The Mechadi Champion: a shiradi splashed sorcerer EE capable first life build

[Charononus]

HA! I can't believe I never saw this build before from you. I just TRed Sorrion from enchanter AM on Friday due to being tired of trying to stay up with the ridiculous DCs Turbine has felt the need to implement, and I have a few words of advice...

My starting stats -
Str - 8
Dex - 14
Con -18
Int - 6
Wis - 10
Cha - 16
I lowered Intel and strength to increase dex and wis. Why? Because EE saves are NUTS and the +3 reflex and +2 will are more value to me than a few skills and the chance to pull levers With a +2 intel tome at lvl 7, I am still able to get max UMD and 6 in balance.

ED layout -
I have exactly what you have for my ED, except I took 3/3 In the weeds and 2/3 elemental absorbtion. Why? Because +1/+1 dodge seems more important to me than 5% elemental resists. Spells rarely kill me with these saves, but 250 damage per swing from an EE mob is best to be avoided I also go with air savant because wings are just too good to stay away from mobs.

As far as not building for DCs, I would disagree with anyone that advocates for that. At end game I will have a 54 evocation DC. Throw a hypno or crushing despair, then a prismatic spray and that can go a long way toward thinning out some EE mobs. Also, a 54 DC electric loop SLA aint half bad either AND it helps for all mobs to not save vs your spells and take 1/2 to no damage (I HATE evaders!).

Finally, in regards to taking pally levels. I would encourage all 3+ TRs to take them at level 19+20. Why? Because wail or energy drain makes IQ1&2 quests trivial. With the insane hps they have, pure damage takes WAY longer.

Why did you make a horc sorc? WF lower their cha to be able self repair. Or is 6 int a typo?

edit has to be a typo so disregard, 8 str is too low for horc.

[Thar]

Kinda sad that the best EE destiny for casters is the ranger one...

[slimkj]

Kinda sad that the best EE destiny for casters is the ranger one...

Rangers are sad that the best ED for them is the Barb one.

[Spartywinz]

Kinda sad that the best EE destiny for casters is the ranger one...

Which ED is the ranger one? I thought they were all non class specific.

[rdasca]

Which ED is the ranger one? I thought they were all non class specific.

Yeah because GMoF is so generic.

[Zerkul]

I'm having fun as Shiradi human sorc at the moment mech. Much fun. Some of the ideas behind my build are taken from your post .

[doomteen007]

I took my 8th life WF archmage wizard and went from ench/illus CC Magister archmage, and turned it into a force spec'ed evocation shiradi archmage. It renders my past lives, destiny levels, and most of my gear entirely useless, but it is MUCH more effective (only catching 1/3 of trash mobs with a hold/dancing ball after 3 aoe debuffs is NOT acceptable, and was happening with my near max dc of 54), to the point of providing CC (nerve venom) AND near keeping up dps wise with my 4th life evoc dc based savant sorc, if not surpassing him (crunching numbers atm).

While this option is really cool, totally needed to make evoc archmage viable at all, and very beginner friendly (no past lives, gear, or even destinies needed past a potency item, shiradi 5, and a few pieces of survival gear), it's also frustrating. To be honest, i enjoy the play style of a CC MUCH more than that of the spammer (hence having an 8th lifer at all), but i went this route to A) try it, and B) stay relevant in EE content. While i DON'T, <- conjunction meaning DO NOT (for the record), think Shiradi should be nerfed, i DO think that several destinies need to have more love given to them- otherwise, why go into a DC destiny that doesnt buff dc's overly much (and is twistable when it does), when there is a destiny that gives you no-fail procs?

Needless to say, I believe magister needs a significant buff (especially in the high ranges, as low ranges would allow for easier twists- it sounds selfish, but from a dev perspective it's possible they DIDN'T want that bump to occur for anyone not in magister), perhaps a universal +2/4 to their specialized or universal DC as an addition to their T5 autogrant? Personally, I didn't see much of anything worth taking in magister past spell pen (no longer needed much, only really for drow content/replace past lives), DC's in t2, and Int 1-6, and the spell point reduc if you don't have green scale/staff of petitioner. The other thing magister lacks is SLA's. In EE content, you are always on the move for survival, and in non-EE or GOOD EE groups, you don't stay in one place long because you are moving through the quest, so sigils are REALLY lame, and useless IMO for anything but spending a spare point. I don't know a single person that uses summons for anything other than a quick diversion, so summoning augmentation is equally useless- and the goal of magister is to only throw spells once, so having something that gives a small chance to debuff on a failed save is again, a waste of destiny points IMO. Cooldown reduc is nice, but not worth spending the points to get to Point is, Magister needs MAJOR love.

