Devs, is risia adding to ML WAI?

[EllisDee37]

As both threads that you refer to were posted on the topic of a supposed change to the Icy Burst recipe, I'll reiterate: No changes have been made to Festival Frost/Icy Burst.

Festival Frost/Icy Burst were never before allowed to go on crafted gear, so something changed.

I'm very happy to hear that the rules haven't changed for lootgen, but the rules did, in fact, change.

EDIT: Unless you can't put risia on crafted gear, of course, but if so that makes the dev posts confusing.

[Full_Bleed]

1) If Frost/IB doesn't affect the level of random lootgen items, then there is no complaint here.

2) If we can now add Icy Burst to Crafted weapons, **and it doesn't overwrite an existing Prefix**, then this is an upgrade... a NEW feature of the event. Turbine should be promoting this! We'd be "paying" for it in ML, but it would be an extra effect on a crafted weapon that we couldn't otherwise add. Can someone confirm whether or not it will overwrite an existing prefix?

3) The way the glaciation spell power affects ML is FAIR and valuable. We're still able to add a level appropriate extra spell power bonus, that doesn't affect ML, to items. It might not scale with levels in the same way as the old glaciation effects did, but it makes sense.

[shadereaper33]

As both threads that you refer to were posted on the topic of a supposed change to the Icy Burst recipe, I'll reiterate: No changes have been made to Festival Frost/Icy Burst.

If you still believe that changes have been made to the Icy Burst recipe, please provide a screenshot of an item before applying the recipes, and a screenshot after, demonstrating a difference in the item's minimum level.

We've tried, and both myself and our Quality Assurance team are unable to reproduce the alleged minimum level increase caused by the Risia Icy Burst recipe.

As for Festival Glaciation:
Spell Power was introduced in Update 14 with the release of Menace of the Underdark. Since the introduction of the Spell Power system, Spell Power amounts on lootgen (random treasure) items have been associated with Minimum Levels as shown in the chart I posted above.
You're trying to compare apples to oranges- the old Glaciation recipes are gone, because the old Spell Damage Amplification system is gone.
It hadn't occurred to us that this would catch anyone by surprise. The new Festival Glaciation recipes work exactly like Spell Power does in treasure.

first of all, thank you for testing and reporting on the frost/icy burst effects, that is appreciated. I do not have lamma installed, and will not until a character wipe occurs, but that is a discussion for another thread.

Second, the glaciation system isn't apples to oranges, at least not to me. You guys changed the way that spell damage amplification works. I get that, it makes sense, and it was well documented ahead of time. My big complaint here is that you also changed the way the risia ice games glaciation effect is applied to items, and then didn't bother to tell any of us at all, and just assumed we would all somehow know. Prior to the expansion, festival glaciation did not affect ML in any way, and now it does. That is something that should have been mentioned over a month ago when the risia games first hit lamma. Undocumented "stealth" changed like these are one of the biggest causes of drama and grief in this game. You guys changed it, cool, sweet, it makes sense to me NOW THAT YOU HAVE ACTUALLY TOLD US. In the future, when you change the way something works, regardless of how obvious you guys think it will be or should be, put it in the patch notes. All of this could have been avoided if your post about the spell power/ML system was put in the initial patch notes about the risia games.

[t0r012]

first of all, thank you for testing and reporting on the frost/icy burst effects, that is appreciated. I do not have lamma installed, and will not until a character wipe occurs, but that is a discussion for another thread.

Second, the glaciation system isn't apples to oranges, at least not to me. You guys changed the way that spell damage amplification works. I get that, it makes sense, and it was well documented ahead of time. My big complaint here is that you also changed the way the risia ice games glaciation effect is applied to items, and then didn't bother to tell any of us at all, and just assumed we would all somehow know. Prior to the expansion, festival glaciation did not affect ML in any way, and now it does. That is something that should have been mentioned over a month ago when the risia games first hit lamma. Undocumented "stealth" changed like these are one of the biggest causes of drama and grief in this game. You guys changed it, cool, sweet, it makes sense to me NOW THAT YOU HAVE ACTUALLY TOLD US. In the future, when you change the way something works, regardless of how obvious you guys think it will be or should be, put it in the patch notes. All of this could have been avoided if your post about the spell power/ML system was put in the initial patch notes about the risia games.

