Clonk build advice

[bigdmag]

This is my take on my Clonk build, go easy on me guys its my 1st one


I took Wizard for the free feat and opens up 1 level of force line enhancements : that's +40 spell power to Blade Barriers so that along with the free feat seems like a nice bump.

I took much diplomacy so I should be able to shed aggro when it happens, will be able to get it into the low 40's without any gear so I think it will work more often than not.

I took Arcane initiate feat instead of spell focus evocation for obvious reasons; it gives a +1 to all DC's instead of just evocation and Ill have a few Magic missiles to throw out .


BB should be quite nasty and I think I can get my strength to about 26 or so, and with bard in group I shouldn't have to much trouble hitting either. I can always take of power attack for those high AC mobs.


Taken most of the healing enhancements and with empower healing on, should have nice mass cures to go along with RS bursts and aura.

Saves are decent, wish I could get my reflex up a little more but had no room for lightning reflex. Guess I can try to get the gear with the +10 reflex on it, then I can switch to them when I really need that reflex save.

3 past life wizard feats so my spell penetration should be ok, so i only took 1 tier of the enhancements. Just didn't have the room for anymore without giving up stuff I wanted.


Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Monk / 17 Cleric / 1 Wizard)
Hit Points: 320
Spell Points: 1268

BAB: 13/13/18/23
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 12
Will: 23


Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 13 16
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 15 18
Intelligence 9 12
Wisdom 15 26
Charisma 14 20

Tomes Used
+1 Supreme Tome used at level 3
+2 Supreme Tome used at level 7
+3 Supreme Tome used at level 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 21
Bluff 2 5
Concentration 4 26
Diplomacy 4 30
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 5
Heal 2 10
Hide 2 4
Intimidate 2 5
Jump 1.5 3
Listen 2 8
Move Silently 2 4
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 1
Search -1 1
Spot 2 8
Swim 1 3
Tumble 2.5 4
Use Magic Device n/a n/a


Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell

Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Initiate

Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 5-6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell

Level 7-9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell

Level 10-11 (Cleric)

Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack

Level 13-15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell

Level 16-18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell

Level 19-20 (Cleric)

Enhancements
Cleric Radiant Servant II
Human Adaptability Charisma I
Human Improved Recovery II
Racial Toughness II
Improved Diplomacy IV
Improved Heal II
Cleric Prayer of Life III
Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Force Manipulation I
Cleric Life Magic IV
Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Cleric Charisma II
Cleric Wisdom III
Cleric Divine Might II
Cleric Divine Vitality I
Cleric Improved Turning I
Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III


Take a look guys and let me know if you see any glaring weaknesses

Also at 1st level, for some reason it says monk feat (toughness), it is actually the human feat bonus, not sure why it bugged out like that.

[SealedInSong]

I'd never considered the force enhancements from the wizard splash--clever.

I'm personally probably going to opt for 18/1/1 of some sort when radiant servant III comes out in the enhancement pass, but this looks like a fun and effective build. Good job.

[Raoull]

As a long time clonk player.... fine idea, but needs a few tweaks.

First off, you don't need Extend. It is nice (especially for DF/DM), but not needed, and there are plenty of other good feats you'll want.

Secondly... your melee needs help. Not much though, a wis based clonk can still do fine in melee (although almost all of your damage comes from wraps, ToD rings and sneak gear... so you are more gear dependent). But you definitely want 2 things. GTWF, so you attack faster, and Stunning Fist. You have no idea how good Stunning Fist is... you Stunning may mean more in a party than the actual melee damage you do.

Power Attack, while good, isn't as good as GTWF, so if you want to keep the same caster/melee combo you currently are attempting, PA and Extend can be dropped for GTWF and Fist.


So... if you want to do everything.... change up those two feats and you're in pretty good shape. But if you haven't played a divine a bunch, I might recommend starting with a caster or a melee... the multitasking is really quite hard to pull off.

[DrakHar]

As a long time clonk player.... fine idea, but needs a few tweaks.

