best past lives for a bard?

[Bolo_Grubb]

If i only wanted to TR twice to get the 36 point build, but wanted final life to be bard, what past lives should I shoot for?

[kaleid0star]

If you want a caster bard = wizard, fvs
If you want a melee bard = barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin

[AzB]

If i only wanted to TR twice to get the 36 point build, but wanted final life to be bard, what past lives should I shoot for?

Depends on what kind of bard. Wiz for +2 spell pen and +2 to wand DCs. This is very nice for a caster, as spell pen is an issue with charms on drow. The increased wand DCs is pretty handy too, as you should have pretty high UMD and this helps wand usage, whether healing, offensive, or utility. Favored Soul gives +1 Spell Pen and 20 extra spell points. Sorc also adds 20 extra sp, and gives +1 to Evocation spell DCs. The only Evo spells bard uses are the sonic blast, shout line of spells.

For a melee bard, barb has a nice synergy. 10 extra hp for the passive feat, 20 more and a mini rage with the active. You could theoretically replace toughness with the barb purchased pl feat and get the mini rage as a bonus.

Arti gives you +1 UMD and +1 to int based skills. The UMD part is nice for a bard that does a lot with UMD.

Pally gives a nice heal boost, but really need at least two levels to be a dramatic improvement.

Monk is +1 damage... nice, but again, unless you go with all three lives, +1 really isn't a big bonus for the grind.

Most of the rest of the passive feats are not that great for a bard, and even if they have some benefit it's pretty limited.

I'd say 2 wiz lives for a caster; 1 wiz, 1 barb for a hybrid, and 1 barb and 1 other for a melee. I tried the wiz active past life and it was awesome to have a bard casting magic missles at lower levels. I traded the feat out at higher levels though as it was not quite as impressive and there were other feats that were better. The barb active feat is kinda cool with a warchanter. The WC pre adds a rage ability if you have one, so the one mini rage becomes two. Not earth shattering, but fun to play with on a melee bard. The bard purchased past life could be helpful for specific builds, but I don't think it's worth it for most. If you find yourself always running out of songs (I never do) or needing just one more DC or skill point on CHA based skills, it could be great. But these are things that typically aren't an issue. I either have it covered, or I need a lot more than +1.

So I think it comes down to bard type and playstyle. I would shoot for a couple more past lives... at least 2 wiz and a barb or two. Every casting toon can use more spell pen and hp. Beyond that, go with what matches your priorities and bolsters your weaknesses... or your playstyle or flavor. And let's face it, most bards are all about flavor.

[Aashrym]

If you are stopping at 2 past lives 1 wizard and 1 bard for an enchanter/caster style bard or 2 paladin for a melee style bard would be good choices.

The bard past life does do a fair bit for a caster bard with extra songs, extra CHA skills like UMD, and a bonus to the DC of their main line of spells. The wizard is standard for any caster with +1 DC to all schools and +2 spell penetration; the bonus to wand DC's is useful for web and PK wands at lower levels with the UMD.

2 Paladin is for the healing amp and the divine favor spell granted but barbarian is also a choice.

[Jaid314]

there is some room for sorcerer past lives as well on a caster bard... i'd definitely start off with a wizard past life (it's just too good to pass up!), but adding in a sorcerer past life can boost your sonic blast, soundburst, and greater shout spells... that may not sound like much, but remember:

1) they aren't enchantment... and therefore work on mindless living enemies such as spiders. there are other non-enchantment offensive CC spells in the bard list, but there are reasons nobody uses them ever.
2) sonic blast and greater shout bypass SR completely.
3) soundburst and greater shout are fortitude saves, not will saves, unlike just about everything else in your repertoire. good luck landing any sort of dance spell on a drow cleric (or even a drow wizard or sorcerer)... you've got a much better chance with greater shout, though

[jellyfish21]

Jaid makes sense. Enchantments are better left for the archmage. Greater Shout is a very powerful spell againt monsters with a lower fortitude save, such as mages.

You should take into account your healing ability. Extra spell points really help this out. So, sorcerer past life is the way to go, IMO.