Were you expecting to be able to put 120 cold spell power on an ML 0 item?
If not what is the big deal?

If so , you were crazy to think that.

[shadereaper33]

Were you expecting to be able to put 120 cold spell power on an ML 0 item?
If not what is the big deal?

If so , you were crazy to think that.

Given that until now, there has been no mention of any change to way these effects were applied, and that last year you could put the most powerful glaciation effect on an ML 0 item, yeah, I kinda was actually. Crazy or not, based on past experience and lack of communication from the dev's about any changes, that is what I expected.

[FestusHood]

I believe the "brief period" would be in reference to the short time between the launch of MotU, which converted these effects to spell power, and their subsequent removal from items.

Yes, this is what i meant. My example is that i put the old superior glaciation 6 effect onto the eternal wand of ray of frost. It was still minimum level 1. After motu, when spellpower came in, the wand had whatever spell power. 66? can't remember for sure. But it was still minimum level 1. So if i put the spell power onto the wand again, it will raise the min level so that it is just like any other random lootgen that has glaciation on it.

I guess i can see how this could still be useful if you want to put multiple spell power effects onto a single scepter, or add the glaciation effect to a thaumaturgy staff so that it is more universal in what it boosts. Maybe a way to make a staff that has ice lore but no glaciation on it better. Meh, we'll have to see.

[Scraap]

Festival Glaciation mutations will only adjust an item's Minimum Level if the item's level is below what is appropriate for the amount of Spell Power you are placing on it.

The relationship of single-element Spell Power totals to Minimum Level progression is as follows:

In other words, if you find a randomly-generated weapon in treasure that has Spell Power on it, it will have the amount of Spell Power listed below that matches it's Minimum Level.

30 Spell Power - No Minimum Level/Minimum Level 1
36 Spell Power - Minimum Level 2
42 Spell Power - Minimum Level 4
48 Spell Power - Minimum Level 6
54 Spell Power - Minimum Level 8
60 Spell Power - Minimum Level 10
66 Spell Power - Minimum Level 12
72 Spell Power - Minimum Level 14
78 Spell Power - Minimum Level 16
84 Spell Power - Minimum Level 18
90 Spell Power - Minimum Level 20
96 Spell Power - Minimum Level 21
102 Spell Power - Minimum Level 22
108 Spell Power - Minimum Level 23
114 Spell Power - Minimum Level 24
120 Spell Power - Minimum Level 25

What does that mean for Festival Glaciation recipes?
Answer: They will only affect my item's level if I place a higher amount of Spell Power than is normally found in random treasure on an item of that level.

Example: I have a Min Level 14 Combustion scepter. Because it's a Min Level 14 item, it has 72 Fire Spell Power.
I can add all the Festival Glaciation up to 72 Cold Spell Power without changing my scepter's level. If I increase it further to 78, the item's level raises to 16.

Since this matches what you all are used to seeing in treasure throughout the game, it shouldn't be very different or unusual. Hope this helps clarify things.

Thank you for the clarification. That being said, given that for half a decade all observations on lootgen were that the mutations were generated cumulatively, with specialty rituals adding no additional ML, I'd highly suggest a detailed note to the effect come release to avoid further confusion.

I'd add more, but it would be uncivil.

[WielderofGigantus]

It hadn't occurred to us that this would catch anyone by surprise. The new Festival Glaciation recipes work exactly like Spell Power does in treasure.

What's ****ing people off is that their old Major Ice Lore Scepters, usually ML 8 or so, to which they added Festival Glaciation and spent all those hours farming purples and motes, got stripped of their Glaciation.

While we appreciate that we were refunded motes and recipes for our lost Glaciation, those people can never get back their twinked out Scepters because it is no longer possible in the game to get that high spell power on low level items.

That's what is ****ing people off.

[Book_O_Dragons]

Were you expecting to be able to put 120 cold spell power on an ML 0 item?
If not what is the big deal?

If so , you were crazy to think that.

Yes.
I don't play casters enough to have made a glaciation item but all the indications were that it was possible.

