Eschew Materials

[nat_1]

After a couple of years of DDO, it’s finally happened to me: I have an opinion.
I know it’s a bad idea to get into a build discussion in party chat, but this opinion has made me go against my better judgment and do just that when I hear an endorsement of this feat.

The purpose of this post is to 1) enable me to link in game to my opinion so I can a) avoid typing my arguments repeatedly probably incompletely and b) hopefully have somebody read them without getting heated in party chat for being criticized. And 2) throw this open to somebody changing my mind.

Eschew Materials - Your spells cost 2 more spellpoints and removes need for normal material components. Especially expensive material components, such as for Stoneskin and Trap the Soul, are still required.

I. Eschew Materials stands resource allocation on its head

1. Clickies
2. Consumables
3. SLAs
4. Spells/SP
5. Enhancements
6. Feats
7. TP

Given a task, this is the general order in which I try to accomplish it. For example, if I have a restoration clicky I would use it before a restoration potion or a restoration spell. If I have Undying Call off cooldown I would use it before a raise spell that costs sp. When I apply this order to EM the feat does not do well. It uses a feat and SP to do the job of consumables. Stop a moment, reread that last sentence.

While the SP cost is low, this is still a drain on the blue bar. Once empty, the choices are pike, SP clickies, in game SP pots, or TP SP pots. In game SP pots are something I carefully hoard for times when it’s cast or wipe, and if EM leads you to use a pot you are saving cp and using something not available for purchase. As for TP pots, I won’t say I never used them in a jam, but I’m not willing to use them all the time and I make every effort to reduce things that make me need them. TP is my last resort, and EM makes it more likely that I will end up there.

II. Eschew Materials is beneficial in between quests, not in quests.

Whether solo or in a group, I am of the opinion that my builds should be designed to complete quests. EM saves a trip to a vendor, which is between quests.

To avoid running out of materials in quests, I have an ingredients bar. In an out of the way place, at the edge of the screen because it will not need to be easily clicked, I drag each level of components for reference. This prevents me from running out of components because it’s always on my screen instead of scattered through my inventory.

Components cost next to nothing, with the exception of the Stoneskin component, which EM does not work on, so the plat saved is minimal.

As stated earlier, EM has an SP cost, however minimal, so a caster with EM running is less likely to make it to the end of a quest with the ability to cast. So EM trades out of quest convenience for in quest inconvenience, and to me this is undesirable.

III. I put my thang down flip it and reverse it

Let’s stand EM on its head. Imagine that you could trade 9 inventory slots for an extra feat and a 2 sp discount on all spells. I would take this in a heartbeat on almost any build. If you wouldn’t, OK, we can agree to disagree, but I feel like eventually everyone has a build with tight feat selection, and thought “Man what I would give for one more feat.”

I’ve sometimes wondered how people can get worked up enough to rant/PSA about some aspect of the game, but now I are those people. It’s been a difficult task not writing this ironically, I’m going to have to be sarcastic to everybody for the rest of the day now to make up for it. I’m a smart-asterisk by nature, which has led to difficulty in party chat expressing myself kindly on this topic, so I plan to use this post rather than argue in chat.

I have no argument against "But I like Eschew Materials" because everybody gets to play what they like, so if you like it, even after the bashing I tried to give it, then take it and enjoy.

[Chai]

Solution. Take one of your hotbars, turn it on its side on the right hand side of the screen. Put your spell components for each level into the same numbered square on the hotbar. You now have a visable-at-all-times meter of how supplied you are for components. Sounds like the OP is on top of this, everyone else should be too.

Due to the nature of metagaming in DDO, eschew materials is a waste of a feat. We have not seen a situation yet where someone all your components disappear, other than people forgetting to buy another pile of components, which is more comical than anything else.

[Doganpc]

Its not for everyone as has been pointed out, but in a sense it saves me TP cause I don't have components filling my inventory prompting me to buy more inventory from store.

Dogan
Very happy with 2 free ingredients bags too.

