Warforged Glancing Blow Undead Hunter

[Uproar]

So... will the extra cleric level be helpful to get this character turning faster? I plan to TR once I hit max, but want to turn (a lot) before I get there ... I expect. Only way I could think to get 2x improved turning feats (with toughness and 2hd thrown in too) when I wanted them -- to make good use of them in Deleras and Desert later.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
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Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(2 Fighter \ 17 Paladin \ 1 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 360
Spell Points: 345 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 31
Reflex: 17
Will: 19

                  Starting            Ending          
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats        
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
Strength             14                 18            
Dexterity             8                 10            
Constitution         14                 18            
Intelligence         12                 14            
Wisdom                8                 10            
Charisma             16                 26            

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting            Ending          
                 Base Skills        Base Skills       
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
Balance               1                 10            
Concentration         2                 10            
Diplomacy             3                 14            
Intimidate            3                 30            
Jump                  3                  6            
Use Magic Device      5                 19            

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Bane
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cause Fear
Spell (1): Command
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Doom
Spell (1): Inflict Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Nimbus of Light
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (1): Shield of Faith
Spell (1): Summon Monster I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Turning


Level 4 (Paladin)
Level 5 (Paladin)
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Lionheart
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (1): Virtue


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Turning


Level 7 (Paladin)
Level 8 (Paladin)
Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 10 (Paladin)
Level 11 (Paladin)
Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse


Level 13 (Paladin)
Level 14 (Paladin)
Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Spell (4): Break Enchantment
Spell (4): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (4): Death Ward
Spell (4): Holy Sword
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (4): Restoration
Spell (4): Stalwart Pact
Spell (4): Zeal

Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave

Level 18 (Paladin)
Level 19 (Paladin)
Level 20 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III

Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III

Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II

Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II

Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I

Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude III

[Uproar]

Basically looking for feedback on whether to:
(1) Give it a go
or (2) No way not a chance.

[shadereaper33]

Honestly, designing an entire build around a lackluster ability isn't something I would recommend. I have never seen turn undead used effectively for actually turning undead. I would say that it is far more common, and effective, to use the abilities that function off of turn undead charges rather than the using the feat itself.

[Brennie]

If the purpose of this build is to 1) be warforged, 2) be (mostly) paladin, and 3) use your turn undeads to actually turn undead, rather than to power your paladin abilities (divine might mostly), then... no, i wouldn't do this.

A pure cleric with no charisma deficiency will have problems turning undead in any content that is remotely challenging or worth running, from about the mid levels onward. Paladins doubly so. Infact, in the end, after all that effort you end up turning undead at approximately the same level as a level 17 cleric (though I'm not sure how destinies affect your class level for turning abilities, but you could potentially get up to level 22 cleric with a tier 5 divine destiny maybe?). I'm just frankly not sure that's worth it.

You then encounter other setbacks, such as a limited pool for your Divine Might ability (If you're tossing out turns to kill undead, you have less to fuel your Divine Might), general downsides of a Warforged (lower charisma, lower wisdom, horrid ability to self-heal outside of lay hands, redundancy in some immunities) and the fact that most paladin abilities favor TWF more than THF, with Zeal being the only exception... It just seems like every element of this idea jarrs horribly with every other element.

That said, do what makes you happy. To keep the theme, but optimize slightly better, perhaps consider a turn-based battle cleric, who could then get a lot more undead-killing power from their turns. Or consider a more melee-centric Hunter of the Dead who uses turns to power Divine Might or even Divine Light, which uses turn undead to do light damage to nearby undead.

[Mastikator]

Honestly, designing an entire build around a lackluster ability isn't something I would recommend. I have never seen turn undead used effectively for actually turning undead. I would say that it is far more common, and effective, to use the abilities that function off of turn undead charges rather than the using the feat itself.

I have seen clerics that can destroy groups of undead with a single turn.
But honestly, even then it's lackluster, most undead that you have to worry about are immune to Turn Undead anyway, a regular disruption weapon and cleave will do just fine for a paladin.

A thing of note, I'm almost certain that the Turn Undead from cleric and Turn Undead from paladin won't stack and divine vitality will only apply to the cleric turns. If you have Veteran II you can try it out just to find out if it even works, if it does and you can use your Paladin Turns to give others SP then it's worth not getting HotD III (given that you'll end up with some 15+ turns, which translates into up to 195-330 SP)

[Uproar]

Some excellent feedback -- thanks. I am also not certain about the cleric - paladin stacking. Haven't been able to find an answer to that.

I'd kind of like to make a battle / undead turning cleric, but never been successful (or stubborn enough I suppose) to find groups willing to take such a cleric. All you get is people angry at you and wanting heals 100% of the time.

[unbongwah]

I have never seen turn undead used effectively for actually turning undead.

I have, but it's generally been on pure clerics (not pallies) who clearly put a lot of effort into boosting their TUs and who most likely gimped their other offensive options in the process (i.e., CHA-based instead of WIS-based, invested in Turning feats & enhs instead of DPS-boosting metas, etc.).

I'd kind of like to make a battle / undead turning cleric, but never been successful (or stubborn enough I suppose) to find groups willing to take such a cleric.

A good WIS-based cleric already has plenty of undead-bustin' power without pigeon-holing itself into using TU which has always been underwhelming. As Mastikator indicates, TU is only good against trash mobs of undead; for tougher undead, you'll be using your light / good spells (Searing Light, Deific Vengeance, etc.), radiant bursts, and/or Undead Bane/Disruption weapons to take them down, rendering all that TU power moot.

[DevHead]

I've got a TR with 2 cleric past lives, the best turning gear I could make/find, and it started getting pointless to try turning on Elite around level 13. And that was on a cleric life. It's useful up to 10-12, but beyond that...my bursts were more effective.