The other destiny that needs love is Draconic, for entirely different reasons. Sorc's as a class have always been MORE damage than melee's, just with a finite amount due to a blue bar. Now adays though, my sorc is doing MUCH less damage as compared to a decent melee, especially a blitzing one, and more damage than a shiradi, but not by much, and not by quite enough to rationalize the lack of crowd control- the reason being the destiny needs a bump, but more to complement the class (more below). The SLA's a sorc gets are AWESOME- really hit the nail on the head (though i think the cooldown on the wings is too long, and the damage and proc rate of the t6 aura is ridiculously low. Also, while energy burst IS worth the points you must spend to get to it, go out with a bang is a joke- would love to see that made useful). However, it's the general power of the destiny that needs a bump. When trash mobs have 6-15k HP, my energy burst is able to kill a few in one shot occasionally- however, that means i'm really only VERY useful every 30 secs, less when adding in the number of breaths and their cooldowns (PLEASE add in a way to get more breathes). The rest of the time I'm throwing my class SLA's and non-sla spells, but therein lies the issue. While Draconic gives some amazing SLA's, the overall damage bump (30 spellpower, really?) is less than stellar. And even on a character with +3 to evo DC's from PL's, major evoc focus item, 3 evoc focus feats, max char on a wf, twisting DC's, etc, i STILL have a lot of trash mobs making their ref saves, halving my damage output, and rendering my savant 3 ability useless 95% of the time (the t3 ability needs tons of love). So while magister needs more cool ability's, draconic has them- it needs more spellpower bumps, Evoc/Conj DC bumps, and a better epic moment (the current one is a total waste and doesn't fit with the class it was oriented towards at all IMO)- sorc's used to be able to see few if any saves on anything but spiders and archers, but now trash saves have gone up a LOT while our DC's have gone up only a little- same thing with the SLA's, as in order to make the class SLA's worth anything but finishing off a low hp mob, a spellpower bump is definitely in order :/ Draconic is still in better overall shape than magister IMO, but definitely still needs more love.

Finally (focusing on casting classes) Angel need's a bump- not a HUGE one, as it is also fairly good, and not in the SLA dept. as it has cool one's already (though i REALLY want a healing dot that's stacking- theres elemental ones, and light one- wheres the healing lvl 5 stacking dot spell?? :P ), but again an overall spellpower bump- not much, only about 20 spellpower, but just to put it into overall balance (this coming from someone who runs a pure healbot/light damage, just to give info on the perspective I'm talkin from), just to put a little more oomph into a well designed destiny.

I know many bards complain about fatesinger being underpowered- and I enjoyed fatesinger on all of my chars (one of the few off destinies that was enjoyable), but for an end destiny, i could see it needing love.

From a DPS standpoint, fury and dreadnaught seem pretty even depending on class and what you are running, grandmaster is very well designed and has the most variety i've seen in terms of what people spend points on.

To be honest, I havent spent much time in anything outside of magister, angel, draconic, shiradi, grandmaster, and fatesinger (on a non-bard, for the record), but the above is my opinion/advice/request based on what i HAVE experienced, and discussed with people. This may not have been QUITE the right thread to post in, but since it has confirmed dev sightings (a rare thing indeed! :P), i figured it is close enough ^^.

Again, this is NOT a call to nerf anything, shiradi is at an appropriate power level for current EE content (how it scales up with 3 levels to lvl 28 EE's we will see- should be interesting), but rather to bump others up for balance- i REALLY want to play my wizard how i designed him, but sadly the game is not oriented towards that at this time :/ I will gladly pay the cash to buy a +3 lesser heart to LR the monk levels back out if you DO bump magister

[doomteen007]

Which ED is the ranger one? I thought they were all non class specific.

Heh the one said to be for rangers is shiradi, but fury is more their thing :P fury was 'for' barb, but legendary tends to be their thing. fatesinger was 'for' bards, but most i know chill in fury. really, ya gotta figure out what plays to your strengths best!

[anivaj]

doomteen007,

The issue I see with all the increases in specialized schools from EDs is that it makes it harder and harder to be a diverse caster. Before EDs, you could get your off-specialty spells DCs to servicable levels. Now with the +3 from magister and +1 from epic spell focus the DCs of off-specialty schools are becoming worthless. This makes DC casters more and more worthless in different quests that require different spells and tactics. I do not feel this is good for the game. That is why I TRed into an easy button sorc/pally. Because if there is one thing Turbine cant nerf, it's DPS. Which is a shame, because I really enjoyed being one of the most useful players in the party with the lowest kill count

[walkingwolfmike]

Developers read many more threads than players seem to think. It's just time consuming to respond to them (always with appropriate, public-facing, kind, gentle, loving, useful, meaningful and actually accurate responses, since there is some responsibility for Developers to not say Wrong Things.)

