The Mechadi Champion: a shiradi splashed sorcerer EE capable first life build

[Moltier]

I saw you in action a few times.
All those chaotic double rainbow effect spam and other goodies looks fun!

I quickly become bored with sorcerer when i did some past life, but this shiradi silliness makes it entertaining, while remaining very powerfull!

[Hobgoblin]

ok when do you take the pally levels?

im thinking for this one, its at 19 n 20?

hob

[WruntJunior]

I'm getting ready to try this build out myself - becoming unhappy with how even a 55 DC is working in EE on my wizard, and want something interesting to do with my favorite ED.

Would you say the paladin levels would be more useful at low levels (higher saves by mid levels but a bit less firepower for leveling) or high levels (lower saves for leveling, but more firepower early on)? Deciding between taking them at 9 and 10 compared to 19 and 20.

[nni]

Either 7 and 8 (just after fireball, leveled as fire savant) or 9 and 10 after firewall, I forget. The ~10 to all saves is nicer when leveling then spells a bit quicker IMO, once you get fireball/acid rain/firewall/acid blast you can level to cap off of just those if you are stubborn about it.

But, it isn't a leveling build to be honest, it is an endgame one and the focus is on that.

Quoted for reference.

[WruntJunior]

Quoted for reference.

Well that's a reading comprehension fail on my part.

Edit: I'll be doing 9 and 10, then...I want firewall for Delera's.

[Hobgoblin]

Well that's a reading comprehension fail on my part.

mine too. lol

[MRMechMan]

Updates: have switched to air savant, switched a few ED enhancements around, and a few spells as well-edited OP to reflect the changes. Glad everyone likes the build

[Iaga]

...edit: a +3 con tome is required if you want to get epic toughness. Run von6 for reds or go down that well for greens till you can buy one, yes they look expensive but plat comes easily if you work a bit for it!

....If you have any questions, feel free to post here or send me a PM. Thanks for readin

Might want to re-word that to say you need a 23 base con to qualify for epic toughness [your current set up doesn't qualify]. EDIT - i r an idjit, OP is right of course ...

...A few options here. I'd consider energy burst just about mandetory, it is very very strong...

Hugely strong. Draconic > Shiradi in anything other than EE for sure because of it. In EE though, is it fair to say it's a bit riskier because you have to get pretty close to the action to make it work?

...Tea with the queen sometimes gives +10 all saves (and sometimes +10 all stats for +10 all saves)...

+10 to all stats gives you +5 to all saves. EDIT - once again, OP is correct ... forgot the divine grace aspect of the stat buff

...Enhancements:
Nothing crazy...typical water savant stuff...air savant wouldn't be a bad choice either but IS more DC based
edit I have switched to air savant. Both are good. Any savant, really.
max repair
max force

This is a quote from Teth about AP's in a thread on shiradi proc's. Might be worth linking?

Yes aoe can proc shiradi. Only on initial cast or re-entry of the aoe spell. Best to kite mobs thru them constantly while throwing other spells.

Yes, spellpower does affect shiradi damage. The spellpower used to determine the dmg is the same as the proc. For example, if you throw magic missle and proc necrotic cloud it will use negative energy spellpower not force. Same goes if you were to throw a firewall and proc the 7% force dmg it would use force spell power not fire. Now to add to this, although it may seem a bit confusing, is the crit chance. All shiradi procs have a chance to crit for more damage. This differs in spellpower in that the shiradi proc crit chance is determined by the spell that procced it, not the proc itself. For example if i throw magic missle and proc absolute zero, it will use cold spellpower to determine the damage, but it will use my force crit enhancements/gear to determine if each tick will crit for more damage. Hope this is clear.

Yes metamagics affect shiradi procs. Keep in mind if you have your metamagics turned off when you cast a spell the shiradi proc will do less damage than if you had your metamagics. So finding balance between mana conservation and damage you want is never ending. Still to note: keep all metamagics on for the cheap SLA's.

Also note: most shiradi casters max force since those spells produce the most procs and there is a tasty tier 5 shiradi ability that procs force damage.

Otherwise i finally got my WF sorc to shiradi last night. Now to see if an optimized WF air savant optimized for shiradi is more effective than my fleshy air sorc who is a pretty solid toon ...

[Hobgoblin]

Might want to re-word that to say you need a 23 base con to qualify for epic toughness [your current set up doesn't qualify].

not speaking to the rest, but epic toughness is only base 21.

so 18 +3 tome will qualify

hob

[xTethx]

+10 to all stats gives you +5 to all saves.

Think he's including paladin divine grace which adds another 5 to saves from the +10 charisma.

[Iaga]

Heh, well, it would appear i should just crawl back under my rock!

