raid loot reserved

[Aelowynne]

For all the people coming here and complaining that "Your loot is your loot and you'll do what you want with it", how about "Their LFM post is their LFM post and they'll do what they want with it"?

This game would be so much better without the self righteous trying to tell others what to do in game. Why on Earth would people come to a forum and try to beat up on another group of player's and the way they do things is beyond me. Actually suggesting that after that group posts in the ONLY means provided in game what their expectations are for the group they are creating that you join it and actively attempt to undermine it is asinine.

When people put information in the LFM panel it makes it easier for like minded individuals to find each other. That's the point of it. Coming to the forums and attacking people in a mob like fashion for doing so will not lead were you hope it will.


Titanticus

[PNellesen]

The same thing again?

Yeah, a lot of these kinds of LFMs seem to have popped up on Orien in the past few weeks. Surprisingly, they never seem to fill

[laniza]

Yeah, a lot of these kinds of LFMs seem to have popped up on Orien in the past few weeks. Surprisingly, they never seem to fill

You did not read my post, did you?

[Vellrad]

Yeah, a lot of these kinds of LFMs seem to have popped up on Orien in the past few weeks. Surprisingly, they never seem to fill

TBH I prefer them than ship invite plz or trading junk

[Gunga]

I love that people are actually reserving items in the LFM as if they have the ability to do anything about it.

[LordMond63]

Perhaps I'm just not comprehending the outrage here.

Don't like the loot rules being outlined in a particular LFM? Don't join that LFM. 'Problem' solved.

Or am I missing something here (entirely possible)?

[psykopeta]

Join the group, loot the "reserved" item anyways.

that's what i do, at least if i need the item lol

if wanna reserve loot, do it with guild/friends, using lfm for that is insulting to the players

[SemiraLynn]

Where a lot of the "The party leader is allowed to set any loot rules they want" crowd gets tripped up is that logically it simply can't be done in a pug environment. Loot "rules" among random people can never be enforced. Making a "rule" that ultimately means nothing is just silly. If it's a guild run, the offender can easily be removed from the guild. But in a pug, people do whatever they want and demanding strangers to give up their loot bestowed to them by impartial game mechanics is not realistic.

I feel bad for the "reserved for meeeeeeee" people. I know they've probably been looking for a certain item for ages and feel they are due. But luck is luck. Ask nicely in the lfm or when the quest starts. There are a lot of nice people on the server believe it or not. I pass loot all the time that I don't really need.

[zwiebelring]

I don't like the command in it. People forgot being polite and how to ask for help. I will join and help, but I won't join and pay a toll just because I was lucky.

Be nice and ask people to help you, but always keep in mind, that it may not happen. Real life's natural 5% fail chance I guess.

All raids can bee soloed on Orien, as proven by Shat. Why don't those reservers buy raid timer bypasses and just solo them?

So much for the gossip talk. In general I keep to my credo: don't like it, don't join.

[karl_k0ch]

I don't like the command in it. People forgot being polite and how to ask for help.

This.


There's a thin line between asking for help to get a certain item, and demanding items to be passed. Both have, if successful, the same effect, but one is polite, and the other one is not.

Personally, I don't like to join groups where someone demands what happens with my loot, but I'm open to helping players get what they are grinding for.

[Noopleh]

I don't like the command in it. People forgot being polite and how to ask for help. I will join and help, but I won't join and pay a toll just because I was lucky.

Be nice and ask people to help you, but always keep in mind, that it may not happen. Real life's natural 5% fail chance I guess.

All raids can bee soloed on Orien, as proven by Shat. Why don't those reservers buy raid timer bypasses and just solo them?

So much for the gossip talk. In general I keep to my credo: don't like it, don't join.

No offence Wanzer, but that's the most ******** thing I saw you say, ever.

[zwiebelring]

No offense, but... is an offense. I can deal with that. Does not change my mind, though.

[karl_k0ch]

No offense, but... is an offense. I can deal with that. Does not change my mind, though.

If you think it through completely: If the above post is the most ******** thing you have said (in comparison to all the other things you said), everything else must be even more awesome than your post above.

[JustMe_ca]

In the end, all you can do with the "reserved x" posts in LFMs is to not join. If that raid happens to be what you really want to do, then post your own - but I wouldn't put something like "your loot is your loot" in the quest description.


