Pure Monk with Druid PL Flame Blade - advice?

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

So I'm on my third life and wanted to get Monk out of the way early because I could never really get into the class with all the special attacks and being a mouse clicker instead of a key presser. But I got the Razer Naga mouse now, so that should help alot for me in using the special attacks (so much easier to click the buttons on the side with my thumb than pressing the keys, lol).

Anyway, I digress... I'm level 4 now. Going Helf 2-weapon fighter with Rogue Dilly and heading towards Ninja Spy. My question is Feat related. The Druid PL feat gives three clickies of Flame Blade which last until you swap weapons, so three clickies is plenty if I want to two-weapon fight as the Monk with scimitars, but I did need to take the scimitar proficiency feat as well. I like the Flame Blade because it bypasses alot of DR, doesn't boot my stance, uses Wis for att/dam and there are a number of synergies I can achieve with fire as well. But now it seems I may need to take OS Two-Weapon as well. But do I really? What feats on a Monk build are absolutely necessary? The Feats I currently have planned are:

H/E Rogue Dilly
WP: Scimitar
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Dodge
Mobility
SA
PA
Toughness

I'd like to fit IC somewhere into there, if the Flame Blade works out then IC:Slashing should be there, but what to replace? I do bounce around alot so I figured Mobility/SA would be worth it for me but maybe they aren't?

I'm duoing with Hubby who is doing a Wizard this life, if that matters. He'll get alot of agro but we've built his toon around that somewhat and when I come in to save the day, I'll have some nice backstab dps to deal with the baddies on him.

Keep in mind, I've never played a Monk before so I'm learning as I go, which is fun, but if anyone has some interesting advice on this build that can help me, I'd much appreciate it.

Cheers.

PS: Stats started 15/15/14/9/17/8. I have +3 tomes for all stats already eaten. All level ups to Wisdom.

[SeltarisTsurinato]

Leave the flame blades off. Monk unarmed dps is going to be ridiculously higher due to faster attack animation, and when you add in wind stance and scaling monk damage dice for unarmed, it goes right off the charts.

[sebastianosmith]

Hey Cedrica-the-Bard,

Let me open by saying that you really, genuinely - in no uncertain terms - do not want to run a monk using scimitars. Your monk will never be in stance and hence not have any ki or stance benefits while you have them equipped. Scimitars will relegate the poor creature to a 3/4 BAB fighter with fewer feats.

The basic design allows for three weapon types to stay centered; handwraps, kamas and quarterstaves. There are a few other specialty weapons they can use given the correct feats such as long bows with Zen Archery and long swords with Whirling Steel Strike. Ninja Spy adds short swords. The main issue with all of the monk weapons, aside from wraps, is that they limit your base damage to whatever n[W] the weapon has. Wraps are keyed to the innate base damage of the monk which, unaltered, tops out at 3.5[d6]. You will want to use wraps most of the time.

As for taking an active Druid PL for Flame Blade, I would consider it a wasted feat past level 8 as your unarmed base damage will have surpassed it.

I hope some of this has made sense and I wish you the best with your new monk.

[EDIT]

Upon re-reading your post, it appears you are under the impression that WP: Scimitar is required for using Flame Blade on a monk. I assure you this is not the case, but I still can't say I'd recommend taking the PL for such an ability on a monk.

Best of luck.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

More to report...

First, Flame Blade actually does allow the Monk to stay centered and all of the Ki strikes work with it too. I know that because my Druid past life was a Drunk and I've been using it in this life. So it's very handy on this Monk at the lower levels, red damage to just about everything because it is fire damage, not slashing damage. Plus the hit/damage does come from Wisdom, so it works really well.

However, you do get a "you aren't proficient" warning unless you take WP: Scimitar.

I am level 6 now and have been reading alot to learn more and practicing. My handwrap situation is decent, I have Devotion and Eternal Rest but I have yet to get the Stonedust Wraps or the Devout Handwraps. So I plan to keep the two Feats (WP:Scimitar and Druid Past Life: Flame Blade) until Level 11 or so and than I'll switch them out and go with Handwraps and Short Swords (I have lots of SS for situational use if I need to get through specific DR or whatever). Hopefully by then I'll have farmed Shadow Crypt and Eyes of Stone enough to get the two handwraps I'm missing.