Edits made ...

[gummolo]

What do you think of a 16 sor/2 mnk/2 pal split? Do you think it is too much to lose tier III Sav prestige for both evasion and high saves?

[MRMechMan]

Hugely strong. Draconic > Shiradi in anything other than EE for sure because of it. In EE though, is it fair to say it's a bit riskier because you have to get pretty close to the action to make it work?

If you cannot twist in energy burst, you are better off going draconic. Actually you are better off going a different destiny to get fate points so that you CAN twist it . If you can twist it, go shiradi.

EE is just riskier in general, of course, but energy burst is still stupidly good and worth twisting. With good keyboard skills you can get off an EB fairly risk-free. It is such an obvious choice that if you cannot twist in energy burst than the build really does suffer. teir4=energy burst, than a teir2 and a teir1 or 2x teir1s. +6 reflex or +10% spellpts+big echos or brace for impact are all good choices.

This is a quote from Teth about AP's in a thread on shiradi proc's. Might be worth linking?
Otherwise i finally got my WF sorc to shiradi last night. Now to see if an optimized WF air savant optimized for shiradi is more effective than my fleshy air sorc who is a pretty solid toon ...

Interesting stuff.

What do you think of a 16 sor/2 mnk/2 pal split? Do you think it is too much to lose tier III Sav prestige for both evasion and high saves?

18/2 paladin is a good split. 18/2 monk is a good split. Going from 20 sorc to 18 sorc doesn't lose much nuking power, and it's worth picking up the huge +saves or 2 feats and evasion instead.

Going from 18 sorc to 16 sorc DOES lose a lot of nuking power, and it isn't really worth picking up evasion for (or picking up the + to saves if you are already 18/2monk). Honestly, I don't miss evasion at all 99% of the time. With absorb gear, fireshield, +55-65 reflex save, sometimes 75% absorb joy, ability to do damage at a distance, and 500pt recons, and 30-40pt resists...evasion is just not really needed.

The 16/2/2 was a lot of fun (rolled one myself a year or 2 ago) but when savants came out, 18 sorc is really needed for endgame play...particularly with EDs and this build...the 16/2/2 tukaw is a melee build, this is pure magic because whacking something with a sword for 50 pts of damage or magic missling it for avg 200-300 (ok avgs are hard to compute ) means you'll never swing a sword (maybe abbot, or EE von5 when outta sp and ESOSing the golem).

The good thing about this build is that 90% of the time, sp is not an issue if you are smart about it. Bauble can last several minutes of energy bursting and MM spamming which are good contributions in a party/raid. Hell, you could do 12sorc/6pal/2monk if you wanted, still have all the spells that are spammable, and recon...would be playable is a lot of content...but that doesn't mean it's ideal.

[WruntJunior]

If you cannot twist in energy burst, you are better off going draconic. Actually you are better off going a different destiny to get fate points so that you CAN twist it . If you can twist it, go shiradi.

EE is just riskier in general, of course, but energy burst is still stupidly good and worth twisting. With good keyboard skills you can get off an EB fairly risk-free. It is such an obvious choice that if you cannot twist in energy burst than the build really does suffer. teir4=energy burst, than a teir2 and a teir1 or 2x teir1s. +6 reflex or +10% spellpts+big echos or brace for impact are all good choices.

I've actually found myself preferring Sense Weakness twisted to Energy Burst, in most content. Really wish I could go 4/4/1 on my twists, though. :P Really enjoying my air savant version, too....making EE High-Road quests super-easy, ands hould make eGH easy.

[xTethx]

I've actually found myself preferring Sense Weakness twisted to Energy Burst, in most content. Really wish I could go 4/4/1 on my twists, though. :P Really enjoying my air savant version, too....making EE High-Road quests super-easy, ands hould make eGH easy.

This. Sense weakness is by far superior to me in the ee quests where the mobs can be nerve venomed. But for anything below ee or ee quests where there are lots of mobs immune to the venom energy burst is the way to go. For egh sense weakness will be the way to run all the ee quests except for tor and the new raid.

[mikarddo]

Out of curiosity. When you solo EE quests with this build - do you do so without SP pots and/or recalling to get shrine outside?

[MRMechMan]

This. Sense weakness is by far superior to me in the ee quests where the mobs can be nerve venomed. But for anything below ee or ee quests where there are lots of mobs immune to the venom energy burst is the way to go. For egh sense weakness will be the way to run all the ee quests except for tor and the new raid.

Hmm maybe I will give sense weakness a shot. I am always willing to try new things to see what works and what doesn't, and most of all, what works BEST .

