Pure/Splash?

[Hawkeye_926]

Howdy;

So the dilema is should I splash 2 levels of Fighter on a 99.9% bear form druid (Dwarf) or stay pure and go for the Capstone. I've spec'ed out both via the character planner and both look good. I'm already at 6 and figured I'd have decided by now but I just can't decide.

The background to keep the thread in check
- Why druid - they are self sufficient, not huge DPS but can do heals/buffs and can solo most of the content.
- Why bear - cause they are just cool, and I am a melee style player.
- Why fighter - I'm F2P so don't have monk.
- Why Dwarf - cause that's all I play, also cause they are cool. (though I really did think that the D-Axe enhancements would be good, but druids can't use D-Axes apparently???)

Both look good at 20 but need to splash in Fighter soon if I'm going to do it. I just need something to sway me one way or another...

Thoughts?
Tanks.

[FuzzyDuck81]

For a melee druid, the main benefit of staying pure is naturally the capstone, reducing the cooldown penalty on spells. A 2 level fighter splash though will naturally be 2 more feats, all martial weapon proficiencies, which will include dwarven axes for a dwarf (though base damage etc. doesnt matter in animal form, so can use cheap rubbish weapon types just as well for a fraction of the price.. not sure if the enhancements for a particular weapon type still work though)... oh, and you'll also get heavy armour proficiency, so can wear dragonscale plate to get more AC & PRR.

Pretty much your call on what you prefer, though if you're playing a tanky type its unlikely you'll be solely responsible for healing yourself so i'd go with the splash, personally.

[wildbynature]

I guess splashing would depend on what you're going for. If you're going for sword and board with double strike feats, splashing in two fighter would really help. If you're going for more of a faster tank or a stick build, you should be fine with staying pure.

From what you're telling me about staying in bear form a lot, it sounds like you might want to be a little tankier, so I would go sword and board with both shield mastery feats, 3 natural fighting feats, empower heal for late game healing. With all of the feats, it's helpful to splash two fighter. That would be my main reason.

My Druid is only lvl 3, but everyone has told me, "use no metal". I'm not sure how getting the proficientcy from the 2 fighter would work, but I'm told that using metal shields/ weapons the Druid isn't proficient with breaks the Druidic oath, and you won't be able to use any of their abilities. It's like being a monk and being uncentered.

My TR is on her Druid life, and I'm still learning the class, but it seems to me like you could do either and gt by just fine.

[wildbynature]

I guess splashing would depend on what you're going for. If you're going for sword and board with double strike feats, splashing in two fighter would really help. If you're going for more of a faster tank or a stick build, you should be fine with staying pure.

From what you're telling me about staying in bear form a lot, it sounds like you might want to be a little tankier, so I would go sword and board with both shield mastery feats, 3 natural fighting feats, empower heal for late game healing. With all of the feats, it's helpful to splash two fighter. That would be my main reason.

My Druid is only lvl 3, but everyone has told me, "use no metal". I'm not sure how getting the proficientcy from the 2 fighter would work, but I'm told that using metal shields/ weapons the Druid isn't proficient with breaks the Druidic oath, and you won't be able to use any of their abilities. It's like being a monk and being uncentered.

My TR is on her Druid life, and I'm still learning the class. I have the advantage, though, of being able to take some advice from a few really good Druids, and I feel pretty confident in passing this information along to you.

[smeggy1384]

When in animal form being proficient with a weapon or not doesn't seem to matter, you're still an animal using what is considered unarmed attacks. Go with a shield setup, the double strike from the feats is worth it, and you can actually afford them as a pure druid. Should even have room for augment summon and empower heal. If you have to choose between those two take empower heal.

On my first life as a druid i splashed rogue to handle traps, got all natural fighting and both shield feats, empower heal and ran around as a wolf tearing things up. Second life i tried bear a few times, slight bonus to con and AC but attacked so much slower, and the spell type attacks didn't compare to damage done by wolf ones. If you're hunting skeletons better off using a 1 or 2 handed blunt weapon than playing bear.

