it's you.

[ycheese123]

seriously, screw you guys. I like to raid but I wouldn't join these even if I didn't want the "reserved loot". And yes, I do post the same raid at the same time with no loot reservations.

If you solo a quest and are inviting people in for chests, thats fine as you did all the work. Hell, go solo citw and reserve all the loot you want, but if I do the quest/raid I'm looting anything I want to.

Completely agree! I never-ever join these groups, even if the "reserved" item is something I don't remotely want. I can't comprehend the way these people think... 'Come run a quest from beginning to end and contribute to the group, oh and if you pull Xitem you must pass it to me because I "reserved it"'. Haha... yeah, sure buddy, that makes sense. These lfms make me laugh though, so it's good for something I suppose.

[spectroum]

+1 good sir ........


I laugh at fools who try reserve stuff when we are all going to be running the quest and contributing. Just laugh at how sad they are, what more can one do. Already finished or mostly done quest and reserved loot is perfectly fine but otherwise ......... just no, heh.

heh im laughing with those lfms now too..

what happened to me tho..

there was an lfm for von5-6 with lvl range 10-14 and i joined with my lvl 14 fvs (melee build) cause i wanted a sos base and couldnt get one the previous 2 runs i did at lvl. So anyway we fill and running pre and the leader being a complete nub about...well everything kept dying and typing in the pchat phrases like "can u guys help me pull the awsome sword?","pls give me the board of shadows" and such things (these phrases are 100% real btw...he was actually saying that). He was spamming stuff like that during pre and nobody cared to apply cause ppl didnt know the pre and were actually trying to listen to me and a bard who were leading this. So we do pre and raid and that guy spams the ultimate phrase again.. "can i please have the board of shadows?" i answer "dude other ppl need it too"

and there it drops to a sorc's name..and the pchat went like this
me:"sos base for roll?"
leader:you roll xxx (d100)
sorc:"no need to roll i gave to u already"
leader:"tytyty"
(leaders name) loots sword of shadows
me:"*** are u serious now"

after that i simply stopped raiding with pugs...just guild and friend raids now and yea i totally dislike ppl who claim a certain item from a raid by any means (either by posting "xxx reserved" or trying to buy off an item during looting or w/e like that)

have fun pugs

[karl_k0ch]

after that i simply stopped raiding with pugs...just guild and friend raids now and yea i totally dislike ppl who claim a certain item from a raid by any means (either by posting "xxx reserved" or trying to buy off an item during looting or w/e like that)

But then, in some endgame-oriented guilds, you can find some players with the mindset that the person who is closest to finishing a given epic item, say, eSoS, should be the one to pull it.

[spectroum]

But then, in some endgame-oriented guilds, you can find some players with the mindset that the person who is closest to finishing a given epic item, say, eSoS, should be the one to pull it.

if its a guild raid then i dont mind that but i dont like if they force any non-guild party members to give up their loot

[karl_k0ch]

if its a guild raid then i dont mind that but i dont like if they force any non-guild party members to give up their loot

Yeah, I feel the same. It's the thin line between using and agreeing to guild loot rules, and applying them to puggies.

It's a dilemma: Either you help puggies (not only to get loot, but also to learn raids) and water some established guild rules, or you exclude puggies, and make it harder for players who are willing to learn, but not as organized to get into the 'raiding scene'.

There are some players from different guilds where I appreciate it very much that they open up their raids for puggies.

[deahamlet]

Yeah, I feel the same. It's the thin line between using and agreeing to guild loot rules, and applying them to puggies.

It's a dilemma: Either you help puggies (not only to get loot, but also to learn raids) and water some established guild rules, or you exclude puggies, and make it harder for players who are willing to learn, but not as organized to get into the 'raiding scene'.

There are some players from different guilds where I appreciate it very much that they open up their raids for puggies.

It does not seem that complicated to me. Apply guild rules to guildies and any pugs you accept, your loot is your loot. I appreciated rules like that, I wanted to access difficult raids, I got my normal chance at lootz, and a pretty much assured completion. Also ended up with a ton of raid lootz that guildies didn't want to spend points on. Never felt taken advantage of.
Not all guilds are that way. Some guilds just have general rules that you have to agree to pug or guildie (like only classes that can use the item on this life can roll on things, etc).