First off, you don't need Extend. It is nice (especially for DF/DM), but not needed, and there are plenty of other good feats you'll want.

Secondly... your melee needs help. Not much though, a wis based clonk can still do fine in melee (although almost all of your damage comes from wraps, ToD rings and sneak gear... so you are more gear dependent). But you definitely want 2 things. GTWF, so you attack faster, and Stunning Fist. You have no idea how good Stunning Fist is... you Stunning may mean more in a party than the actual melee damage you do.

Power Attack, while good, isn't as good as GTWF, so if you want to keep the same caster/melee combo you currently are attempting, PA and Extend can be dropped for GTWF and Fist.


So... if you want to do everything.... change up those two feats and you're in pretty good shape. But if you haven't played a divine a bunch, I might recommend starting with a caster or a melee... the multitasking is really quite hard to pull off.

Keep in mind if you do this, you need to change the order of your feats in general, since you got Extend as a bonus feat. You could get maximize or quicken there instead, though and just change the order that way.

[Meat-Head]

Ok, my main is a 17/2/1 Cleric/monk/wiz. He's 6th life, I have 1 wizzy PL.



Tip #1: MAX wisdom. (dump CHA if you need to) Wisdom does so much for this build it's a crime not to max it. A CRIME. (Stuns, Spell DCs, SP, AC, and will save)

Tip#2: Stunning fist is your new best friend. My stuns are better than many monks. (57-58 buffed WITHOUT FTR PLs, dwarf enh, OR the +6 twist from LD destiny= I can/do stun EE trash)

Tip#3: Healing Amp + Aura + stunned mobs + bursts = Do I even NEED sp to heal??

Tip#4: I personally wouldn't take PA. I prefer to have Empower instead for bursts and divine punishment. Plus, wis builds don't need to add something to their lackluster to-hit. Remember having high wis and always hitting a stunned mob is WAY more dmg than the 5 per hit from PA.
EDIT: Oh I see you dropped GTWF for PA.. Yeah bad idea. Swap those, you'll be happier. Better dmg, better to-hit.

Honestly though, you have two main choices: Caster focus or Melee focus. The difference is the feats. Here's what I did:


7+1human+2monk+1wiz=11 feats

Toughness
Stunning Fist
Emp Heal
Twf
itwf
gtwf
Maximize
Empower
Wiz PL Feat
Quicken
Heighten

I MIGHT swap out Wiz PL for Imp Crit Blud, but I doubt it.

If you wanna hit EE mobs with spells, you need to swap out the TWF line for spell pen stuff. That's the main difference. I Have ONE wiz PL and maybe 1 spell pen from Enhancements and I can land my destruct/slaw living in EHs just fine when in destiny maybe 75+% of the time. Sometimes I get drow spell pen fails. Non-drow? Non-issue.

Right now, I'm in GMOF destiny leveling it so I don't get the caster level bonus and therefore lose like 5 spell pen. So, now I'm like 50-50 on spell pen on EH mobs. Oh well, stuns work.


Gear I have that helps in rough order of importance to me:

eMask of Comedy (highly recommended for your always-on devotion slot)
Torc (do I need to explain??)
Conc-Opp SP goggles (See above)
eSpare Hand (I may end up dropping this when I get the +6 stun DC twist from LD, but it's good to have for EEs regardless).
3 piece abishai (evo bonus for spell pen helps implosions, plus the str/ac/slots are nice) I use bracers, boots, and gloves.
Currently using MIN2 HP cloak, but that could change.

[Meat-Head]

Power Attack, while good, isn't as good as GTWF, so if you want to keep the same caster/melee combo you currently are attempting, PA and Extend can be dropped for GTWF and Fist.

^^ Yes.

So... if you want to do everything.... change up those two feats and you're in pretty good shape. But if you haven't played a divine a bunch, I might recommend starting with a caster or a melee... the multitasking is really quite hard to pull off.

^^ YES. I'm still learning to balance this, and I've done it a lot. Casting AND melee+stuns AND healing? Can be rough. The harder the content or weaker the group, I focus more on hjeals.

