Someone rate this Drow Mechanic build?

[Foxhound3857]

I have yet to buy any tomes for this character. I want to make sure my build is solid before I commit any money to it.

Drow Mechanic, pure Rogue.

Lv1 (Lv20)

Str: 8 (10)
Dex: 16 (23)
Con: 12 (14)
Int: 20 (22)
Wis: 8 (10)
Cha: 10 (12)

Skills:

UMD
Haggle
Bluff
Diplomacy
Search
Spot
Disable
Lockpick
Jump
Tumble (1 point)
Hide
Move Silently
Listen

Feats:

Lv1: Toughness
Lv3: Rapid Shot
Lv6: Point Blank Shot
Lv9: Rapid Reload
Lv12: Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Lv15: Precise Shot
Lv18: Improved Precise Shot

Leaving Str at 8 because with equipment and a tome it should be easy to avoid becoming burdened, even with ray of enfeeblement, so I can max out my starting Int for maximum skills/bonuses and Int damage to my repeater, while still having good Dex and enough Con for Toughness. I'm also taking Precise Shot feats way later because I intend to use a weapon that grants the feat until then. Probably Acid Burst or Seeker.

Thoughts?

[tekkentroop]

2 more dex and 2 less int would net you 2 build points. Drop listen.

[Deathdefy]

Rapid Shot doesn't do much for a x-bow - I'd definitely take Precision instead. I'd then take Improved Sneak Attack at 21, and maybe Rapid Shot at 24 if nothing else takes your fancy by then.

Improved Precise Shot makes a huge difference, and I'd get it ASAP (at 15 for a pure rogue).

You can only be granted "Precise Shot" by weapons (not "Improved Precise Shot"). And even then it's at the expense of a better mod (like damage!).

Rapid Reload makes an amazing difference to your play, as does Point Blank Shot.

I'd re-organize feats to be:
1) Rapid Reload
3) Point Blank Shot
6) Toughness
9) Precise Shot
12) IC: Ranged
15) Improved Precise Shot
18) Precision
21) Improved Sneak Attack
24) Rapid Shot

Str 8 is fine. The level 4 quest Irestone Inlet will require you to be careful, but that's about the extent of the danger (apart from Symbol of Weakness, which is almost exclusively found in the end boss of ETK and the Rushmoor's Mansion challenges). Do get a tome and str item though, and carry lesser restoration potions as soon as you can afford a few (like 30 not the full 100 for a while since you won't have the carrying capacity).

Also make sure you have Dex 19 (just from initial allocation + tomes + level-ups) by level 15 for Improved Precise Shot. The rest go into int. I actually like your initial stat allocation for the reasons you outline, and wouldn't change it.

Obviously take and leave what advice you please, but my experience is that IPS, Rapid Reload and PBS rock, but Rapid Shot is trashy.

EDIT: True story re: the below posters and 21 dex being necessary for Improved Sneak Attack (and Combat Archery if it's fixed!) Definitely consider changing your initial stat distribution!

[karl_k0ch]

Also make sure you have Dex 19 (just from initial allocation + tomes + level-ups) by level 15 for Improved Precise Shot. The rest go into int. I actually like your initial stat allocation for the reasons you outline, and wouldn't change it.

Starting with 16 Dex and 20 Int costs 22 build points and ends up at 23/22 if a +2 tome for both stats is used and all level-ups go into dex.
Starting with 18 Dex and 18 Int costs 20 build points and ends up at 23/22 if a +2 tome for both stats is used and 3 level-up go into dex, and 2 level-ups go into int.

If you are aiming for 19 Dex and rest int, you can go with 17 Dex and 19 Int, all level ups in int, which will cost you 21 build points, as opposed to 16 Dex, 20 Int, 1 level up in dex, 4 in int.

What about qualifying for Combat Archery?

[voodoogroves]

You'll want a DEX 21 for Improved Sneak Attack and Combat Arcery.


I'd start an 18 in each INT and DEX. With a +2 tome that's a 20 DEX, only needing one level up. If you're lucky or spend the TP, you can hit a 21 DEX and get the feats you need. Rest of the levels into INT.