At the end of the day, I'll have Stunning Fist, Improved Martial Arts, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Toughness, IC: Bludgeoning, Dodge, Mobility and Power Attack.

So my next question when the time comes is whether or not I should get Spring Attack instead of either Power Attack or GTWF. But I can figure that out when I get to 18.

But for now, the Flame Blade is actually kinda awesome at the low levels.

EDIT: Oops! Improved Martial Arts is an Epic Feat. My bad, gotta fix that. I guess I can get Spring Attack after all.

[ArcaneArcher52689]

So I'm on my third life and wanted to get Monk out of the way early because I could never really get into the class with all the special attacks and being a mouse clicker instead of a key presser. But I got the Razer Naga mouse now, so that should help alot for me in using the special attacks (so much easier to click the buttons on the side with my thumb than pressing the keys, lol).

Anyway, I digress... I'm level 4 now. Going Helf 2-weapon fighter with Rogue Dilly and heading towards Ninja Spy. My question is Feat related. The Druid PL feat gives three clickies of Flame Blade which last until you swap weapons, so three clickies is plenty if I want to two-weapon fight as the Monk with scimitars, but I did need to take the scimitar proficiency feat as well. I like the Flame Blade because it bypasses alot of DR, doesn't boot my stance, uses Wis for att/dam and there are a number of synergies I can achieve with fire as well. But now it seems I may need to take OS Two-Weapon as well. But do I really? What feats on a Monk build are absolutely necessary? The Feats I currently have planned are:

H/E Rogue Dilly
WP: Scimitar
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Dodge
Mobility
SA
PA
Toughness

I'd like to fit IC somewhere into there, if the Flame Blade works out then IC:Slashing should be there, but what to replace? I do bounce around alot so I figured Mobility/SA would be worth it for me but maybe they aren't?

I'm duoing with Hubby who is doing a Wizard this life, if that matters. He'll get alot of agro but we've built his toon around that somewhat and when I come in to save the day, I'll have some nice backstab dps to deal with the baddies on him.

Keep in mind, I've never played a Monk before so I'm learning as I go, which is fun, but if anyone has some interesting advice on this build that can help me, I'd much appreciate it.

Cheers.

PS: Stats started 15/15/14/9/17/8. I have +3 tomes for all stats already eaten. All level ups to Wisdom.

stats look pretty good, no need for all level ups to be in wis, i'd just do 3pts to qualify for vorpal strikes.

as for feats, mobility, spring attack, and WP: Scimitar are useless, take stunning fist, +1 of the feats for shintao (cleave is my preference), and improved sunder. I know you said you want to go ninja spy, but it's really useful to be able to swap back and forth just with a single feat swap. Especially since light path is better until you get Touch of Death @9.
so, my feat list would be:
twf, toughness
PA
cleave
dodge, imp sunder (or druid PL)
itwf
ic: blunt
gtwf
lots of options for lvl 18
vorp strikes & improved martial arts for epic

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

stats look pretty good, no need for all level ups to be in wis, i'd just do 3pts to qualify for vorpal strikes.

as for feats, mobility, spring attack, and WP: Scimitar are useless, take stunning fist, +1 of the feats for shintao (cleave is my preference), and improved sunder. I know you said you want to go ninja spy, but it's really useful to be able to swap back and forth just with a single feat swap. Especially since light path is better until you get Touch of Death @9.
so, my feat list would be:
twf, toughness
PA
cleave
dodge, imp sunder (or druid PL)
itwf
ic: blunt
gtwf
lots of options for lvl 18
vorp strikes & improved martial arts for epic

Thanks for the tips, made me realize Improved Martial Arts was an Epic Feat! Silly me... I won't bother switching back and forth between Light and Dark though. My goal is to get to 20 and be on to the next class for Completionist. But that is good advice on Cleave if I were to do that.