[bigdmag]

Thanks for the tips guys, i will take a look and re tweak it a bit

[eden2760]

Nice build. I'm thinking of trying something like this myself.

The game is down right now for an update so I can't check for sure, but as I was using the planner to tweak around with a build like this, it seems that wiz force manipulation requires 2 levels of wizard? The ddowiki seems to cooberate. Is this a bug / typo in both or is this the case?

If so, that might make the 1 wizard a bit less attractive. I'm not sure I'd be ready to do a 16/split build.

Edit: Post 9 here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=397732 says you don't, and references this fact in the planner. Looks like the wiki was made from the planner files... I'll see if I can get that updated.

[JOTMON]

Take Monk at level 1.

General rule is take the class that has the highet skill points for the initial x4 bonus.

Wiz gets 2 skill points with concentration being the only usefull class skill.

Monk gets 4 base skill points (with the x4 modifier= 8 more starting skill points)
Class skills of.. Concentration, Diplomacy,Jump,Spot,Balance and more...

That initial load of skills will put you much further ahead with less lost/wasted cross class skill points.

Dont know if you are using vetern/vetern2 status to get you to leveld 4/7 to start..
starting monk is easier melee through the lower level stuff, caster power comes later...


I would take the Wiz and 2nd monk later in levelling.. when casting becomes more usefull... probably after blade barrier...

[Sardonica]

Take Monk at level 1.

General rule is take the class that has the highet skill points for the initial x4 bonus.

Although I agree with this in general, as a clonk you will want Echoes of Power, which requires Magical Training. Since Magical Training is only granted at level 1 to caster classes, this necessitates cleric (or possibly wizard) at level 1.

So you decide, more skill points? Or echoes of power? Might depend on your focus I guess. I would want the extra spell point regen when the going gets tough, myself.

[JOTMON]

Although I agree with this in general, as a clonk you will want Echoes of Power, which requires Magical Training. Since Magical Training is only granted at level 1 to caster classes, this necessitates cleric (or possibly wizard) at level 1.

So you decide, more skill points? Or echoes of power? Might depend on your focus I guess. I would want the extra spell point regen when the going gets tough, myself.

doesnt work that way..

You get Magical Training upon taking your first caster level.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Magical_Training

This feat is automatically granted once per character the first time that character gains a level in one of the requisite caster classes.

[Sardonica]

doesnt work that way..

You are right, my mistake. But there WAS a time that Echoes was only granted at character creation; thankfully this was fixed.

But I would add another consideration for caster-oriented human clonks is the inability to take metamagic feats as a level one monk. This is a serious issue for feat-starved clerics, and the planner is immense help here!

[savingsoul]

Looks like you've got some great feedback so far.

On my clonk I dumped CHA and started out with a WIS of 17. I agree with Meat-Head who suggested that you try to max wisdom. The trick I used was to take the Extra Turning feat to compensate for my low CHA, which gives me 4 more turn undeads for plenty enough bursts. As suggested above, trade PA for GTWF. I would also consider trading Heighten for Stunning Fist. The next feat I would consider dropping is Empower Spell (obviously not Empower Healing Spell) . . .

[Rockknocker]

Ok, my main is a 17/2/1 Cleric/monk/wiz. He's 6th life, I have 1 wizzy PL.

Tip #1: MAX wisdom. (dump CHA if you need to) Wisdom does so much for this build it's a crime not to max it. A CRIME. (Stuns, Spell DCs, SP, AC, and will save)

Tip#2: Stunning fist is your new best friend. My stuns are better than many monks. (57-58 buffed WITHOUT FTR PLs, dwarf enh, OR the +6 twist from LD destiny= I can/do stun EE trash)

Tip#3: Healing Amp + Aura + stunned mobs + bursts = Do I even NEED sp to heal??

Tip#4: I personally wouldn't take PA. I prefer to have Empower instead for bursts and divine punishment. Plus, wis builds don't need to add something to their lackluster to-hit. Remember having high wis and always hitting a stunned mob is WAY more dmg than the 5 per hit from PA.
EDIT: Oh I see you dropped GTWF for PA.. Yeah bad idea. Swap those, you'll be happier. Better dmg, better to-hit.