As for metal armor you need to avoid it, it does break your druidic oath. I honestly don't know what the drawbacks are, but the notification is a bit annoying so i avoid the metal armor :P

[FuzzyDuck81]

As for metal armor you need to avoid it, it does break your druidic oath. I honestly don't know what the drawbacks are, but the notification is a bit annoying so i avoid the metal armor :P

The drawbacks of breaking your oath are not being able to use druidic abilities & i think also druid spells - at least in theory, tho never actually bothered to break it to find out

Non-metal means at low to mid levels you'll be stuck mainly using light armour - though dragontouched & dragonscale aren't metal so theyre fine even as heavy (which you'll be proficient in with the fighter splash) if you want to go for maximum PRR - also at high levels theres stuff like the terrorweb chitin & leaves of the forest which are non-metal medium armours too.

Shields you'll generally be stuck with light/heavy wooden ones, though the madstone shield (tower shield) has crystal as its material so thats fine (i predict the epic version being much sought-after once epic gianthold goes live) also apparantly sticking the crystal property on an alchemical tower shield will change its material & make it ok to use too.

[unbongwah]

FWIW, I posted a pure (human) bear druid build here yesterday. Being a dwarf means giving up a feat, though, on what's already a feat-starved build. Are you going STR- or WIS-based? STR-based means you're focusing on melee, which suggests to me that you need the extra feats more; whereas WIS-based means you're focusing on casting / DCs, in which case the capstone w/reduced cooldown penalty is probably more important.

[Hawkeye_926]

Thanks all,

I'm leaning towards splashing the fighter in, tower shields and heavy dragonscale armor are pretty good incentives. I will be running sword and board as well so want to have room for shield feats.

I started with 17 str and 15 wis so hoping, based off what I've read, 15 should be enough for a decent tremor every once in a while

By heals I mean self healing with a pocket cleric to solo "all content". I tend to avoid pugs and have a couple guild characters that I run if I feel like chatting. Maybe I should have played a lone wolf build ... LOL

Let's face it the bear is a bit lacking in slaying power (DPS), but they are self sufficient, fun to play and a bit different than just Barb swinging a big ol' Axe. If I wanted to max out a DPS toon I'd just copy a fighter or Barb build and be complaining how DDO is too easy a few weeks from now. =)

[Hedd]

A quick question on the bear/fighter mix, is Stalwart Defender and Bear form stacking properly? Last thing I found on it was an overlap bug where bear would overwrite Stalwart Defender's PRR a few months ago. I'm fairly certain the SD bonus isn't a racial bonus either.

[Mubjon]

A quick question on the bear/fighter mix, is Stalwart Defender and Bear form stacking properly? Last thing I found on it was an overlap bug where bear would overwrite Stalwart Defender's PRR a few months ago. I'm fairly certain the SD bonus isn't a racial bonus either.

Not sure if that is WAI or not, but I would not take SD with bear form, opt for the Kensaii for added DPS. Although I am not sure if that would even work in animal form.

I have not found a reason to splash more than 2 levels on a druid, they are just that much fun.

[azrael4h]

My Druid is only lvl 3, but everyone has told me, "use no metal". I'm not sure how getting the proficientcy from the 2 fighter would work, but I'm told that using metal shields/ weapons the Druid isn't proficient with breaks the Druidic oath, and you won't be able to use any of their abilities.

You cannot use any shields or armor that are made of metal, but you can use any weapon, proficient or not, metal or not. I carry a Dwarven axe for my test Druid right now just fine.

Originally, my plan was Half-Elf Fighter dilettante and using two-handed weapons. I did that for awhile on my test Druid, and worked out fine, just substandard for what I wanted. I used the free LR to switch to a Wolf melee.

[Lonnbeimnech]

I noticed a dramatic increase in self healing at level 20, because that 2.5 times cooldown reduced to 1.5 is huge. stay pure

[Daemoneyes]

I noticed a dramatic increase in self healing at level 20, because that 2.5 times cooldown reduced to 1.5 is huge. stay pure

That increase is useless if you go for melee-shaper
Just use 2 different heals and you are set.
I have cure serious and critical on my short-bar both normal and maximized, its more then enough healing.