[DoctorWhofan]

I put all my ingrediants in one backpack. I also don't lock them so when I am selling, I can see how many I have. Eschew materials is such a waste of a feat. It frees up, what? 10 backpack slots. With 5 backpacks it is fine. With a gem, ingrediant, collectible bags, not to mention quivers it is fine.

[Rawel_San]

+1 Well argued post.

Just slightly too much work to say EM sucks worse then any other feat in the game bar
skill focus: listen and even then it's a toss up.

[danotmano1998]

Agreed.

Here's your cost savings for taking this feat:
Component cost from DDO wiki:

Level 1: 5 silver each
Level 2: 2 gold
Level 3: 5 gold
Level 4: 1 plat
Level 5: 3 plat
Level 6: 10 plat
Level 7: 30 plat
Level 8: 50 plat
Level 9: 100 plat

I've found that acquiring extra platinum is not a difficult task.
I've racked up 300K plus in platinum on a level 20 sorceror with no effort whatsoever. Being lazy, selling EVERYTHING to the barkeep, buying AH items without regard to costs, and even giving platinum and gear away to new players.

Acquiring extra feats? I wish !

[Postumus]

Great points OP. Well thought out post.

Eschew is just one of those feats that doesn't translate into the video game genre well where everything is basically weightless and without mass.

[shawnvw]

I have the highest respect for the reasoned and mature way in which the OP presented a case that I disagree with. I intend to explain my view without attacking or insulting. (Well, I always try to do that. But even so, kudos pal.)

I tried the trick of putting all my components on a hot bar. I still run out, because I don't have enough screen space to have them all in view at a time. Even if I did, I'm no good at keeping track of everything.

Plus the fact that I'm a failure at inventory management. I always manage to fill up my pack during quests.

So, at 18th level, I'm too old to change my ways, and I need the eight pack slots and one less thing to think about. With 1400sp, I won't miss the cost too much either.

One more thing: Isn't there a magic item that provides Eschew Materials? I should get one.

[blade_of_will]

I think on my caster's next life im going to pick it up and trade out once I get back into amrath/epics. Yes, I feel it's a waste of a feat slot (I feel the same about extend, but people are allowed to take that D: ), but until you get into endgame stuff you dont really need all your feats. Wizards arent really feat starved. If people can take extend for the convenience of having to buff less often and not be told its a waste, I feel eschew should be the same :P

[Tid12]

If you feel you are running out of components, just buy 2 stacks of 990 each. Before you run out of them, you have probably looked into your inventory and noticed they are almost gone.

[thegreatneil]

Would a spell component bag be to much to ask for?

[Brennie]

Would a spell component bag be to much to ask for?

Devs have commented that the current engine doesn't support using items from within a bag very well. Spell Component bags were troublesome, and therefor put on the back burner.

I agree completely with the OP. Even is Eschew Materials cost no spell points and covered *all* components (Death pact/stoneskin/trap-the-soul, etc), i would *STILL* argue that caster classes are feat-starved enough that they could easily find something more productive to fill that feat slot with (Heck, even an extra spell pen/spell focus!)

As for workarounds - Buy in bulk, and stay organized. Whenever I get a new spell that requires components, i buy a stack of 1000. It takes me a month+ to get low enough to want to restock. I also have my spell components in order on the first page of my inventory, so that i cannot help but check in on them at a glace anytime i open my backpack. if 200 or under, i restock. Easypeasy!

Worst case scenario - if you do manage to completely forget, then you have one quest where you are unable to use a single spell level, and then you go restock ALL spell components. Easy peasy part deux

[jaegarnel]

There are actually people who think Eschew Materials is a good feat?
It does nothing except save you some inventory space (and while I sometimes run out of space, it's not enough of an annoyance to take a feat for it, even on a wizard who has lots of feats) and some money.

If it actually worked on spells like stoneskin and create undead that have expensive components, I could see an argument for taking it on a low-level first toon, since money is really tight then, and then swap it later.

But as it is, Eschew Materials is probably one of the worst feats in the game. Unlike other feats, it does not add any new abilities to your character, or improve upon existing ones, it only adds a bit of convenience for the player.