Honestly though, you have two main choices: Caster focus or Melee focus. The difference is the feats. Here's what I did:


7+1human+2monk+1wiz=11 feats

Toughness
Stunning Fist
Emp Heal
Twf
itwf
gtwf
Maximize
Empower
Wiz PL Feat
Quicken
Heighten

I MIGHT swap out Wiz PL for Imp Crit Blud, but I doubt it.

If you wanna hit EE mobs with spells, you need to swap out the TWF line for spell pen stuff. That's the main difference. I Have ONE wiz PL and maybe 1 spell pen from Enhancements and I can land my destruct/slaw living in EHs just fine when in destiny maybe 75+% of the time. Sometimes I get drow spell pen fails. Non-drow? Non-issue.

As a newbie wanting to build a stunning-fist Clonk with high heal skills, good Blades and acceptable AC to stand in the front. I was very pleased to see this advice. But I ran into the following dilemmas / problems trying to make a 32-point build:

# Taking Monk at level 1 gets me 3 feats. Stunning fist and Toughness are no-brainers. However, a monk cannot take Empowered healing or any of the other spell-inclined feats.
# So Two-weapon fighting sprang to mind. No go --- need 15 Dex for that.


So here is the dilemma:
1) Take 15 Dex and drop Cha to 12. That losses one Turn-Undead. Since this guy is going to be dependent on his role in healing, and not having played a clonk but having seen the Extra-turn enhancements, I am not sure if losing one TU is a biggie or not ...
2) ... or leave Cha at 14 and drop Int to 8. But that way there is no chance to maximise Balance which is not a cleric skill.
3) Keep the attribute stats as they are and take Cleric at level 1. That loses me 10 skill points

So the toss-up seems 1 turn undead versus some early points in jump and spot (4 each) and 3 (?) in XXX.

Could an experienced Clonker please advise. Many anticipatory thanks.

[JOTMON]

As a newbie wanting to build a stunning-fist Clonk with high heal skills, good Blades and acceptable AC to stand in the front. I was very pleased to see this advice. But I ran into the following dilemmas / problems trying to make a 32-point build:

# Taking Monk at level 1 gets me 3 feats. Stunning fist and Toughness are no-brainers. However, a monk cannot take Empowered healing or any of the other spell-inclined feats.
# So Two-weapon fighting sprang to mind. No go --- need 15 Dex for that.


So here is the dilemma:
1) Take 15 Dex and drop Cha to 12. That losses one Turn-Undead. Since this guy is going to be dependent on his role in healing, and not having played a clonk but having seen the Extra-turn enhancements, I am not sure if losing one TU is a biggie or not ...
2) ... or leave Cha at 14 and drop Int to 8. But that way there is no chance to maximise Balance which is not a cleric skill.
3) Keep the attribute stats as they are and take Cleric at level 1. That loses me 10 skill points

So the toss-up seems 1 turn undead versus some early points in jump and spot (4 each) and 3 (?) in XXX.

Could an experienced Clonker please advise. Many anticipatory thanks.

Without 15 Dex to meet the prerequisite for 2WF...
I am guessing you went 13 Dex with the intention of a +4 tome to get G2WF or are opting not to take G2WF.

Greater Two Weapon Fighting
◦Prerequisite: Dexterity 17+, base attack bonus of +11 or higher, Improved Two Weapon Fighting.
Greater Two Weapon Fighting increases the chance to proc an off-hand attack by 20%, bringing the total chance to 80%.


in this case i would probably take Precision (dont take power attack if you go this route)
or
Take Cleric at first level and sacrafice the Skill Points.

Precision
Precision mode, you gain +5% to hit and reduce the target's fortification against your attacks by 25%
◦Prerequisite: Dexterity 13+, base attack bonus of +1 or higher

[Rockknocker]

Much appreciated, JOTMON
I plan to start with 14 Dex. And indeed I still have my sights set firmly on Greater 2WF.
So it looks like I will have to forego the early skill points and pick up what I can later when I take the Monk level.
So it's melee with a simple wep plus Soundburst for a while it seems.

