My attempt at a pure Melee/Healing Druid

[Zachski]

The idea being to forego splashing any classes and instead sticking to being a pure druid, with all of the spell benefits this entails.

I know what you're thinking. "Why?"

Well, to be honest, I don't like how every melee druid build I've seen has been heavily splashed into Monk (Which I don't want to do because of the decrease in damage die -- and I don't want to grind out three monk lives just to be able to play a druid beast) or Fighter and Rogue.

Now, I know that as a pure druid, my melee capabilities aren't going to be as great as if I had splashed some other classes. I'm aware of this. Which is why I try to make up for it with healing capability, if nothing else.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Pure Melee Druid
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Druid) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 1568 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 5
Will: 19

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 16                   18
Dexterity             8                  8                    8
Constitution         14                 14                   14
Intelligence          8                  8                    8
Wisdom               18                 23                   25
Charisma              8                  8                    8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    10
Bluff                 1                    10
Concentration         6                    25
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  4                     7
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  4                    11
Listen                4                     7
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  4                     7
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                0                     4
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf


Level 3 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 4 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 5 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear


Level 6 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 8 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf


Level 9 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 10 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 11 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear


Level 12 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Fire Elemental


Level 14 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)


Level 15 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 16 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)


Level 17 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Water Elemental


Level 18 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 19 (Druid)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)


Level 20 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Enhancement: Druid Natural Adept
Enhancement: Druid Aggravate I
Enhancement: Druid Aggravate II
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature I
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature II
Enhancement: Druid Essence of the Shrike I
Enhancement: Druid Essence of the Shrike II
Enhancement: Druid Hide of the Crocodile I
Enhancement: Druid Hide of the Crocodile II
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior I
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior II
Enhancement: Druid Reaving Roar
Enhancement: Druid Shifting Rake I
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter I
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter II
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter III
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life II
Enhancement: Druid Zenith of Life I
Enhancement: Druid Zenith of Life II
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus I
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus II
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life IV
Enhancement: Druid Strength I
Enhancement: Druid Strength II
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom I
Enhancement: Druid Toughness I
Enhancement: Druid Toughness II

21: +1 Wisdom, not sure what feat yet. Maybe Greater Cleave?
24: Not sure what feat yet

Note that the enhancements are liable to change as this character levels up. I took Reaving Roar here because it sounds really useful at low levels, but the... other one will probably be more useful at higher levels. Just consider that particular enhancement Schrodinger's Enhancement for now.

As far as skills go, I'm considering getting rid of Bluff and getting UMD instead -- I don't yet fully understand how Druid works so I don't know if Bluff triggers need to be successful for the purpose of the relative enhancement.

Now then, I am definitely looking for advice, with only one stipulation: I want to remain a pure druid. Sorry for that.

[Dunklerlindwurm]

As a melee/healing Druid i would definitely take the Quicken feat.
You will be often getting hit and loose your concentration check no matter how high your concentration is.

Empower Healing Spell would also be very useful since you can use it on some Healing abilitys of Epic Destinies where you cant use Maximize on (For example Rejuvenation Cocoon)


And keep Reaving Roar! Its very strong even in late game. The damage hits a single enemy several times in a row it seems.

[Zachski]

Okay, I'll replace the second Natural Fighting, sorta shifting everything forward.

[smeggy1384]

You'd definitely want empower healing, but you'll also want shield and improved shield mastery for more double strike.

If at all possible keep bluff, wolf abilities that trigger it allow bluff ranks to figure into the DC.. at least that's the description. As a wolf you want to sneak attack, and it can be the difference in triggering effects like the freezing bite.

2 points from str to add to int so you can keep your bluff skill would be a wise move, look how much wolf sneak attack plus the prestige add to damage vs +1 damage and +1 to hit from str.