The uniqueness of a bard is their songs. It is a shame that a past life of a bard doesn't improve this: it seems stupid to ignore this aspect of a bard past life.

[bartosy]

for a spellsinger wizard and bard for +2 enchantment dc +2 spell pen and +4 songs 1 from pl and 3 from apl

for a warchanter probably barbarian or paladin divine favor clicky is really nice imo escpailly if you manage to extend it

for a virt i would say barb for hp and have red hair genes and be able to sing tomorrow really good so you get adopted by a rich sugar daddy.

[Chette]

Decide on your build first because bards come in all different flavours.

One of the great things about having two extra epic feats, new gear choices, and new enhancements is that stunning is no longer the exclusive tactic of fighters and monks. A melee bard can get a decent stun DC now, one that will work on casters in epic elites and on pretty much anything in epic hard. Two extra DCs from fighter past life can be huge for a bard that plans to take stunning blow.

If you're a melee bard not planning to stun, then I'd do either Barb or Paladin for HP or healing amp.

If you're a CC bard I'd do either 2 wizard or 1 wizard 1 bard.

[MartinusWyllt]

...
The uniqueness of a bard is their songs. It is a shame that a past life of a bard doesn't improve this: it seems stupid to ignore this aspect of a bard past life.

Is the passive +1 song usage/life not particularly useful?

[Bolo_Grubb]

This would be for a melee focused Virtuoso THF build that can buff chests and CC with songs.

[karl_k0ch]

This would be for a melee focused Virtuoso THF build that can buff chests and CC with songs.

Pure? How much room is for the active Paladin Past life?

How much are you planning to toy around with charmed mobs?

For passive bonuses, I think that Paladin, Monk, Rogue, Barbarian and maybe Druid are interesting (in that order.)
For active bonuses, I think that Paladin and Rogue are interesting.

[Bolo_Grubb]

Pure? How much room is for the active Paladin Past life?

How much are you planning to toy around with charmed mobs?

For passive bonuses, I think that Paladin, Monk, Rogue, Barbarian and maybe Druid are interesting (in that order.)
For active bonuses, I think that Paladin and Rogue are interesting.

ah should have stated that this is an 18/2 bard/rogue build.

[Uhtred_Stark]

For a melee bard your best bet is monk, paladin, bard. Here is why, the barbarian PL feat is actually worse than regular toughness now by quite a bit. It's only nice for getting the big rush of HPs at the start of your life. You will never notice the passive 10 hps you get. Monk will give you +1 dmg to every hit for the rest of your life. Thats a ton of extra damage over the course of your characters life. Likewise, the paladin life will give 5% more healing amp for every healing effect you take for the rest of your characters life. Adding another 5% from a source you can only get from TRing is a significant effect. You also have good synergy for TRing. A monk is the easiest melee class to level up so you can start there and get your wraps and gear. For your 2nd life you can choose a paladin/monk build (i would suggest 10 paladin/9 monk/1 rogue). Here you can collect your rogue gear for you final life too. You will use all the same wraps and gear you had in your first life here since you're basically a really really hard to kill monk with trapping skills. Then you can go bard.

[darkovac]

I play bard atm (28pt dwarf melee, first life, poor Enchant and even poorer Evocation DC). Spells I use the most are Otto's Irresistible Dance and Greater Shout.

Greater Shout has nice dmg and if daze lands it is great, but I find Otto's Irresistible Dance to be better and more reliable and when I play with CC casters and their Disco Ball doesn't land on some mobs I land Otto's Irresistible Dance on them to patch the holes.

Thing I'm missing the most is Spell Penetration and if I were to choose 2 PL right now both would be Wizard.

That's just my experience with melee bard. There is some optimal build probably and would be the best if you make 2 full builds with different combinations of PL and check the numbers. If you want to play EE MotU Spell Penetration sweet spot is around 55.

Good luck with your build.