..........................
Another question. Is there not a reasonable position in not taking Empower given that he will have Maximize, which means I can still take G2WF. Then, for the 'dilemma' monk feat at level 1, also take Precision as JOTMAN suggested. I have no idea whether Empower is imperative as an intermediate power metamagic to save on SPs.

Finally, does Augment Summoning work properly. That is also a level 1 option. That might also be an option for a Hezrou plus a hireling in small parties instead of Empower.

Hope this is not all too obvious.

[JOTMON]

Much appreciated, JOTMON
I plan to start with 14 Dex. And indeed I still have my sights set firmly on Greater 2WF.
So it looks like I will have to forego the early skill points and pick up what I can later when I take the Monk level.
So it's melee with a simple wep plus Soundburst for a while it seems.

..........................
Another question. Is there not a reasonable position in not taking Empower given that he will have Maximize, which means I can still take G2WF. Then, for the 'dilemma' monk feat at level 1, also take Precision as JOTMAN suggested. I have no idea whether Empower is imperative as an intermediate power metamagic to save on SPs.

Finally, does Augment Summoning work properly. That is also a level 1 option. That might also be an option for a Hezrou plus a hireling in small parties instead of Empower.

Hope this is not all too obvious.

You could drop empower.. I like it because it helps with all offensive spells like BB and heals on skellies..

When you get your dex point(when you tome kicks in) and before picking up 2wf you should be able to feat swap it at Fred.
Just make sure to see fred before picking up 2WF or you will likely not be able to swap it out later.

As to the Herzu.. I wasnt impressed with the augmet summoning saw no real noticable difference.
The summon monster 9 spell is a tough slot to tie up with the Herzu anyway.. implosion/energy drain/mass heal/Herzu... pick 2 or get used to the shuffle game at every shrine.

[korsat]

Actually I see the 1 drud splash better than 1 wizard. Mainly because the DC of your spells will not be high enough anyways to really matter in EEs. Your higher DC is stunning fists that can be pushed around 60. So the faster way to kill things in EE is to stun mob and dps him with sense weakness.

To do this you want to be primary healer/melee and secondary healer/caster.

For a melee cleric 1 druid is better because of rams might and +20 healing/light spellpower. Take in mind that if you do it right and you work well on EDs you can hit really hard.

If you like the idea take a look at avenlight build in my firm, maybe you can find something interesting

[JOTMON]

Actually I see the 1 drud splash better than 1 wizard. Mainly because the DC of your spells will not be high enough anyways to really matter in EEs. Your higher DC is stunning fists that can be pushed around 60. So the faster way to kill things in EE is to stun mob and dps him with sense weakness.

To do this you want to be primary healer/melee and secondary healer/caster.

For a melee cleric 1 druid is better because of rams might and +20 healing/light spellpower. Take in mind that if you do it right and you work well on EDs you can hit really hard.

If you like the idea take a look at avenlight build in my firm, maybe you can find something interesting

Druid is another viable option.. is it better.. tough call...more flavor choice at this point..
Druid also gets a free door opener with the pet for those times when you want a lever puller.
Wiz gives a free meta feat and force spell power vs the druid variant..
comes down to which variant fits your playstyle.

Dc's will be fine, monk splash and Waterstance +2wis offsets 2 levels, so he is only 1 dc behind a pure class.
So he will be in the same range as any pure class.
Biggest downfalls vs pure - only 2 level 9 spells, very low PRR (robes and no shield for monk benefits), tighter weapon/gear selections.

I have no issues in EE on my variant(Cleic17/Rogue2/Monk1) and he is trap specc'd.

[LafoMamone]

Dc's will be fine, monk splash and Waterstance +2wis offsets 2 levels, so he is only 1 dc behind a pure class.

You're thinking spell penetration. A clonk gets +1 DC to everything over pure because of water stance.