The Hound: State of...

[elraido]

So you're saying at level, characters can play Tempest's Spine and kill Sor'jeck without doing the puzzle and the runes? Because that appears to be the intention to me.

Yup, you are supposed to use the puzzles and ruins. Same thing with the Giant at the end of Stormcleave. They really wanted you to kill the elementals and mephits in order to hurt him.

[Chai]

So you're saying at level, characters can play Tempest's Spine and kill Sor'jeck without doing the puzzle and the runes? Because that appears to be the intention to me.

At level characters can and have been able to do so. But as stated before its always been on the characters as the attack source. Hound has not been hurtable by characters save for the possible few lucky 1000 point plus crits for 4+ years as the obvious intended way to do that raid is with the puppies doing ~2/3rds of the damage.

[elraido]

At level characters can and have been able to do so. But as stated before its always been on the characters as the attack source. Hound has not been hurtable by characters save for the possible few lucky 1000 point plus crits for 4+ years as the obvious intended way to do that raid is with the puppies doing ~2/3rds of the damage.

No, they haven't always been able to do so. When the raid was first released, you NEEDED to solve the puzzle at the top in order to do enough damage to hurt him.

[Chai]

No, they haven't always been able to do so. When the raid was first released, you NEEDED to solve the puzzle at the top in order to do enough damage to hurt him.

Incorrect. We were able to do this in 2006, sans solving the puzzle. There were these wonderful little weapons called transmuters you see...

[Sonos]

Then why haven't they done anything with Tempest's Spine? Level 17 characters have been able to beat Sor'jeck with his 100 DR for 4+ years.

He is not entertaining any voices of reason, his purpose in here is to be a contrarian. He doesn't care that Abbott can be soloed, that Sor'jeck can be killed, and that players 5-7 levels above a quest or raid have the ability to faceroll them.

Also Chai: it says that you used the Club of the Holy Flame, not put it in a backpack. So if I throw it away, according to your failed logic, I have exploited the quest.

999/Epic <--- Looks pretty clear to me.

[JustWinBaby]

He is not entertaining any voices of reason, his purpose in here is to be a contrarian. He doesn't care that Abbott can be soloed, that Sor'jeck can be killed, and that players 5-7 levels above a quest or raid have the ability to faceroll them.

Also Chai: it says that you used the Club of the Holy Flame, not put it in a backpack. So if I throw it away, according to your failed logic, I have exploited the quest.

999/Epic <--- Looks pretty clear to me.

Yea I'm done here.

[Sonos]

Incorrect. We were able to do this in 2006, sans solving the puzzle. There were these wonderful little weapons called transmuters you see...

Ah! So when it's a "WE" and we can call other people exploiters, but the "we" denotes "as intended". Another gem.

[elraido]

Incorrect. We were able to do this in 2006, sans solving the puzzle. There were these wonderful little weapons called transmuters you see...

Were transmuters even available that far back? I seriously can't remember. But even if they were, how many people actually had them?

[Chai]

He is not entertaining any voices of reason, his purpose in here is to be a contrarian. He doesn't care that Abbott can be soloed, that Sor'jeck can be killed, and that players 5-7 levels above a quest or raid have the ability to faceroll them.

Also Chai: it says that you used the Club of the Holy Flame, not put it in a backpack. So if I throw it away, according to your failed logic, I have exploited the quest.

999/Epic <--- Looks pretty clear to me.

Thats actually your purpose, not mine. You see, this thread is about how hound is intended to be run, -vs- how it is being run. Abbot, sorjek, deleras etc are all straw men in this discussion, tangenting away from the real point the real contrarians have no answer for, which is that power creep is now allowing people to exploit the way hound is intended to be run.

[Chai]

Were transmuters even available that far back? I seriously can't remember. But even if they were, how many people actually had them?

Anyone that was farming threnal, TS, or anything with a level 8-10 end reward list.

[Chai]

Ah! So when it's a "WE" and we can call other people exploiters, but the "we" denotes "as intended". Another gem.

Yeap, a gem I (and Im sure others) reported to Turbine back then too. There have been quite a few adjustments to TS over the years you see...

[Vint]

Were transmuters even available that far back? I seriously can't remember. But even if they were, how many people actually had them?

Not that I ever would (lmao), but I remember lvl 10 non twink parties beating the raid in 5 mins. It was changed shortly there after.

[Chai]

Yea I'm done here.

Please check back in when the "Turbine nerfed my barbarian in Hound" thread happens.

[Ivan_Milic]

Please check back in when the "Turbine nerfed my barbarian in Hound" thread happens.

Not gonna happen.

[elraido]

Anyone that was farming threnal, TS, or anything with a level 8-10 end reward list.

Back in 06, when the raid was released, people didn't have gear. They were literally lucky to have +5 full plate. Heck, if you had a malodrite weapon, you were considered a godsend for tempest spine....so you could help others by reducing the blackguards AC so they could actually hit them. And honestly, I don't think I carried a transmuter on my paladin. I was just using retribution the whole time (I had like 8 or them, so I used them on everything, including oozes).

[Chai]

Not gonna happen.

Pfffft. Stuff far more hilarious pops up after each update round these parts. It will be another "why are you taking my easy button away" thread.

[smatt]

Thats actually your purpose, not mine. You see, this thread is about how hound is intended to be run, -vs- how it is being run. Abbot, sorjek, deleras etc are all straw men in this discussion, tangenting away from the real point the real contrarians have no answer for, which is that power creep is now allowing people to exploit the way hound is intended to be run.

Yes, and there are 100's running hound on level 25 barbs.... LOL

Sounds about right...

This thread should've stopped afer the first 2 posts, and certainly would benefit from less people knowing everything about everything

You see the only thing that needed to be said is... ED's are allowing Big Mommy Dog to be killed immediately at the start of the raid.
Which is likely just an oversight....

There done...

[JustWinBaby]

Pfffft. Stuff far more hilarious pops up after each update round these parts. It will be another "why are you taking my easy button away" thread.

Still failing to understand how/why there is any grief whatsoever that an Epic Level character is dominating a raid 7 levels below him/her. When there is that much level gap, WAI tends to change/not matter/become irrelevant.

[Sonos]

Thats actually your purpose, not mine. You see, this thread is about how hound is intended to be run, -vs- how it is being run. Abbot, sorjek, deleras etc are all straw men in this discussion, tangenting away from the real point the real contrarians have no answer for, which is that power creep is now allowing people to exploit the way hound is intended to be run.

They are not straw men because they serve to counter your argument. I speak only for myself, but I'm sure I'm not alone, your use of "Strawman" is rote and certainly not WAI.

Being contrarian is ignoring legitimate points and dismissing them as straw men arguments. Having a different opinion is not necessarily contrarian for contrarian sake which is your lot in life.

[Chai]

Back in 06, when the raid was released, people didn't have gear. They were literally lucky to have +5 full plate. Heck, if you had a malodrite weapon, you were considered a godsend for tempest spine....so you could help others by reducing the blackguards AC so they could actually hit them. And honestly, I don't think I carried a transmuter on my paladin. I was just using retribution the whole time (I had like 8 or them, so I used them on everything, including oozes).

Blackguards were pulled to the door, shield blocked and firewalled, easy as pie. Yeah I remember melee players peeing and moaning about the high AC. That resulted in one of the many adjustments that have been done to that quest. And people DID have the gear needed to win back then if they cared to get it - highest level was 10 which took a day or 2 to get to, and then the rest was farming threnal + giant caves.