And any loot left in the chest at the end of a raid, belongs to my bard or R

[laniza]

In the end, all you can do with the "reserved x" posts in LFMs is to not join. If that raid happens to be what you really want to do, then post your own - but I wouldn't put something like "your loot is your loot" in the quest description.


And any loot left in the chest at the end of a raid, belongs to my bard or R

Well I did put it



I really don't care what people do with their lfm (it is their post after all they can do whatever they want with it)...... However the problem that I came upon is that when I make my own post because I do want the item reserved and do not want to be a jerk joining the raid and then looting it despite the party leader wishes, I cant fill (see my first post in this thread) or I fill mostly with people that want the said item thus they choose my post over the other post. As the result I get a group where most of the people want the same item I do!

Example: the same happened today, the same post, the same deal except that this time I did fill....Guess what classes chose to join my party? Hint: here is a screenshot of the first 4 that joined:



I did not take the screenshot of the full party but overall I had at least 7 casters ( I remember 4PM, 2sorc, 1cleric, there may be were more....). Guess how many people would roll if the said item drops (if it actually exists )? At least 7 plus people that would roll for their alts....I did not look who joined other group tbh but if we are to assume that people will play by the party leader rules he probably got less then 7 casters in his party, and on top of that the item is already "reserved" for him anyways (assuming it actually works)...

Overall, it seems that if you follow the rule "Do not like the rules, make your own post" you will end up either short-manning it (=less hands on the chest) or getting a party where most members are after the "reserved" item too.

Do you see where I am going with this? - "Make your own post" does not seem to be such a great solution after all! On top of that not everyone feels comfortable hosting their own raids (shy, new to the game.....) so what should they do? Join but be a jerk and loot the item anyways? Join and loose the item he/she actually wanted if it drops? Wait till someone else will host the same raid but with no restrictions (works especially great for casual gamers with restricted play time)?



On the bright side I do believe that this is just a temporal thing happening on Orien and soon the fashion to host "raid loot reserved" raids will die out... Until then there is finally something to talk about on Orien forums!



Just my 2cents



P.S. English is hard! :P

[JustMe_ca]

Do you see where I am going with this? - "Make your own post" does not seem to be such a great solution after all! On top of that not everyone feels comfortable hosting their own raids (shy, new to the game.....) so what should they do? Join but be a jerk and loot the item anyways? Join and loose the item he/she actually wanted if it drops? Wait till someone else will host the same raid but with no restrictions (works especially great for casual gamers with restricted play time)?

On the bright side I do believe that this is just a temporal thing happening on Orien and soon the fashion to host "raid loot reserved" raids will die out... Until then there is finally something to talk about on Orien forums!

Just my 2cents

P.S. English is hard! :P

You are right that posting your own raid may not have the result you want either. In this case, I am pretty sure I know who posted the other raid - and a good proportion of the people that joined his group was his friends helping him. (so they likely won't have joined your raid anyways).

If i am right, this "item x reserved for y" is also a response to another behavior in raids which is annoying - when someone puts up an item for roll - then they make restrictions on who can roll after a person who they don't think "deserves" the item has the highest roll. The problem with this behavior isn't the fact that the person who is putting stuff up for roll puts restrictions on the item - it is putting up restrictions AFTER announcing the item is for roll (without restrictions) and people have rolled.

In the end - you can never win

[Crann]

Good thing about LFM's......you don't have to join them.

These particular LFM's don't detract anything from the other listings.....so why care if they want to let in a few other players that are looking for loot not claimed?

Would you feel better if they just shortmanned, and never posted?

[Qezuzu]

Recently I was looking for the seal of an epic item. On my LFM I stated that you should not join if you also want that seal, because I'd rather people who would pass it to me join so that I could increase my own chances of getting it.

There's nothing complex about this. Don't join LFM's if the leader explicitly states "I want this item so I'd rather my party members not also want it."

[Jitty]

Good thing about LFM's......you don't have to join them.

These particular LFM's don't detract anything from the other listings.....so why care if they want to let in a few other players that are looking for loot not claimed?

Would you feel better if they just shortmanned, and never posted?