[RoelHeeswijk]

for your regular 16/2/2 bard/fighter/rogue, i'd say:

2 past lifes as paladin for 10% amp.

paladin>monk>barbarian>rogue>artificer>fighter>ran ger>favored soul>sorc>bard>wizard. cleric and druid don't do anything for you.
Even though +1 attack doesn't do that much in the current game, it's still kinda nice to have.
IMO, spell pen is not going to be high enough no matter what, if they have SR they save. So don't bother. (Well unless you go all-in on them, with 3 wiz and 3 fvs they would start having some value... but i'd still much rather have 15% amp and +3 dmg or something).

I guess this is mostly the order that goes for any dps, with a few exceptions:
-Artificer with it's combined UMD and trap skills actually helps you out nicely, although I'd say not as much as 1 sneak damage, and certainly not as good as raw power like amp, damage or hp.

-Healing amp is always very good, but especially nice on a bard (more so than on a healer or pure dps). You need every little bit of amp to be able to be a selfhealing dps, so I put it even over +1 dmg which I normally wouldn't.

-20 SP is just so little that even on a low SP bard it's not as good as 2 stacking elemental resist. (If there was a +2 elemental resist spell costing 20sp, i'd cast it). But hey, it's something, so i still put it over +2 versus enchant/illusions, with fom there's just so little of those that matter.

Of course I wouldn't give up a feat to take any of the purchasable past lives. If you have a build that somehow has extend anyway and ALSO has another feat slot that you really don't need, the paladin one is the only one I'd ever take.

-- edit: In hindsight... no matter how much i like healing amp in general, and on a bard in specific.... +1 dmg is just so sick. If you plan to go TWF, it's probably better to go 2 lives of monk after all.

[Enoach]

The majority of a Bards spells lie in Conjuration, Enchantment and Transmutation.

Of the Conjuration spells the majority are Cure Spells or Summon Spells, neither of which need high DCs to cast these for their primary use.

So if the focus is good CC capabilities than a Wizard Life brings the most bang for the buck - If also able to use the PL Active Feat it would be better than any single school focus feat.

I would recommend 2 of the following 4:
Wizard <- Especially if your able to take the Active Feat
Barbarian <- Extra HP and access to a near equivalent Toughness Feat. While the Extra 30 second rage is not impressive it can serve as a way to boost your strength for a small period of time for levers or combat.
Artificer <- UMD bonus
Druid <- Bonus to charmed mobs similar to having the Augment Summoning

Paladin is also nice, but a 5% healing Amp bonus in my opinion is not as big a boost as the 4 above.

[Jaid314]

don't forget the bard's evocation spells. sound blast (a nice spell), sound burst (would be better if it didn't have to breech SR), shout (which you shouldn't take) and greater shout (which you should).

one thing, though... i don't see anyone you would think SR is impossible to deal with on a bard. hard to fit in to a melee build, sure, but... if you go the full 20 from caster levels, a spellsinger will have +1 from song, +2 from the capstone, up to +4 from non-epic feats, another +4 from epic spell pen, up to +3 from other enhancements, a +3 item (very easy to get for level 6 spells)... frankly, the only thing that beats a bard for being able to get through SR is an elven wizard (well, that and an earth savant using flesh to stone). anything else, pound for pound, the bard will win. on a first life, a bard can bring to bear +37 to beat SR before destiny. fatesinger adds +2 for enchantment spells, echoes of the arcane:magister offers +2 to all, so that's +46 enchantment/+44 other spells right there. on a *first life* bard. with no twists (which can add up to +6 if you really want), and without a +caster level item.

the real problems with spellcasting bards are:

1) not much variety in spells. the vast majority of offensive spells are enchantment, with only a few elsewhere, and for the most part not enough reason to invest in those other areas for such a small benefit (evocation could be worth it, but necromancy, conjuration, and illusion are not even close).
2) a focus on only one kind of spell. enchantment spells are good, but why couldn't the capstone make bards equal in DC to a sorcerer (not even a wizard) in every school, rather than only enchantment?
3) feat-starved like crazy. getting a whole bunch of past lives can help, but just to be moderately effective you've got to be really careful picking your feats as a bard...