A bone for the casuals ...

[dajg]

Some background first. I've played DDO for a couple of years. I have a TR1 wiz sitting at level 24 and a couple of alts mid levels. I play a few hours a week and I can afford to spend cash on the game should I want to. I am in a good but small guild and play European time so I PUG or solo exclusively. I am a little bored with the game.

I like PUGing, I like that this is a social game with some great people playing it and that I enjoy grouping with, however, given that I am usually on a time constraint it is not easy to find a group for a quest you want to do quickly. This is especially true at the higher heroic levels (16-20) when even an hour is not enough time to find a group and complete a dungeon during the hours I play. I do not think this sort of time constraint exists so much at lower levels so I would recommend this idea be aimed at levels 16-20.

I suggest a new type of adventure pack, the "come and go". It would have a setting e.g. forest or devils battleground or whatever and basically one path through that setting. You would have a large number of encounters in the pack and as you wander along the path you would randomly spawn one of these. Most would be beat up the monster type encounters, some would be protect the villagers, some would be puzzle based etc. With a small number of models you could easily make hundreds of encounters.

If you wanted to run a "come and go" adventure you would go to the quest giver and you would enter a queue. If a space was available in an existing group you get parachuted in, if not you enter a queue and wait until either a space is available or there a 4 or so people in the queue to form a new group.

Once in a group there a 2 statuses: green, when no encounter is going on and red, during an encounter. You can leave the group at any point when the status is green and each encounter is short so you can literally "come and go" as you please in this pack. Once you lose a player from your group a slot opens up for anyone in the queue. If two groups get too small and there is no one queueing the groups get merged (think tables in a poker tournament).

Now this would be pure PUGing and you would have no idea about the skill or ability of the people you are going to adventure with and you don't know what is coming next so XP/min would have to be pretty high and you would need to be pretty self sufficient to survive. I propose when a player leaves you get to rate them (thumbs up/down/neutral) and that over time determines their reputation. High rep players get put in groups with other high rep players and vice versa. If you get your rep above a certain level you can apply to become a "sensei" and you get dumped into the worst groups and teach them how to play in exchange for a massive boost to your XP (thinking +100%).

This whole situation would work best when there is a large pool of players obviously. I would also set up a forum for encounter suggestions from the players - it costs nothing and there will be some great ideas.

This would be great for the casuals who play on a tight time schedule and often have to leave quickly because a (usually family) situation arises. It would lets us dip in and out of the game easily and let us meet a large range of people to have fun with and after all we play this game to have fun not wait around for a group. Ever played rush poker? - straight into the action.

[Krelar]

What you described sounds essentially like doing the wilderness areas using a public group. Especially the newest areas where mobs/rares respawn randomly.

[dajg]

What you described sounds essentially like doing the wilderness areas using a public group. Especially the newest areas where mobs/rares respawn randomly.

Yes but the xp would be better. We NEED to encourage grouping and casual players if the game is to flourish.

[Zakharov]

I think the situation you're looking for (jumping in & out of something that you can do quickly) is pretty much what they intended challenges to be. If they expanded on those and upped the xp back to something decent that would be a good start.

We can always use more quests at the mid/upper mid lvls - new quest packs with large explorers etc.

Unfortunately lack of other players sounds like the main problem you're having.. even a pack like you describe would depend on those people playing as well. How many would buy this pack? If they are the same ones who you're having trouble getting together for a quest will this really be better? I'm not sure.

[Memnir]

The day they add any sort of official Rep system to the actual game is the same day I just walk away from it. Rep is already a horrid and useless system here on the forums, and one that contentious and prone to abuses. Adding it to the game itself would be far, far worse.


I'm not a huge fan of the idea in general, but then again I also hate the Challenges... so there is that.

[twigzz]

The day they add any sort of official Rep system to the actual game is the same day I just walk away from it. Rep is already a horrid and useless system here on the forums, and one that contentious and prone to abuses. Adding it to the game itself would be far, far worse.

+1. Totally agree.

Look at how much I added to Mem's rep! Mad greenis!