[karl_k0ch]

It does not seem that complicated to me. Apply guild rules to guildies and any pugs you accept, your loot is your loot.

That's not exactly fair, as stuff which is not needed by puggies is put up for roll for everyone, but stuff which is not needed by the guildie who got it is only put up for roll for/distributed amongst guildies.

[Noopleh]

if its a guild raid then i dont mind that but i dont like if they force any non-guild party members to give up their loot

Reminds me of a CITW I did, one of your guildies got upset when leader passed the gaystaff to his guild mate without rolling off.

But about your scenario, he dropped SoS, Turbine's ToS doesn't claim that he should put his stuff to roll for everyone in the raid party even though it is good manner/appreciated to do so. For all he wanted he could have left that SoS in the chest and watch everyone cry about it.

Remember, pugs aren't the same as guild runs (obviously). If you manage to keep that in mind and "expect the worse to happen in a pug" then you wouldn't get upset over small incident like that.

TL;DR: loot belongs to whoever drops it, and it's up to him to do w/e he wants with it.

[spectroum]

But about your scenario, he dropped SoS, Turbine's ToS doesn't claim that he should put his stuff to roll for everyone in the raid party even though it is good manner/appreciated to do so. For all he wanted he could have left that SoS in the chest and watch everyone cry about it.

yea i know...but incidents like these makes u black list ppl and avoid grouping with them eventually

in a citw run i was in i got sireth to my name and put it up for roll since i dont need it on any of my toons...5 ppl rolled including a rogue acrobat (i didnt notice he was an acrobat at first). He lost the roll and then i realised that he was an acrobat and he didnt have sireth and was looking for it..so what i did was say in th pchat that ill pass it to the xxx (rogue's name) simply because he is an acrobat and he has immediate use of it...ofc every1 reacted positevely when they realised that too...

now thats a fair pass and i dont mind when ppl pass stuff on such occasions (talking about btc lewt)..but when it comes to bta/btc lewt that more ppl can have use out of it and some1 gets that item either by buying it off some1 else or simply by *****ing about it makes both of those ppl black listed and unwanted by more ppl in future raids...which is what i do now too to those kind of ppl i know they did such things

behaviours like these minimize pug raid lfms and makes pugs in general unwanted by certain guilds with weekly raid schedule

[Noopleh]

yea i know...but incidents like these makes u black list ppl and avoid grouping with them eventually

in a citw run i was in i got sireth to my name and put it up for roll since i dont need it on any of my toons...5 ppl rolled including a rogue acrobat (i didnt notice he was an acrobat at first). He lost the roll and then i realised that he was an acrobat and he didnt have sireth and was looking for it..so what i did was say in th pchat that ill pass it to the xxx (rogue's name) simply because he is an acrobat and he has immediate use of it...ofc every1 reacted positevely when they realised that too...

now thats a fair pass and i dont mind when ppl pass stuff on such occasions (talking about btc lewt)..but when it comes to bta/btc lewt that more ppl can have use out of it and some1 gets that item either by buying it off some1 else or simply by *****ing about it makes both of those ppl black listed and unwanted by more ppl in future raids...which is what i do now too to those kind of ppl i know they did such things

behaviours like these minimize pug raid lfms and makes pugs in general unwanted by certain guilds with weekly raid schedule

The majority of people that pug raids don't really care about black list, or about " need before greed ", it is something I noticed. You cannot expect people to pass a class specific item to a person that actually got use for it or roll it off to those classes only had there been multiple of said class.

Behaviours like that IS selfish, I am not saying it isn't, but it's how the game is and how most scenario goes in MMO with RNG loot from corpses/chest ect.

However there is one point that I disagree with you [This section is totally off-topic]: "behaviours like these minimize pug raid lfms" Said person might get blacklisted about a guild he doesn't really care about, or doesn't have no clue about.

It won't affect him at all (Unless the situation gets blow on the forums a la shard scammer a while ago).