18 INT + all levels
18 DEX (+ 2 tome + 1 level) or (+3 tome)
12 CON
2 points left over - either CON or STR

[vraelliott]

The feats on the list look fine. You might want to consider going human just so you can get all of the feats mentioned thus far (in no particular order):
Rapid Shot
Rapid Reload
Precision
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Toughness
IC: Ranged
Point Blank Shot
Improved Sneak Attack
Combat Archery

Abilities (28/32 pts):
STR: 10 / 10
DEX: 16 / 16 (+ all levels, biggest issue I had on my mechanic was to-hit)
CON: 14 / 16 (2nd biggest issue: hit points)
INT: 16 / 16 (trap skills will be fine, and, at least for a first lifer, I'd prioritize DEX for to-hit over the extra couple points of damage)
WIS: 8 / 8
CHA: 8 / 8

Human gets an extra skill point (so a human with 16 INT gets the same number of skill points/level as a drow with 18 INT), can use human versatility damage boost w/ Rogue Haste boost at the same time for some brutal DPS. But most importantly the extra feat. Being able to take all the feats I listed above is pretty important IMO.

Make sure you take the Deadly Shadow Captsone and not Cheat Death. +4D6 Sneak attack dice is way too good to pass up. Puts you at 14d6 @ 20 and with Shadowdancer maxed, 20d6. Pretty awesome. The +2 INT from deadly shadow is gravy (unless you're an assassin, in which case it's awesome-sauce).

[unbongwah]

Not a fan of repeater Mechanics these days; nevertheless I would do something like this on a drow:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Drow Female
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 242
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 20
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity            17                    26
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         18                    26
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             10                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device III
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

Epic feats: Imp Sneak Atk & Combat Archery (both req DEX 21)

Technically you could pull this build off without any tomes by putting lvl-ups into DEX instead of INT; but why not be optimistic? The idea is to use a +2 DEX tome to qualify for IPS; hopefully you'll pull one of those new-fangled +2->+3 upgrade tomes before lvl 20 and can hit DEX 21 by putting your lvl 20 stat pt into DEX.

If you like living dangerously, you could drop Toughness, move Precision up to lvl 3, then take Rapid Shot as your lvl 18 feat. IIRC, Rapid Shot is ~5% DPS increase for repeaters; hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

I would start w/shortbows (or heck even throwing weapons), then switch to light repeaters once you hit lvl 6 / Mechanic I (hence why I take PBS first and RR @ lvl 6).

[Foxhound3857]

I don't want to add any of my level up points to Int because you don't get previous-level skill points for doing so, unlike Toughness where you'll get extra HP for all levels you've gained so far. So I want all my lup points to go into Dex, which would be 21 by level 20 (23 with a +2 tome).

So let's see:

Lv1 (Lv20 w/ tomes)
Str: 8 (10)
Dex: 17 (24)
Con: 14 (16)
Int: 18 (20)
Wis: 8 (10)
Cha: 10 (12)

Feats:

Lv1: Point Blank Shot
Lv3: Toughness
Lv6: Rapid Reload
Lv9: Precise Shot
Lv12: IC - Ranged Weapons
Lv15: Improved Precise Shot
Lv18: Rapid Shot
ELv21: Improved Sneak Attack
ELv24: Combat Archery

Does that look a bit better?

[Therigar]

Not a fan of repeater Mechanics these days;

I have to agree.

There is absolutely no reason to build this character when so many other options will do the same things only better.

Unless the mythical enhancement pass actually arrives and there are significant improvements to the mechanic PrE it is a very poor choice for players. And even then we don't know what builds should look like to take advantage of whatever changes come.

My personal favorite if going for a repeater build with full rogue-like abilities is 6 rogue/12 artificer/2 anything else. This gives Mechanic I for INT damage on the repeaters and artificer Battle Engineer.

There was a recent post about 13 rogue Assassin/6 artificer Battle Engineer/1 ranger. This uses insightful strike for INT damage but is on a half-elf or elf for arcane archer as well -- giving it a lot of flexibility in ranged attacks.