[Karavek]

Unfortunatly just the idea of rating another player alone is so bad it taints the rest of your idea.

Sadly the fact is Turbine just doesnt want to admit the entire core design of DDO and having to run entire and often lengthy instances to earn any notable XP. Why they are so afraid to do the reasonable thing and start giving XP per kill like every other MMO is still beyond me. Especially considering that higher dif mobs often prove dangerous to much higher lvl characters during favor farming of old content. Cant tell you how many times I have seen a high end barb get destroyed by a elite kobold shaman while trying to clear up some harbor content for favor. One hold person, a DA because of the fast pace, and a blind spell or the like( amazing how few carry blindness removal anymore) and down the mighty warrior goes.

The fact is though its pretty clear no one in the Dev team has any inkling of the art of DMing. Of the painstaking effort a good DM spends when designing even a minor encounter to take into account every possible trick a player character might bring to the scene.

For casual players about these days our only real option is to zerg like a hard core xp/minute pro just to get something done in our limited window, or grind challenges. While I like challenges, the fact they are the only content Ive been able to use for the last year to get any meaningful xp earned during my short windows has really started to take its toll on my enjoying the game. Having to run a thousand time is moneys rather then a few dozen FR quests not because I dont want to, but because I cant be certain of time when I play and dont want to risk having to waste time invested in content.

In most other MMO kill xp tends to out pace quest completion xp, this is a good thing as then even if you had to leave before the mission is over, its not a big deal.

Honestly its just all problematic when it comes to xp and earning it here. Some lvls go fast, some mind numbingly slow. Other MMO have the sense to have ways to lvl up fast so those who want to be they newbs or vets dont have to ever feel like they are stuck in a sandtrap of lvling.

I dont even enjoy playing an MMO until a character feels complete, yet here they cant even finish the over all lvl range and figure out a way to let old high lvls join and work with new low lvls. Exemp and sidekick systems are innovations in MMO older then DDO and its pathetic DDO all these years later still doesnt recognize the need to make partying across all the lvl ranges a viable option.

[Zakharov]

Unfortunatly just the idea of rating another player alone is so bad it taints the rest of your idea.

Sadly the fact is Turbine just doesnt want to admit the entire core design of DDO and having to run entire and often lengthy instances to earn any notable XP. Why they are so afraid to do the reasonable thing and start giving XP per kill like every other MMO is still beyond me. Especially considering that higher dif mobs often prove dangerous to much higher lvl characters during favor farming of old content. Cant tell you how many times I have seen a high end barb get destroyed by a elite kobold shaman while trying to clear up some harbor content for favor. One hold person, a DA because of the fast pace, and a blind spell or the like( amazing how few carry blindness removal anymore) and down the mighty warrior goes.

The fact is though its pretty clear no one in the Dev team has any inkling of the art of DMing. Of the painstaking effort a good DM spends when designing even a minor encounter to take into account every possible trick a player character might bring to the scene.

For casual players about these days our only real option is to zerg like a hard core xp/minute pro just to get something done in our limited window, or grind challenges. While I like challenges, the fact they are the only content Ive been able to use for the last year to get any meaningful xp earned during my short windows has really started to take its toll on my enjoying the game. Having to run a thousand time is moneys rather then a few dozen FR quests not because I dont want to, but because I cant be certain of time when I play and dont want to risk having to waste time invested in content.

In most other MMO kill xp tends to out pace quest completion xp, this is a good thing as then even if you had to leave before the mission is over, its not a big deal.

Honestly its just all problematic when it comes to xp and earning it here. Some lvls go fast, some mind numbingly slow. Other MMO have the sense to have ways to lvl up fast so those who want to be they newbs or vets dont have to ever feel like they are stuck in a sandtrap of lvling.

I dont even enjoy playing an MMO until a character feels complete, yet here they cant even finish the over all lvl range and figure out a way to let old high lvls join and work with new low lvls. Exemp and sidekick systems are innovations in MMO older then DDO and its pathetic DDO all these years later still doesnt recognize the need to make partying across all the lvl ranges a viable option.

I disagree with everything other than your first line (rating people is no good).