[unbongwah]

For comparison's sake, here's my pure HE wolf druid build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Druid) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 1546 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 8
Will: 21

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             13                    15
Dexterity            13                    15
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               18                    29
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

Level 1 (Druid)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 2 (Druid)


Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 5 (Druid)


Level 6 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 7 (Druid)


Level 8 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 9 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 10 (Druid)


Level 11 (Druid)


Level 12 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Druid)


Level 14 (Druid)


Level 15 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 16 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 17 (Druid)


Level 18 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Druid)


Level 20 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Druid Natural Adept
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature I
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature II
Enhancement: Druid Celerity
Enhancement: Druid Essence of the Shrike I
Enhancement: Druid Essence of the Shrike II
Enhancement: Druid Fatal Harrier
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior I
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior II
Enhancement: Druid Shifting Rake I
Enhancement: Druid Shifting Rake II
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter I
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter II
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Hoarfrost I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Hoarfrost II
Enhancement: Druid Zenith of Hoarfrost I
Enhancement: Druid Zenith of Hoarfrost II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost IV
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life IV
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom I
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom II
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom III
Enhancement: Druid Toughness I

Rog dilly adds +3D6 SA but costs me a feat (duh). For epic feats I was planning on Natural Fighting x2; I can swap Toughness for another meta (e.g., Emp Heal to boost Heal, Rejuvenate, and Cocoon) if I feel I need it and can spare the HPs. Debating whether Max should be taken sooner. Might also decide to shift some APs into fire or electricity for those times when cold doesn't cut it. [I think it's a mistake to ignore caster DPS on a pure druid, esp. wolf builds who will get a steady stream of temp SPs from Shrike to help power them.] Oh, and I will definitely take Reaving Roar while leveling, because it really is wonderfully overpowered at lvl 7. I would like to squeeze in Power Atk or Precision, but I'm not sure what I'm willing to drop to get one.

[wildbynature]

I'm actually in the middle of a Druid life very similar to this one. I have a couple suggestions based on how she's playing at the moment.

Great cleave---It's worth it. Spamable cleave/greatcleave and reaving roar equals beast dps (even late game so I hear)

Empower heal instead of maximize--your best heal spells only allow empower heal as a metamagic. Maximize will do more for firewall/ice storm damage

Shield mastery feats--I'm on the fence about this one. I like the synergy of the extra double strike with the natural fighting double strike, but I've run into instances where I really liked the effects on a two handed weapon but couldn't justify dropping my shield. I can't use my fanion, and other than crafted devotion or maybe vertigo (something I could put on another weapon) I just don't see that much use in the shield. The up side is that by 24 when I get my last natural fighting feat, I'll have close to 50% double strike.

Incidentally, you can pretty much use whatever weapon you want to while in form. You only get the enchantments on it so proficientcy doesn't matter when you're in form.

Reaving roar--this is the best. Like better than munchos when you're craving salt.

I was doing a lot of meleeing in wolf form up to 12. Now, I've seen more use out of dire bear form. I'm a little more tanky and I can intim, stand in a firewall, cleave, greatcleave, and reaving roar while my rogue friends poke things in the behind and wonder who Miss Adventure is and how she gets so many kills.

Intim is much more useful to me than bluff. You don't need to make your bluff check to use your wolf abilities, but it does help you get extra Sneek attack die. I've been taking a lot of agro so far this life, so the dire bear form works better for me while grouping. When I solo, I usually stay in wolf form for the speed and (perceived) slightly better dps.

Your hot spells really are amazingly fun, and with two lines of toughness enhancements, I can buff myself to 400+ hp at level 12 as well as dps and hold agro better than many barbarians my level. Not every barb I play with is an optimal build, but it's good to know where your build ranks.

I've really enjoyed my Druid life so far. I also went pure and made many of the same choices you did, and I hope you like the build as much as I have.

[UrbanPyro]

Cleave, Great Cleave, and Overwhelming Critical aren't worth it as a purebred. Druids are too feat starved to do it, and you can easily make up for the loss of dps in Fury of the Wild. Primal Avatar if you're going hybrid because Rejuvenation Cacoon is an superb heal, and Nature's Fury will give you +1 to your crit profile.