To answer this, in general, yes I would feel better if they shortmanned and never posted see paragraph 5 and 6 for why.

Recently I was looking for the seal of an epic item. On my LFM I stated that you should not join if you also want that seal, because I'd rather people who would pass it to me join so that I could increase my own chances of getting it.

There's nothing complex about this. Don't join LFM's if the leader explicitly states "I want this item so I'd rather my party members not also want it."

Both of these posts are reasonable and I think I understand where you are coming from. I'll try to explain the issue I have with this. It's not one or two posts every now and then that have reserved loot, but more that is seems to be becoming a trend recently. Last week, there were about 3 days in a row that there was more than one lfm up at a time with popular raid items reserved. Things like all sos pieces, torcs, Commendations from CITW (these were the glaring ones there were more that I didn't really take note of).

You can see from most of the responses in this thread that most people would just join the post and loot the item if it droped for them. I couldn't do that because that turns me into the villian. If I did that, I would have joined a group with an understanding of the rules and didn't follow them. Thats kind of lame imo.

So why would this trend bother me? I don't have to join, I can post my own. I have an esos I have several torcs across several characters. I say this not to brag about my swag, but to illustrate that it's not loot envy, jelousy or the fact that someone else thought of it first. The problem I have is a long term, subtle one.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice that there have been fewer PUG posts over the past month or so than in the past. I'm sure this is only temporary because of the holidays. Again, not a problem for me I often short man raids. In fact, the last time I posted the same raid at the same time as a reserved loot run, I finished a pre raid, raid, and another raid before the other post had filled or started.

What about the freshly capped first life character of a person that started playing not too long ago. They could join my raid, which may not fill but will complete. Keep in mind that I say will complete because I expect everyone to have a level of gear that means they can contribute to what we are doing. I would expect everyone to have a dr breaking weapon without needing an artie because we might not have one and I wouldn't wait long for one. I'm not a nazi about it though if we have an artie I dont particularly care if you need them to buff you to break dr and I routinely take people who are doing a raid for the first time and I try to explain the different mechanics. If my post were the only one for a particular raid, it would likely fill and there would be no real issue with the gearing of one or two people.

The freshly capped first lifer could join the loot reserved post. That seems a little odd to me. The person most in need of a lot of gear is shut out of getting some of it. Also, if they do join posts like this, they are likely to think that this it's normal behaviour to have minions in the raid getting your loot for you. So that is the behaviour that they will learn and mimic. So they start to post raids like that. The cycle replicates, the behaviour is perpetuated.

So, someone that is newish to the game, and wants a specific item posts "all your torc are belong to me" people don't join. The people that do, also want the torc and will ignore the fact the leader thinks they are getting one if it drops. The torc drops, someone loots, the leader rages. What is that new player thinking? Two things, the server is dead because nobody is joining the group. When people do join, they are giant jerks who take "their" loot. How long is that person going to stick around playing ddo? Even if they join a guild and start plundering regularly, they will probably have a low opinion of DDO players in general.

So, here is the rub of the problem. Antisocial behaviour discourages newer players and is therefore bad for the long term health of the server. I am one of the seemingly rare DDO players that actually thinks this game is pretty good. I want it to succeed and be here for years to come. The best way to acheive this is to have a large player base that interacts with eachother without too much friction and trying to dictate the actions of strangers invites drama and friction.It's been shown in this thread that many people don't care and drama and friction will give them some lols.

BTW I can see it now that people may read the above and say that I am the one trying to dictate the actions of others by setting loot rules and imposing them on people I will not be in a group with. I thought about this point for some time and have come to the conclusion that an attempt to influence others is not synonymous with an attempt to control others.

[karl_k0ch]

Things like ... Commendations from CITW.

What is meant by this? "All your Commendations are belong to me."?
Or "Noone will put Commendations up for roll"? Or "A lot of people will pass Commendations to one person, don't join if you have issues with this."

Since you need a lot of Comms to upgrade a single weapon, I see that not many players will put Commendations up for roll, in the first place, even in a regular run.

I agree, the "all SoS pieces reserved" post was funny. Hilaritiy ensued when there was an alternate VoN posted, and someone got a SoS Scroll in VoN5, while the other person waited for people who were willing to pass him their loot.