S+B but not Intimitank?

[arminius]

I have a S+B paladin who has decent AC, decent PRR, high exceptional fort, high healing amp, some dodge, blurry, ghostly, displacement clickies, etc. The standard layout to avoid damage and survive to the best of my ability in situations where without it one would wither away in a few blows. On top of that, there's Overwhelming Crit and Sense Weakness and Momentum Swing and bastard sword and maximizing doublestrike and all that stuff one does to try to still contribute offensively as well as one can.

However, I also only have a standing intimidate of 65, 69 with greater heroism. While this seems to do the trick pulling in trash on epic hard (we'll see about epic elite trash, haven't tried it yet), it ain't nowhere near what is needed to really be a main tank on an end game epic elite raid boss (100+). When I look at all the feats and gear and extraordinary effort necessary to get to that point, I am massively turned off and don't want any part of it. I especially don't want it because it would involve gimping all the things I love about the character to begin with, which is defensive survivability with as little sacrifice of DPS as possible.

So my question is, does this type of build have a purpose to exist? Will I just go into epic raids and just get laughed at and booted, since it can't do what they consider "a tank role"? Is pulling epic elite trash and otherwise just being an overall survivable character a good-enough goal, or is it just pointless if you don't max intimidate and pull everyone, especially EE bosses, to you at all times?

I just remember in the olden days when people would max AC and it would be purposeless if they did not also max intimidate since they never did enough DPS to pull aggro away from anyone, therefore no one ever swung at them and their high AC was never an asset. But it seems the rules have changed with the new defensive layout of the game. Advice? Thanks.

[Inouk]

I have a S+B paladin who has decent AC, decent PRR, high exceptional fort, high healing amp, some dodge, blurry, ghostly, displacement clickies, etc. The standard layout to avoid damage and survive to the best of my ability in situations where without it one would wither away in a few blows. On top of that, there's Overwhelming Crit and Sense Weakness and Momentum Swing and bastard sword and maximizing doublestrike and all that stuff one does to try to still contribute offensively as well as one can.

However, I also only have a standing intimidate of 65, 69 with greater heroism. While this seems to do the trick pulling in trash on epic hard (we'll see about epic elite trash, haven't tried it yet), it ain't nowhere near what is needed to really be a main tank on an end game epic elite raid boss (100+). When I look at all the feats and gear and extraordinary effort necessary to get to that point, I am massively turned off and don't want any part of it. I especially don't want it because it would involve gimping all the things I love about the character to begin with, which is defensive survivability with as little sacrifice of DPS as possible.

So my question is, does this type of build have a purpose to exist? Will I just go into epic raids and just get laughed at and booted, since it can't do what they consider "a tank role"? Is pulling epic elite trash and otherwise just being an overall survivable character a good-enough goal, or is it just pointless if you don't max intimidate and pull everyone, especially EE bosses, to you at all times?

I just remember in the olden days when people would max AC and it would be purposeless if they did not also max intimidate since they never did enough DPS to pull aggro away from anyone, therefore no one ever swung at them and their high AC was never an asset. But it seems the rules have changed with the new defensive layout of the game. Advice? Thanks.

Are you a DoS? Or to put it another way, do you have the extra threat generation that you find you can reliable hold agro without intimidating?

[cdr]

The DDD is one of the better fighter builds around right now. I just got mine to 20 and am soloing EHs easily, working on gear to try EEs. It's the direction S&Bs should be going in for the current game, unless you're building a super narrow tanking-only build (not a fan).

[arminius]

Are you a DoS? Or to put it another way, do you have the extra threat generation that you find you can reliable hold agro without intimidating?

Yes, am a DoS. So, yes have other sources of aggro management. Just know that when it comes down to it for epic elite bosses it is massive intimidate that holds the day and not hate tanking. Would still be concerned that even with the additional hate the stance, etc, confers, and even with all the doublestrike, etc, would not be doing enough DPS with a S+B to hold hate. Maybe that concern is unfounded, I guess we'll see.

[elraido]

Yes, am a DoS. So, yes have other sources of aggro management. Just know that when it comes down to it for epic elite bosses it is massive intimidate that holds the day and not hate tanking. Would still be concerned that even with the additional hate the stance, etc, confers, and even with all the doublestrike, etc, would not be doing enough DPS with a S+B to hold hate. Maybe that concern is unfounded, I guess we'll see.

You are fine. Try and get a few more things to help with your intim. Coin Lords Finishing School for two more. Intim 15 item if you don't have one. Increase your Charisma some more (Tomes, +8 Item, +2 exceptional Item, Yugo Pots) Those right there could potentially increase your score by up to 5 points. My main tank, his intim is around a 75 self buffed. He doesn't have any huge issues holding aggro, especially when you combine that with the hate he generates. Aggro management shouldn't be based only on your intim score or your hate gen. It is a combination of both and knowing when to use them. Remember, when you intim, you also get a bonus to your hate. So, if you fail the intim, you are still adding to your total hate at least.

[arminius]

Thanks for the encouragement. I will look into what I can boost, I can do a boost of 5 to 10 points but I was thinking I was looking at 30+ points and despairing. I didn't even know there was a 400 point Coin Lord favor turn in reward.

[Wipey]

So, if you fail the intim, you are still adding to your total hate at least.

I don't think this is true ;-)

For the OP, I can't imagine double boosted shield wielding pally with div righteousness, intolerant blows and the right weapon ever losing aggro even on failed intim.

Hey, but my experience is just twfing stalwart in dread with intolerant blows holding aggro without intimidating against fury monkeys in few ToDs so might be wrong.

[elraido]

I don't think this is true ;-)

My bad. You are right. If you fail you don't get it...but I almost never see that happening.

Additionally, you gain a +50% threat multiplier to all attacks (melee, ranged, and spells) for 6 seconds after successful intimidation. If you have a shield equipped, you will instead gain a +100% threat multiplier for 12 seconds

[Inouk]

I haven't played a true tank yet (though I have one planned), but my understanding is you only need the 100+ intim on EE LoB and EE ADQ. And even then you only need it if you lose agro, which is unlikely.

[Enoach]

I haven't played a true tank yet (though I have one planned), but my understanding is you only need the 100+ intim on EE LoB and EE ADQ. And even then you only need it if you lose agro, which is unlikely.

And keep in mind those are the "No Fail" numbers for 2 Bosses. Others have pointed out some good examples to help boost the Intimidate