If you're considering half-elf, the Rogue Dilettante can be worth while. I don't like recommending it for a first life character due to more stat and feat requirements. I prefer twisting in Grim Precision (from Shadowdancer), since it doesn't require a feat slot. Get an item with Improved Deception (Golden Guile, etc). It's not as good as Precision for landing critical hits on bosses (-10% less than Grim Precision), but it's consistent enough to get your sneak attacks off.

[smeggy1384]

For comparison's sake, here's my pure HE wolf druid build:

Might also decide to shift some APs into fire or electricity for those times when cold doesn't cut it. [I think it's a mistake to ignore caster DPS on a pure druid, esp. wolf builds who will get a steady stream of temp SPs from Shrike to help power them.] Oh, and I will definitely take Reaving Roar while leveling, because it really is wonderfully overpowered at lvl 7. I would like to squeeze in Power Atk or Precision, but I'm not sure what I'm willing to drop to get one.

Not a fan of the druid fire spells, at least until you get fire elemental form. I'd go with lighting, i believe the 4th level spell is the one i am using this life. In elites so far up to lvl 15 its 400-650 damage, or an insta kill on a melee or caster enemy (though archers evade it most of the time, but those i drop with one Greater Creeping Cold), which also happens to trigger reaving roar. You throw a firewall down and in comes someone with a two hander.. As your wall burns mobs down glancing blows finish em off, no reaving roar.

I've been going this life as a druid caster, so i took both max and empower, but usually only have the better on (empower heal too, LOVE regenerate with it), next life i will be going pure caster and avoiding wolf form once i get fire ele. I kind of dread this, but want to give it a serious try before moving to another class.

[unbongwah]

BTW, thanks to wax_on_wax_off for this tactic: when fighting mobs solo, lay down Sleet Storm+FOM+Ice Storm; Sleet blinds them so you get your sneak atks, FOM makes you immune to Sleet's effects, and Ice Storm brings the AoE DPS. When Reaving Roar triggers, it's typically all over for that mob - time to move onto the next.

[hermespan]

Now then, I am definitely looking for advice, with only one stipulation: I want to remain a pure druid. Sorry for that.

A pure druid can't melee well and heal (others) well.

The two capabilities are mutually exclusive.

You have to be in elemental form to cast fast enough to be a useful healer. In elemental form you can't melee well unless you went TWF, which means you gave up empower, maximize, quicken etc.

You can't heal effectively in animal form because of cool-down penalties.

To do anything well with druid you need to specialize. If you specialize you need to pick healing or melee. You can't do both well on a first life. As soon as you start trading melee feats for casting feats, your melee dps begins to suffer badly and it's not super duper (base) dps to begin with.

A pure rogue dilly helf druid melee build with maxed out doublestrike, greensteel, bluff, a bluff pet, and a complete set of weapons for any situation is competitive top 20% dps with nearly unmatched (outside of monk) survivability as long as you have healing amp in the 60s and the right EDs setup. You can heal yourself through blades in elite shroud solo fighting Harry, solo tank self heal against Sully or Horoth on hard, and that's with a bad feat decision that led to a loss of 6% dps that Fred wouldn't fix.

You have to play to the strengths of the class and take full advantage of all relevant game mechanics.

I'm not sure why this isn't Good Enough lol. I'll see you back up at level 25 with my gimpy melee druid at full strength dominating kill counts, except against monks with everything is nothing, the rare occasionally properly built paladin or assassin rogue, and eSoS barbarians, and out-surviving all of them except the monks.

**** you monks!

Get the gear
Build for max dps (helf, rogue dilly, bluff pet, max doublestrike, lit II greensteel, +10 seeker, 42 STR)
focus on wolf form, tag-team bluff as though you require it to breathe.

Then talk to me about how druids lack dps.

[Zachski]

So wait, pure druids can actually be excellent DPS?