But I am mildly skeptical...energy burst is very addictive and doing 1.8 to helpless vs 1.5 to helpless doesn't seem THAT much better. Sure stuff is often helpless but I really only see that being useful against orange names. Trash dies fast anyway (and if it's helpless it isn't exactly a threat), and red names are immune anyway. But I'll give it a shot.

Out of curiosity. When you solo EE quests with this build - do you do so without SP pots and/or recalling to get shrine outside?

My guild is fairly anti-pots when it comes to raids/epic solos, basically any accomplishment...so it's been etched in my brain that drinking a pot=failure (on some level). And recalling out to use a shrine...well that even moreso. I guess it is still an EE solo but, in my view, the victory seems a bit flawed.

Luckily, this build is not an sp-hog and I have epic twisted talisman, twisted talisman, bauble, rss if needed, plus 30sp echos if desperate...but at that point I'd probably chug. I don't think I drank pots in house D solos, or von1-4, or carnival, or harbor chain, or eveningstar/underdark (haven't done EE BotB yet though)/demonweb...I'd probably be chugging in EE DA or EE DQ1 though...that's almost unavoidable.

[griffin_230]

Why not just cast it on yourself? 15% absorption is a very good thing to have personally

Will this stack with an item (e.g. a Green Steel item that has 15% absorption) that can absorb the same amount ?

[MRMechMan]

Will this stack with an item (e.g. a Green Steel item that has 15% absorption) that can absorb the same amount ?

Probably not. If there's a fire savant on Cannith I have a 10/15% fireabsorb stick and I could test the heat death ability. But like amounts generally don't stack.

I've been trying out other level 4 twists instead of energy burst (which I am thrilled with, but hey...the pursuit of perfection!)

-Stormrage

Ryumajin gave me the heads up about this ability. His sorc is slightly different-pure, high DC and human-but he gets good results from this. His build is higher dps but lower saves and no recon-not that he often needs it being a top player .

-Teir 4 ability from primal
-"Enemies damaged by your attacks or spells are also struck by lightning, dealing 10d20 electric damage, halved on a reflex save vs. DC 50. Lightning strikes up to one enemy each second. You also gain featherfall and Deflect Arrows. Lasts 18 seconds"
-ends up being ~20,000-25000 damage per minute but 167 sp per minute, and only single target. Assuming no saves which even with 50 DC isn't always a good assumption in EE.

Quite a bit more boss dps but quite expensive. It also looks cool.

-Sense Weakness

-Teir 4 ability from Fury
-"You deal [10/20/30]% extra damage to helpless targets."
-How much DPS you gain is equal to how much DPS you are doing...if you are doing 60,000 total damage per minute to a target that can be made helpless, with this twisted that will boost it up to 78000.
-ZERO sp cost
-ZERO activation time (passive)

A few issues though, at least for me:
-useless for red/purple names
-nerve venom CAN lock down a target making it helpless...or it might not proc at all before the target dies.
-some things are immune to nerve venom
-if something is helpless, extra dps is not all THAT useful compared to one that is attacking back
-orange names, which this is most useful against, are rarely a threat anyway.
-very rarely are you spamming non-stop for a minute+ at a time on helplessable targets (bosses, sure). The natural breaks in combat, that give Energy burst a chance to recharge, favor that.

-Energy Burst

-Teir 4 ability from draconic
-"Waves of [fire/cold/acid/electric] emanate from your body dealing [1d10+10/1d12+12/1d15+15] [fire/cold/acid/electric] damage per character level (reflex save DC 20 + 1/2 character level + INT/CHA modifier for half damage)."
-hits for ~3400 on avg including crits (assuming no saves which isn't always a great assumption in EE)
-ends up being 6800 damage per minute and 40sp per minute, and is AOE (but is centered on self)

Cheap, AOE, with good cha can get close to 50 DC so similar to stormrage. I prefer this over stormrage. Interestingly, stormrage is ~3-4x the dps gained and ~3-4x the sp used as well. But the AOE nature of energy burst is very addictive.


It all boils down to personal preference...and perhaps the content being run. Aggressive playstyle and don't mind using pots-stormrage is looking good. Undead content? Sense weakness not a great choice. Lots of demons-stormrage and elec energy burst both looking weaker. Running with some stunbot monks in cabal? Will get more bang for your buck from sense weakness. Etc etc...there is no right answer, and more options are always better.

Luckily, switching twists of fate takes under a minute, or under 10 seconds if not rearanging fate points. So feel free to experiment.

[griffin_230]

Probably not. If there's a fire savant on Cannith I have a 10/15% fireabsorb stick and I could test the heat death ability. But like amounts generally don't stack.

Yeah, I suspect the Shiradi Elemental Absorption won't stack with the item elemental absorption because of the same amounts.