[Daemoneyes]

Mundane can add their enchant without min-lvl increase so why the fuss about caster :i
Its not as if Icy-Burst on a Holy of Lacerating Greatsword was not OP...

[Matuse]

Were you expecting to be able to put 120 cold spell power on an ML 0 item?
If not what is the big deal?

If so , you were crazy to think that.

Why would it be crazy to expect to be able to do something that you could do before?

[nayozz]

feathers of sun thanks for the information you gave us...
now if someone with a little of wiki-fu could pick that information and put it somewhere on ddo wiki
i would be very happy :P

[luvirini]

You could add what is +90 spell power equivalent to a minimum level 0 item before without it raising the level..

[Alavatar]

It hadn't occurred to us that this would catch anyone by surprise. The new Festival Glaciation recipes work exactly like Spell Power does in treasure.

The expectation was to be able to have an ML 8 Glaciation 84 of Major Ice Lore item (or, in my case, an ML 0 Glaciation 84 Ring), which was the case when U14 and MotU went live.

Now, with your changes, the reality will be worse than the expectation. Just a warning that folks who don't pay attention to the Lammania forums will be ... disappointed to say the least.

P.S. In fact I am quite upset that the Glaciation on my ring was deleted because the recipes are not allowed to add Glaciation to anything other than a weapon. The only way for the Festival recipe to work on something other than a weapon, previously, was for that item to have already have Glaciation. Now I expect that I cannot reproduce the ring I had.

[Missing_Minds]

Ponderment.

In the past you could not apply these recpieces to named items. Has that been changed?

Can you apply both icy burst and glacation to a singular random loot weapon? Named?

If you can apply both, or even just one to a named, I need tow ork on getting a better rapier now for my druid.

[Cauthey]

the alter said it was adding +4 to ml on icy burst last ice games also ...but it didnt.. prolly the same thing going on this year

THAT'S RIGHT!! I remember this now! Thank you, 9Crows!

Yes, FoS: there is text upon the Risia crafting altar that inacurately reports that it will be adding to the ML with Festival Frost/Icy Burst recipes. THAT is likely the cause for panic, and why players do not have a clear understanding of what will happen to their weapons when a recipe is applied.

I do not believe that the intention was to make Cannith Crafted items Icy Burstable.

So, if at all possible... please try and correct the text on the Risia barter box, and remove this incorrect ML warning for the Frost/Icy Burst recipes. That will remove the panic in the community, and will also side-step a lot of communication confusion when you bring the event live.

I think that 9Crows here uncovered the crux of at least the Festival Frost/Icy Burst issue in the quoted text above.

If FoS says "no changes to Festival Frost/Icy Burst," then one would presume that the incorrect ML warning will still be present for these recipies.

[Alavatar]

Ponderment.

In the past you could not apply these recpieces to named items. Has that been changed?

Can you apply both icy burst and glacation to a singular random loot weapon? Named?

If you can apply both, or even just one to a named, I need tow ork on getting a better rapier now for my druid.

I thought previously you could only add one Risia ritual to an item?

If you can add more than one I know several caster sticks I have will be getting the Glaciation/Lore rituals.

[G_Lich]

I was really hoping for a good twinky glaciation, sad to see it's not happening. Retroactive loot changes are definitely not awesome.

We'll see when release on live if this holds up. Maybe I don't understand completely, but the low or no ML items w/ decent glaciation seem to have expired after U16p1 - No change seems like a bit of a stretch

Glaciation addons as described here seem like a slot saver, no longer a ML breaker.

Right now WF have minimal options for glaciation 90 at possible level 15 (Cannith Challenges + Masterful Craft) like fleshies do, and I have 2 WF casters who would really appreciate a viable option (but I understand the need to counterbalance and still keep "of the Glacier" items attractive)

[Flavilandile]

I thought previously you could only add one Risia ritual to an item?

Depends if you have been here long enough to learn about Fight Club Material ( and last I know said Fight Club Material had been fixed long ago ).

[DrDetroit]

This change to Festival Glaciation blows.

It means that the Festival Icy Burst is still great for low level loot but Glaciation is only for high level loot.

Way to ruin a good thing.