The only reason I put any focus into healing at all was because I thought I had to in order to make up for not splashing.

This changes things.

[unbongwah]

Anybody who thinks a pure or mostly-pure druid can't make a strong DPS build just doesn't know how to build `em. For me the trick is taking advantage of melee and caster DPS. The build I posted should have 10d6 SA (3d6 HE rogue + 3d6 Winter Wolf + 2d6 NW II + 2d6 capstone) and +32% doublestrike; Shrike II provides 20 temp SPs every time you crit (essentially 20% of hits once you have IC:B) to help power your animal-form abilities & spells; Reaving Roar is a free AoE which procs every time you kill something. It all adds up...

[Zachski]

The only reason I even thought that was because I couldn't find a single pure druid melee build. Either they were casters, or they had splashed level of fighter, rogue, or mostly Monk.

I'm quite happy with this :3 And I'll even start over as a Half Elf for Rogue Dilly, since I don't have to worry about healing much anymore.

[UrbanPyro]

Anybody who thinks a pure or mostly-pure druid can't make a strong DPS build just doesn't know how to build `em. For me the trick is taking advantage of melee and caster DPS. The build I posted should have 9d6 SA (3d6 HE rogue + 2d6 Winter Wolf + 2d6 NW II + 2d6 capstone) and +26% doublestrike; Shrike II provides 20 temp SPs every time you crit (essentially 20% of hits once you have IC:B) to help power your animal-form abilities & spells; Reaving Roar is a free AoE which procs every time you kill something. It all adds up...

Ftfy.

[unbongwah]

10d6 SA (3d6 HE rogue + 3d6 Winter Wolf + 2d6 NW II + 2d6 capstone) and +32% doublestrike

Sorry, I goofed, it's only 9d6 SA (thanks UrbanPyro) and 26% doublestike: 8% from ISM + (6% * 3) from NF x3 = 26%. I was thinking it was 8% per NF feat. But you can also add more thru gear.

I'm quite happy with this :3 And I'll even start over as a Half Elf for Rogue Dilly, since I don't have to worry about healing much anymore.

The only thing I don't like about druids is how expensive their caster-DPS enhs are; once you have all the Nature's Warrior pre-reqs etc. out of the way, you only have enough APs for 2 or maybe 3 lines. Cold is an obvious choice for a wolf build, IMHO, since they get Cold Breath; plus a few cold spells like Ice Storm & Creeping Cold have no DCs. Beyond that, it's a toss-up; I went heal-specced in the build I posted, but if you wanted to be more DPS-focused, electricity is another good choice.

The other drawback to pure druid is feat shortage; you can see I focused on melee (particularly upping my doublestrike) with only a couple of meta feats. But I still didn't have room for, say, Power Atk/Cleave/GC; probably save that for splashed druids w/more feats.

[hermespan]

Quicken is a mistake, get power attack.

Here's why:
1. you can't trade quicken out at Fred on a druid. It's bugged (at least as of last week on my character). You'll need to live with this decision til you reincarnate.
2. as long as you pump concentration, quicken isn't necessary on a melee build. If you happen to miss a mass regen/greater vigor, ideally the group's healer takes up the slack. Even in end game before reincarnating, I rarely missed heals.
3. You are building a melee toon. Quicken vs. Power Attack? I'm surprised there's even a consideration for quicken outside of the fact that reincarnate takes 10 seconds to cast. Even with quicken it's still too slow. You aren't going to get someone up in the middle of a tough fight without dying yourself from getting beat on while you are casting it and defenseless.

I understand the value of quicken for no fail spell casting, but this is a melee build, and there is no viable melee build that doesn't use power attack. It's a huge amount of additional damage.

Doublestrike adds up like so:
6% item
18% 3x NF
8% SM/ISM
--
32% full time standing

Celerity
60% (currently bugged, should be 50%) 15 seconds/5 minute cooldown

Unyielding Sentinel
Lightning Mace +15% doublestrike with Club, Greatclub, Heavy Mace, Light Mace, Morningstar, or Quarterstaff, 6 seconds per use/ 12 second cooldown
can be twisted. very expensive twist but worth it.