Also, I discovered I need to put one of my level ups to Con instead of Wisdom to qualify for the super duper Earth stance. I like the sounds of it and the Fire one, so I want those. I'll leave Water and Air behind for now, even though they seem rather decent too.

I won't be doing any raiding or grouping with this life, hubby and I are just gonna plow through all the content the two of us can do while (hopefully) having fun. So I just want to keep it as simple as possible.

[sebastianosmith]

However, you do get a "you aren't proficient" warning unless you take WP: Scimitar.

I don't think that's WAI. Have you checked your actual to-hit when receiving that warning? The spell description for Flame Blade clearly states:

"Because they are an extension of the caster's will, monks may use these weapons without becoming uncentered. The flame blade is not a physical weapon, but rather pure flame shaped by the caster's will;"

This implies, to me at least, that it's not an actual scimitar but a magical representation of one. As such, physical weapon limitations should not apply. Of course, as with so many things in this game, expedience and not logic may have more to do with it.

Well, best of luck with your character.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

I don't think that's WAI. Have you checked your actual to-hit when receiving that warning? The spell description for Flame Blade clearly states:

"Because they are an extension of the caster's will, monks may use these weapons without becoming uncentered. The flame blade is not a physical weapon, but rather pure flame shaped by the caster's will;"

This implies, to me at least, that it's not an actual scimitar but a magical representation of one. As such, physical weapon limitations should not apply. Of course, as with so many things in this game, expedience and not logic may have more to do with it.

Well, best of luck with your character.

Yup, that's how it works in this case. I assumed like you did that I would automatically have what was needed. But when I got Flame Blade at level 3 and started using it, I was getting the -4 penalty for not being proficient with Scimitars. So I switched out a feat and got it and *poof*, the -4 and the exclamation went away... Go figure.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

Seeing some curious things with the Flame Blade... I've searched and searched but it seems nobody is discussing this anywhere. Does nobody use them or is it being kept quiet for a reason? They bypass an awful lot of DR that they shouldn't IMO, making them pretty powerful. I'm level 9 now and they kick butt on almost all mobs. All red damage on blackbones and earth ellies, just to name a couple of curiosities. Really??? How is that possible?

Unless I need to use stunning fist, I find myself using the Flame Blade alot more than handwraps. Perhaps that will change as I get higher level, we'll see.

Anyway, if someone out there has some insight, please PM me. I fully intend to keep using them, so far it seems like I'm getting better DPS from them than handwraps with my Wisdom being higher than my strength. I can't test on a dummy or in pvp because I can't summon them there, so I can't really prove it with numbers unless I locate a high HP baddy somewhere I can toy with.

[Purkilius]

Seeing some curious things with the Flame Blade... I've searched and searched but it seems nobody is discussing this anywhere. Does nobody use them or is it being kept quiet for a reason? They bypass an awful lot of DR that they shouldn't IMO, making them pretty powerful. I'm level 9 now and they kick butt on almost all mobs. All red damage on blackbones and earth ellies, just to name a couple of curiosities. Really??? How is that possible?

Unless I need to use stunning fist, I find myself using the Flame Blade alot more than handwraps. Perhaps that will change as I get higher level, we'll see.

Anyway, if someone out there has some insight, please PM me. I fully intend to keep using them, so far it seems like I'm getting better DPS from them than handwraps with my Wisdom being higher than my strength. I can't test on a dummy or in pvp because I can't summon them there, so I can't really prove it with numbers unless I locate a high HP baddy somewhere I can toy with.

Tested the Flameblades on a 4 druid/2 monk against +1 holy handwraps of bleeding and the handwraps were better by a large margin. I know the Flameblades get better over time and the past life blades might be at a higher level!

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

Tested the Flameblades on a 4 druid/2 monk against +1 holy handwraps of bleeding and the handwraps were better by a large margin. I know the Flameblades get better over time and the past life blades might be at a higher level!

I'm level 15 on the Monk life now and switched out of the Flame Blade at level 12. The wraps were decidedly better past level 10. I did find the Flame Blades useful/convenient in the earlier levels though, as I've stated.