Now, selfish bastids don't kill the pug scene; closed groups, statics groups, channels, guilds (all those from top of my head) are what kills the pug raiding scene.
The situation has gotten worse over the years, people raid with people they are familiar with, they fill groups with friends/guildies and bye bye puggies we don't know you you can **** off.

Seeing a raid lfm that fills is quite a sight, as of the last 2 hours (too now) various raid lfms have emerged and yet none filled.

eople have lack of raid experiences and thus getting in groups is hard for them, especially when it states "KNOW IT".

And this has happened because guilds no longer take pugs and thus pugs cannot get inraid experiece (Reading a thread / looking at a youtube video is different to actual raid experience).

Edit: Broke the wall-o-text down.

[spectroum]

Now, selfish bastids don't kill the pug scene; closed groups, statics groups, channels, guilds (all those from top of my head) are what kills the pug raiding scene.
The situation has gotten worse over the years, people raid with people they are familiar with, they fill groups with friends/guildies and bye bye puggies we don't know you you can **** off.

isnt that the outcome of such behaviours tho??

[Jitty]

Now, selfish bastids don't kill the pug scene; closed groups, statics groups, channels, guilds (all those from top of my head) are what kills the pug raiding scene.

That seems very chicken and egg to me. Do groups become closed because of the selfish behaviour of some or do people become selfish because they are closed out of groups and must take what they can when they can?

[Kanadra2]

in such raids one must simply get the said item that was reserved and then leave it in chest, explain why and leave the group.

[Firesmall_at]

It is a free game. Lots of choice. Do what you want. If you want to stay disorganized and have to run a quest for mats twice as much that is your choice too. If you want to be spiteful that is not against the rules either.

Pretty funny someone tries to find players with different needs, so they don't conflict, and can maybe get a mat a little faster, and you guys go nuts. Yeah there are certain things everyone wants, and that is really a subjective thing, but there is a lot of stuff that people don't need right away. Calling dibs on an item, but saying you will give the other person what they need too, and not take it; is so terrible?

Probably because you wish you had thought of it yourself to avoid some grinding, and prevent this game becoming like a bad crack habit.

[Ballyspringer]

Off topic slightly and I realize I am keeping this dead horse of a thread alive - piggy backing on things said above here is my wall of text:

Sometimes the reason guilds don't like pugs or how they act is because of their own loot rules. Yes you read that correctly. I've heard many people comment in the game and have personally experienced situations where guild raids will mention loot rules only after PUGS were waiting for a long fill time (whether filling a spot or waiting for a guildie) AND after they are already inside of said raid, or after going through the entire raid with no loot rules mentioned at all only to see items they wanted just passed to other guildies without rolls or loot rules sprung on them as they loot.

The old addage is true - 1 negative experience will be re-told 100 times. So other people who hear the tales will only join if they need a completion or just a chance they pull something themself - and because they know they dont have a great shot at loot they will not use any resources they have (pots/scrolls), and will not step up if need be to save the raid/fill a role. They will then apply that mentality of being able to semi pike ANY guild sponsored or mainly guild raid. Which causes the guild to have meh at best pugs and not want to invite pugs next time, which then leads us to less raid LFM's posted.

Although I do not agree with that behavior as if I think if you join a raid even if that happens suck it up and do your best - just don't join that guild the next time, the bottom line is it does happen.

Also:

That's not exactly fair, as stuff which is not needed by puggies is put up for roll for everyone, but stuff which is not needed by the guildie who got it is only put up for roll for/distributed amongst guildies.

I agree 100% with that, the whole any loot pulled by guildies only goes to guildies but pug loot can go to everyone is an absolute ****** move. If it's in the LFM that guild loot only goes to guildies, or if it's mentioned to each and every pug AS they join then it's all good as you know it ahead of time and can chose to stay or not, but when a guild waits for the raid to fill to mention it (which even for guild raids can take a bit at times) or they wait until everyone is in the raid before they mention that -****** move. I've had that one sprung on me a couple of times both mid raid and as we were about to loot, and I will never join those guild's raids again. I did my role and i did it well each time as I was already there and comitted, but in the back of my head was a serious screw you guys.