The way quest xp is structured is one of the nice things about this game that sets it apart, I hate grinding kills for xp in those other mmo's. If anything I wish there were more quests that had less killing of mobs & more storyline/puzzles/exploration etc.

Lack of interesting encounters is a problem but I think that's more of a time/effort/engine issue. Better AI would help but I've never seen a dev say that's likely to happen.

The time constraint thing is a common complaint but I still don't get it.. even with just an hour you can complete most quests in the game without a problem, particularly the new fr ones. If you have kids or need to go afk frequently you can still solo the quests and go afk at a moments notice.

Please don't let this game ever become anything like other mmo's.. I don't want to play them, that's why I'm here.

[smkalinowski]

I suggest a new type of adventure pack, the "come and go".

Great, now I'm gonna have Karma Chameleon stuck in my head for the rest of the day.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Great, now I'm gonna have Karma Chameleon stuck in my head for the rest of the day.

I had a character once whose name was "Kamakamakama Kama Kama Khameleon"

(guess what weapons he used. )

[Krelar]

I had a character once whose name was "Kamakamakama Kama Kama Khameleon"

(guess what weapons he used. )

Handwraps?

[Charononus]

Yes to more quests, no to everything else. Motu was a huge casual expansion as is.

[Miow]

Yes to more quests, no to everything else. Motu was a huge casual expansion as is.

Yes this is how i feeeel too. Let us hug each other in this sweet sweet moment.

:P

[Qhualor]

Yes to more quests, no to everything else. Motu was a huge casual expansion as is.

Ha! Thats the first ive heard MOTU described as casual and sadly have to agree.

[Ungood]

Ummm ok.

Lets say, I look at this.

Kinda cool idea.

You have what amounts to an Endless "Ring of Fire"/"Fight to the Finish" type of Challenge, but with endless "waves", and players earn exp after each "wave" is done, and anyone can come in or leave between "waves".

I would wager broken into 8 categories. 1 - 4, 5 - 7, 8 - 10, 11 - 13, 14 - 16, 17 - 19, 20 - 22, 23 - 25. So that everyone was pretty close in level and thus max EXP and skill for all involved. This would need hard lockout, so the levels were fixed (Not what happened to Mabar)

This would be pretty much any solo builds dream type of deal.

A couple of points.

There should be no party size minimum, so if one person joins then they just start, no need to wait for others. IE: if you are on an off time and your are alone , you can play alone, or if you are the 7th person to join in, you simply start your own instance.

Grading System. Not a good idea. While fun in concept, I don't see it doing any good, and only people who know each other would be prone to give a pos anyway, and neg anyone that even remotely disagreed with them.

I think a better system would be for Group to be able to enter of their own accord and stay that way, as opposed to risk breaking up upon arrival (like they could in Mabar)

Death should kick a player from the Challenge. Perhaps give 40 seconds for a party member to raise them, otherwise they are kicked from the Challenge with no exp.

All in all, it could be a fun "Something to do to pass time when you are not sure what to do next" because lets be real, objectiveless slaughter is just fun sometimes.

[ThreeEyedBob]

I would love to see a "Random Dungeon Delve" where you can generate a challenge style dungeon with several levels (1-5 for example) with a boss and difficulty increase for every level until a final big boss at the bottom. Typical oldschool hack and slash adventure with a random chest here and there.

Preferably where you can choose how many levels the dungeon has initialy so if you are time constrained you can pick just a 1 level dungeon.

[Uska]

Maybe for casuals you could add a xp bonus the first character on the account they played after being gone for a bit the longer they were gone they larger the bonus to a max of +25% the reason I say only the first character they played is other wise it would maybe start to be abused.

[DrakHar]

Some background first. I've played DDO for a couple of years. I have a TR1 wiz sitting at level 24 and a couple of alts mid levels. I play a few hours a week and I can afford to spend cash on the game should I want to. I am in a good but small guild and play European time so I PUG or solo exclusively. I am a little bored with the game.