A copper piece for your un-censored thoughts, Varg.

[MnaSidhe]

I don't believe Maj is that fragile. I suspect he just got too busy to keep up with the forums. There is quite a bit of change going on!

Did I dream that he posted that he wasnt going to post so much any more, because of our crazy, rude criticisms and stuff? I know I dreamed that about being stuck in Dar es Salaam airport... but I am fairly sure I didnt dream that about maj... I will go searching and update if I find it!

[dunklezhan]

there is some responsibility for Developers to not say Wrong Things.

But... but where am I supposed to put all my nerd rage, if I can't unreasonably aim it at you? If you let it build up it'll vent all over the place! Cat's and dogs, living together... game over man, game over*.


(*^*&%)" Devs. No consideration whatsoever.


*Yeah. I totally went there, and mixed up the quotes. I have no shame, bask in my glory!

[Viisari]

Spell list: (underlined=vital)
Level1:jump, magic missle, nightshield, grease
Level3:chain missles, haste, Magic Circle Against Evil, displace

FTFY

Rage isn't very useful with all the primal screamers running around anyway and even if there aren't any around having grease is far more important.

[Dsav101]

Absolutely loving this build. Seriously, I have a first life sorc human air savant that I am just loving playing. The procs are fun, the wings help, the saves are nuts. A LoH, healing spring, and some scrolls and unless I screw up I can live through most stuff. Fun times! Thanks for posting about the build!

-Hustler

[HalfORCastrator]

Yes there are a lot of ways to go with it. Personally I would not consider human a good move but it would certainly be playable.

I wouldn't focus on AC or PRR either, nor dump feats or twists on dodge (other than the free 3% from magister reflex twist).

Anyway, glad so many people liked the build and it's many varients, I won't be around much but there are plenty of knowledgeable shiradians (shiradites? shiradators?) that can answer any questions people have, I'm sure.

Best wishes, yadda yadda,

-Mech

Even though you've quit I'll put my two cents in as one who has a human.

It takes very little to go for reasonable prr with this build, though I agree with Mech that wasting feats or twists isn't good, the paladin levels supply proficiency in the heavier armors. My plan is to run EE Shadowmail with Divine Power clickies. Just with this and a +14 prr augment my PRR should have around 15% mitigation, 18% with DP clickies(if this works, haven't been able to test/find out because of me not wanting to bind my EE Shadowmail just yet due to value)).

PRR: 9sorc+2pal+3epic=14bab*.66medium=9+4=13+14blueslot =27prr=15% mitigation / dp25bab*.66medium=16+4=20+14blueslot=34prr=18% mitigation

That said, having uninterruptible Recons for 500+ hp is tons better than interruptible scrolls for sub-400(along with better Rejuv Cocoon and Healing Spring even) and whatever else human has to offer. Although I haven't finished gearing this guy, and 15% mitigation is a huge difference. I guess I'll see what happens.

[doomteen007]

doomteen007,

The issue I see with all the increases in specialized schools from EDs is that it makes it harder and harder to be a diverse caster. Before EDs, you could get your off-specialty spells DCs to servicable levels. Now with the +3 from magister and +1 from epic spell focus the DCs of off-specialty schools are becoming worthless. This makes DC casters more and more worthless in different quests that require different spells and tactics. I do not feel this is good for the game. That is why I TRed into an easy button sorc/pally. Because if there is one thing Turbine cant nerf, it's DPS. Which is a shame, because I really enjoyed being one of the most useful players in the party with the lowest kill count

SO I ran my sorc through EE GH today, and am singing a very different tune. First, to address your point, this is true- you DO have to specialize more, which I don't take issue with at all, but I know many do.

Second, there is a SERIOUS issue with DPS spreads as they stand now. My wiz shiradi can get as much dps as my sorc, yet NEITHER keep up at all with the dps of melee's. I am now shelving my sorc (sadly, took forever to get his EE gear and greenscale docent was stupid draining on the resources and time), and focusing on my healer and monk, as they are the only two that come anywhere close to contributing enough in EE to be worth the party slot. My sorc, a caster, is WAY underpowered and under-dps'ing compared to melee's- that seems... wrong to me. (a 4th life, highly geared, maxed out sorc, for the record). The problem IMO is that mob save's keep going up, mob HP keep going up, melee damage keeps going up (better weapons) but caster DC's and damage...stay the same- still 120 spellpower, superior lore, major focus items. So while melee's saw approx 3-5d6 more damage per swing in this update, casters saw slot consolidation and thats it- so while this sorc is great and dandy in eveningstar, he is sadly only good enough for EH in GH, and therefor getting shelved