9 druid is also enough, it gets you great selfheal & dire-shape & natural fighting
more is only optional, i would go for fighter to fit in more feats as bear
also evasion should be given a thought, its just to good to not have it

[barn]

For a melee druid, the main benefit of staying pure is naturally the capstone, reducing the cooldown penalty on spells. A 2 level fighter splash though will naturally be 2 more feats, all martial weapon proficiencies, which will include dwarven axes for a dwarf (though base damage etc. doesnt matter in animal form, so can use cheap rubbish weapon types just as well for a fraction of the price.. not sure if the enhancements for a particular weapon type still work though)... oh, and you'll also get heavy armour proficiency, so can wear dragonscale plate to get more AC & PRR.

Pretty much your call on what you prefer, though if you're playing a tanky type its unlikely you'll be solely responsible for healing yourself so i'd go with the splash, personally.

if you splash 1 lvl of fighter and are already a dwarf u should have the feat u need to use the dwaxe, dump the heavy armor feat for something like extend spell so your buffs can last longer and the tower shield feat for something else that will benefit your style of play, tower shields will keep you from casting spells too often but large or small shields are a nice ac bonus, the carved bone shield is what i am using at the moment but plan on using Wall of Wood when i reach lvl 15. i also am using Bracers of Deftness that i am switching out for Thaarak Bracelet at lvl 15. I'm going to stick with my Parasitic Breastplate being its light armor and has a nice ac, picked up Jorgundal's Collar,Intricate Field Optics,Helm of White Dragon,Globe of Imperial Blood,Ring of Master Artificer,Health +6 belt of light fort,Feather fall ring of balance+10, and Striding +25% Boots of tumbling +5, along with a alchemical weapon. I had a lot of this gear from my 1st life as a Ranger 10/Ftr 9/Rogue 1. i am soloing the quest line for the Parasitic armor with a hire in water ele form my build is wis but because of the white dragon helm they are both at 22 due to the +2 supreme tome i used last life. thus far i am druid 13/fighter 1 about to go monk 1 and cant wait to see what end game is going to be like.

[unbongwah]

That increase is useless if you go for melee-shaper
Just use 2 different heals and you are set.

A melee druid who isn't using their DPS spells as well is just wasting its potential; the capstone cooldown reduction affects them as well. I think it affects animal-form abilities too, but I won't swear to that.

Of course, a heavily-MCed druid is a different beast entirely (if you'll pardon the obvious pun). But the real appeal of a pure Nature's Warrior is strong melee and caster DPS and self-sufficiency (IMHO). The main drawback is the lack of Evasion; but that can be added via Primal Avatar or Shadowdancer.

[falcon8]

if you splash 1 lvl of fighter and are already a dwarf u should have the feat u need to use the dwaxe, dump the heavy armor feat for something like extend spell so your buffs can last longer and the tower shield feat for something else that will benefit your style of play, tower shields will keep you from casting spells too often but large or small shields are a nice ac bonus

I'm confused: If I splash in 1 Fighter, how do I dump Heavy Armor & Tower Shield proficiency feats for Extend or some other feat? Aren't those inherent class features, ie non-removable?

Also, why would Tower Shields keep you from casting? Spell Failure doesn't apply to Druid as they are Divine casters...

[Innara]

I'm confused: If I splash in 1 Fighter, how do I dump Heavy Armor & Tower Shield proficiency feats for Extend or some other feat? Aren't those inherent class features, ie non-removable?

He means if you took those feats separately, you can now dump it as the fighter level would give them for free.

Also, why would Tower Shields keep you from casting? Spell Failure doesn't apply to Druid as they are Divine casters...

It will not, Druids don't have arcane spell failure as they're not arcane casters. If you have umd and use certain arcane scrolls, you will see it pop up tho.