[Boegvar]

Eschew materials can be good in pnp, you dont have always the opportunity to buy new spell components, and havent the carrying capacity like in ddo.
Just fill up every component you are using to 990-1000 once every 2 days and you will be fine. I started my arcane casters with 8 base str, and it works fine, just use the right str item for your level.
Every char has to check consumables, i expect everyone to have remove curse potions, lesser restoration potions and other means of healing, at least after level 4-5.

[Chilldude]

The question you have to ask yourself is, "Have you ever run out of a material component during a quest?" If you answered no, then chances are you have put some time and effort into spell component management. The more time and effort you put in to it, the less likely you are to run out. However, the reciprocal is also true, to reduce the chance of running out you have to invest time and effort into component management.

Sure, it might not be much, but it's one more thing you have to check and keep track of. It's one more thing you have to buy, which means popping in to the portable hole and buying a couple hundred of this and a couple hundred of that. You have to scroll up and down and and click, click, click. It's not terrifically difficult, but it does take time to do, and you do have to do it with some frequency, so that time adds up. Let's pull a number out of thin air... 1 refill for every 5 hours of questing. Could be less often for some, could be more often for others, the real point however is that for every x hours of questing you have to spend a few minutes restocking. Doesn't seem like much on the surface, but after a few months of questing several hours a night, that could add up to a couple hours of time spent restocking.

Then consider a few of those much more important feats. Maximize, empower, extend, enlarge... just how important are they really? They are situational at best. Certainly couldn't say that you couldn't get by without any one of them. One could probably make a pretty good argument that a save feat would be much more important than all of them. Yet a higher save isn't quite as sexy as hitting the boss with a giant crit, is it? Would you want to give up your maximize for iron will? Probably not. Do people try to make you stupid because you took maximize over iron will? Not until now probably.

A person can pick up Eschew as a safety net.
A person can pick up Eschew as a time saver.
A person can pick up Eschew as a plat saver.
A person can pick up Eschew as a luxury.

Are there better feats that the person should have taken? Not for them.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I don't have eschew on my sorc even though I could easily afford it both feat wise and mana wise and yes, I do have both maximize and empower instead of iron will and whatever reflex save. Hey, I like to blow stuff up just as much as you do.

If you want to get down to brass tacks, the only feat anyone should ever take is toughness, each and every time. But what would be the fun in that?

[xtchizobr]

if you like it, even after the bashing I tried to give it, then take it and enjoy.

better yet, post the name of all your characters in this thread so i can blacklist them.

[Hendrik]

I like it.

With the change to Extend, why not? WIZ capstone lowers the cost to 1 SP for EM.

I'll keep it and play with it for awhile as it is working for me.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Fwiw, I like it on my pure 20 wiz build. But then, I play one character who hoards everything so 9 inventory slots is invaluable.

[soulaeon]

Due to the nature of metagaming in DDO, eschew materials is a waste of a feat. We have not seen a situation yet where someone all your components disappear, other than people forgetting to buy another pile of components, which is more comical than anything else.

Due to how they basically gave us free Enlarges on all our ranged spells, we should just get Escew as a free feat.
Why do we get free Sunder and Trip? These should be replaced by Escew and Enlarge, while Sunder and Trip be restricted to other classes. It makes no sense for wizards and sorcerers to have feats for which they traditionally have no experience to study.

[blade_of_will]

Sure, it might not be much, but it's one more thing you have to check and keep track of. It's one more thing you have to buy, which means popping in to the portable hole and buying a couple hundred of this and a couple hundred of that. You have to scroll up and down and and click, click, click. It's not terrifically difficult, but it does take time to do, and you do have to do it with some frequency, so that time adds up. Let's pull a number out of thin air... 1 refill for every 5 hours of questing. Could be less often for some, could be more often for others, the real point however is that for every x hours of questing you have to spend a few minutes restocking. Doesn't seem like much on the surface, but after a few months of questing several hours a night, that could add up to a couple hours of time spent restocking.

ctrl + left click helps