Best group at this point is 4 barbs with ESoS's, a bard with an ESoS for song dps increase and haste, and a good healer- a bunch of manyshot rangers are close second- casters have been given the back seat this update, which is ironic given how much caster gear came out -.-

[Tirisha]

Second, there is a SERIOUS issue with DPS spreads as they stand now. My wiz shiradi can get as much dps as my sorc, yet NEITHER keep up at all with the dps of melee's. I am now shelving my sorc (sadly, took forever to get his EE gear and greenscale docent was stupid draining on the resources and time), and focusing on my healer and monk, as they are the only two that come anywhere close to contributing enough in EE to be worth the party slot. My sorc, a caster, is WAY underpowered and under-dps'ing compared to melee's- that seems... wrong to me. (a 4th life, highly geared, maxed out sorc, for the record). The problem IMO is that mob save's keep going up, mob HP keep going up, melee damage keeps going up (better weapons) but caster DC's and damage...stay the same- still 120 spellpower, superior lore, major focus items. So while melee's saw approx 3-5d6 more damage per swing in this update, casters saw slot consolidation and thats it- so while this sorc is great and dandy in eveningstar, he is sadly only good enough for EH in GH, and therefor getting shelved

Best group at this point is 4 barbs with ESoS's, a bard with an ESoS for song dps increase and haste, and a good healer- a bunch of manyshot rangers are close second- casters have been given the back seat this update, which is ironic given how much caster gear came out -.-

O.o holy hell sounds like you have the opposite opinion as me.

I'm shelving my melees because they can't stand in combat long enough to get any competitive dps going since basic mobs can hit for 300+ and there is little reliable CC available.

So far my experience in EEGH has been, damage comes in way too fast on melees for a healer to be expected to heal through. Individual melees can SF pot or self heal but they spend so much time doing so they are a waste of space. and even with full CCed mobs very little out dpses my sharadi sorc.

The vast majority of my EEPOP rooms winds up with the melees dead and the healer/casters not wasting scrolls on them till the fight is over.

Note: I might pug too much.

[Viisari]

Best group at this point is 4 barbs with ESoS's, a bard with an ESoS for song dps increase and haste, and a good healer- a bunch of manyshot rangers are close second- casters have been given the back seat this update, which is ironic given how much caster gear came out -.-

What game are you playing? Barbs are almost useless these days and most end game players I know have either shelved theirs or are TR'ing them into something else.

Melees also don't do a lot more dps than shiradis do unless they're blitzing or using furymoment, heck, a shiradi sorc will out dps most puggies by just spamming magic missile and nothing else.

And if you happen to get joy of the queen then nothing short of a furyshot will out dps you. For example, I ran EE Tor yesterday and got joy for blue dragon. I took the blue dragon alone, rest of the group was on the giant. Dragon was ready before the giant...

Best group at the moment for just about anything would a bunch of highly survivable self-sufficient melees with furyshot coupled with a bard and a few shiradi sorcs. A group like that could down EE Truthful one in 10-15 minutes.

Note: I might pug too much.

I pug very little. Barbarians are basically a dead class for endgame as it stands. They might be capable of the highest melee dps but that matters little when they've almost nothing for survivability and no self-sufficiency. They rarely have access to furyshot either which in the end means that they fall behind even in dps.

[Azarddoze]

doomteen007,

The issue I see with all the increases in specialized schools from EDs is that it makes it harder and harder to be a diverse caster. Before EDs, you could get your off-specialty spells DCs to servicable levels. Now with the +3 from magister and +1 from epic spell focus the DCs of off-specialty schools are becoming worthless. This makes DC casters more and more worthless in different quests that require different spells and tactics. I do not feel this is good for the game. That is why I TRed into an easy button sorc/pally. Because if there is one thing Turbine cant nerf, it's DPS. Which is a shame, because I really enjoyed being one of the most useful players in the party with the lowest kill count

Now you can be the most useful player in the party with the highest kill count. I think it's a fair trade off.

[knockcocker]

What game are you playing? Barbs are almost useless these days and most end game players I know have either shelved theirs or are TR'ing them into something else.

Melees also don't do a lot more dps than shiradis do unless they're blitzing or using furymoment, heck, a shiradi sorc will out dps most puggies by just spamming magic missile and nothing else.

And if you happen to get joy of the queen then nothing short of a furyshot will out dps you. For example, I ran EE Tor yesterday and got joy for blue dragon. I took the blue dragon alone, rest of the group was on the giant. Dragon was ready before the giant...

I think it's joy of the mad queen you're talking about?

I'm finding Shiradi a bit too unpredictable for the Tor dragon fights.
Also, how are dealing with mantles?