I like PUGing, I like that this is a social game with some great people playing it and that I enjoy grouping with, however, given that I am usually on a time constraint it is not easy to find a group for a quest you want to do quickly. This is especially true at the higher heroic levels (16-20) when even an hour is not enough time to find a group and complete a dungeon during the hours I play. I do not think this sort of time constraint exists so much at lower levels so I would recommend this idea be aimed at levels 16-20.

I suggest a new type of adventure pack, the "come and go". It would have a setting e.g. forest or devils battleground or whatever and basically one path through that setting. You would have a large number of encounters in the pack and as you wander along the path you would randomly spawn one of these. Most would be beat up the monster type encounters, some would be protect the villagers, some would be puzzle based etc. With a small number of models you could easily make hundreds of encounters.

If you wanted to run a "come and go" adventure you would go to the quest giver and you would enter a queue. If a space was available in an existing group you get parachuted in, if not you enter a queue and wait until either a space is available or there a 4 or so people in the queue to form a new group.

Once in a group there a 2 statuses: green, when no encounter is going on and red, during an encounter. You can leave the group at any point when the status is green and each encounter is short so you can literally "come and go" as you please in this pack. Once you lose a player from your group a slot opens up for anyone in the queue. If two groups get too small and there is no one queueing the groups get merged (think tables in a poker tournament).

Now this would be pure PUGing and you would have no idea about the skill or ability of the people you are going to adventure with and you don't know what is coming next so XP/min would have to be pretty high and you would need to be pretty self sufficient to survive. I propose when a player leaves you get to rate them (thumbs up/down/neutral) and that over time determines their reputation. High rep players get put in groups with other high rep players and vice versa. If you get your rep above a certain level you can apply to become a "sensei" and you get dumped into the worst groups and teach them how to play in exchange for a massive boost to your XP (thinking +100%).

This whole situation would work best when there is a large pool of players obviously. I would also set up a forum for encounter suggestions from the players - it costs nothing and there will be some great ideas.

This would be great for the casuals who play on a tight time schedule and often have to leave quickly because a (usually family) situation arises. It would lets us dip in and out of the game easily and let us meet a large range of people to have fun with and after all we play this game to have fun not wait around for a group. Ever played rush poker? - straight into the action.

I didn't like this idea. Then I saw the rating system. Now I hate this idea.

Encourage grouping? There was a family death of a guildy - I lost ALL of my levelling partners for my TR because they were related. So I've pugged my way to 17. Pure pug. No guildies. Even my private channels came up dry. It isn't hard to pug.

Public instances are always bugged and don't work right, I wouldn't trust these ones to either. If you don't know what I mean, if you go public and set a level range, it doesn't use the level range you set. Public and elite streaking? Well, that's funny, 3/4 of the way through the quest it lets in a person who breaks the streak.

[Silverleafeon]

the day they add any sort of official rep system to the actual game is the same day i just walk away from it..

+1

i think the situation you're looking for (jumping in & out of something that you can do quickly) is pretty much what they intended challenges to be. If they expanded on those and upped the xp back to something decent that would be a good start.

We can always use more quests at the mid/upper mid lvls - new quest packs with large explorers etc..

+1

what you described sounds essentially like doing the wilderness areas using a public group. Especially the newest areas where mobs/rares respawn randomly.

+1

[LordMond63]

I do get, and share, the OP's frustration.

One of the things I liked about EQ (and DDO's Turbine stablemate LotRO) is that you did not have to group in order to make appreciable levelling progress. Sure, grouping was faster, but there was an acceptable alternative if time was short or some other circumstance prevented you from grouping.

Turbine has decided that DDO is going to be almost exclusively instanced, rather than persistent. The only real exceptions I can think of are Mabar and Crystal Cove. The only alternative to soloing quests or doing wilderness areas are the Challenges. I've done a bare handful of them and, frankly, I didn't enjoy them....but, setting aside my personal opinion on them, they are designed to be quick (15 minutes or so?) so they fit almost any timeframe you have.

I would not be a fan of any in-game karma system, however, as you're likely to be punished for any number of insufficient reasons and thus your rating would suffer unwarrantedly. We see people getting negative rep here on the Forums for no reason other than daring to disagree with someone. Why should we expect any better behavior in-game?