Shadow Dancer
Shadow Training IV +3% profane bonus to doublestrike for 1 minute/5 day
cannot be twisted as it's innate

[unbongwah]

1. you can't trade quicken out at Fred on a druid. It's bugged (at least as of last week on my character). You'll need to live with this decision til you reincarnate.

Fred is just effed six ways to Sunday, AFAICT.

2. as long as you pump concentration, quicken isn't necessary on a melee build. If you happen to miss a mass regen/greater vigor, ideally the group's healer takes up the slack. Even in end game before reincarnating, I rarely missed heals.

On my build, Quicken is primarily for slow-cast spells like Sleet Storm or Heal. Caster DPS is just as important as melee DPS to me; so is self-healability, actually. If anything, I'd swap Toughness for PA (or maybe Precision) once I had enough HP gear.

Doublestrike adds up like so:
6% item

What gear slot do you suggest using?

Unyielding Sentinel
Lightning Mace +15% doublestrike with Club, Greatclub, Heavy Mace, Light Mace, Morningstar, or Quarterstaff, 6 seconds per use/ 12 second cooldown
can be twisted. very expensive twist but worth it.

That's an LD ability, not US. And does it work w/animal-form atks? My impression was those LD abilities only worked w/weapons; and since animal atks count as unarmed, I thought they didn't work. If they do, I'll have to revise my expectations.

[Dolphious]

Quicken is a mistake, get power attack.

Here's why:
1. you can't trade quicken out at Fred on a druid. It's bugged (at least as of last week on my character). You'll need to live with this decision til you reincarnate.
2. as long as you pump concentration, quicken isn't necessary on a melee build. If you happen to miss a mass regen/greater vigor, ideally the group's healer takes up the slack. Even in end game before reincarnating, I rarely missed heals.
3. You are building a melee toon. Quicken vs. Power Attack? I'm surprised there's even a consideration for quicken outside of the fact that reincarnate takes 10 seconds to cast. Even with quicken it's still too slow. You aren't going to get someone up in the middle of a tough fight without dying yourself from getting beat on while you are casting it and defenseless.

I've been thinking about this on a planned wolf druid, and I was wondering if you run much epic elite, and if you still think this is the case. My experience with my (since TRed) elemental druid was that quicken felt pretty pointless until I ran EEs. At that point the damage numbers are so high that you can't really count on concentration, and the damage can come in so fast that a quickened heal is the only way to save yourself.

I'm still debating it because wolf druid 20 is so feat starved, but the option for that super fast quickened heal is just so nice in EE that I'm having a hard time giving it up.


RE: OP
I'd consider replacing your cleave feats with the shield mastery feats. You're going to want to carry a shield (probably a wall of wood endgame) anyway, and that 8% doubstrike is probably about the same as the cleave DPS increase, and you get a "free" 10 PRR, (and another 15, for 25 with legendary shield mastery twisted).

And for that "extra" feat I would recommend spell focus: evocation, because it's required to get both the magistar and draconic envocation DC abilities (+3 and +2 respectively), for a total of +6 evocation DC. You'll want those bonuses in order to get your earthquake to land endgame.

[Zachski]

Bringing this back up because I'm going to be following unbongwah's build and I wouldn't mind some easier access to this information.

Actually, the reason that I didn't take Shield Mastery for the original build was that I honestly didn't know that its doublestrike would carry over to animal form.

I love wolf form. I love that I can equip any weapon I want, regardless of proficiency, and not be neutered for accuracy.

I also love my 2d6 sneak attack at level 2 XD

[Zipwire]

I love wolf form. I love that I can equip any weapon I want, regardless of proficiency, and not be neutered for accuracy.

Is there really no penalty for using a weapon you are not proficient with while in wolf form?
The notice comes up when I equipped one and I assumed there was a penalty?
Is this a bug or wai?