I suggested a rogue/artificer/monk combo a while back that would get mechanic, battle engineer, ninja spy and also was an AA with 10k stars as well.

Even a pure artificer will be a better repeater build than a mechanic (although I'm a fan of splashing at least 2 rogue or monk for evasion).

Obviously the decision is yours and yours alone. But, from a game perspective it is one of the worst build choices you can make.

[Foxhound3857]

I'm not going to be turned away from a certain class/build just because others can do it better, even when it's built right. I thought this game was all about playing what you enjoy.

[unbongwah]

I don't want to add any of my level up points to Int because you don't get previous-level skill points for doing so, unlike Toughness where you'll get extra HP for all levels you've gained so far. So I want all my lup points to go into Dex, which would be 21 by level 20 (23 with a +2 tome).

On a Mechanic, you boost your INT because it boosts your DPS; the extra skill pts are pure gravy. You only need to boost your base DEX high enough to hit the min. pre-reqs for IPS (19) and ISA+CA (21); anything more than that is overkill. Of course, what it takes to hit DEX 21 by lvl 21 depends on what DEX tome you expect to be able to take by then. My build presumes +2 DEX before lvl 15 (IPS), +2->+3 upgrade tome by lvl 21.

Lv18: Rapid Shot

My hunch is the -25% Fortification from Precision will be more useful in epics than the slight boost to atk speed from Rapid Shot. Since feats are at such a premium on this build, I would take that instead. [And you do always have the option of swapping Toughness for Rapid Shot once you have all your HP gear.] But I'd like to see someone who's better at DPS calcs than me to weigh in...

There is absolutely no reason to build this character when so many other options will do the same things only better.

. . .

But, from a game perspective it is one of the worst build choices you can make.

Let's not be melodramatic. For one thing, there's no indication the OP has Artificer or can make a Monkcher or any of the other options you cite. I always base my builds on what I know about the player's limitations or preferences, not what I think they should be playing. Second, a well-geared and properly played Mechanic still puts out a lot of DPS; the fact a TWF Assassin will outshine it doesn't immediately render the Mechanic an useless gimp. And the silver lining to playing a Mechanic on a drow is (A) you can dump-stat STR to focus on DEX, INT, and CON and (B) if you're doing it right, you ought to be keeping clear of the main fracas and avoiding being hit, while still being close enough to get your ranged sneak atks.

[Foxhound3857]

*sigh*

Guess I'll just try a Drow Assassin then, hopefully a nice easy class to play effectively.

Str: 14 (16)
Dex: 18 (25)
Con: 12 (14)
Int: 16 (18)
Wis: 8 (10)
Cha: 10 (12)

Lv1: TWF
Lv3: Weapon Finesse
Lv6: Toughness
Lv9: ITWF
Lv12: IC: Piercing Weapons
Lv15: GTWF
Lv18: Precision or Power Attack

[Jasparion]

*sigh*

Guess I'll just try a Drow Assassin then, hopefully a nice easy class to play effectively.

Play what you want. Just be aware that if you group with others they may have strong opinions on what you should and should not do.

Far better being a good player with a toon you enjoy, than a bad player with a toon you dont like.

[Therigar]

I'm not going to be turned away from a certain class/build just because others can do it better, even when it's built right. I thought this game was all about playing what you enjoy.

Nor should you. But you deserve to understand the implications that go with the build choice.

Let's not be melodramatic. For one thing, there's no indication the OP has Artificer or can make a Monkcher or any of the other options you cite.

You know full well that I'm usually right there trying to figure out how to help a player make a build work. I'm not trying to tell OP what to do, only to point out that even when well done the rogue mechanic is among the worst build choices in the game.

Guess I'll just try a Drow Assassin then, hopefully a nice easy class to play effectively.

Thought you weren't going to be turned away just because other builds are better.

If playing a rogue mechanic is what you really want to do then go for it. Just understand its limits.

If I were to attempt such a build I'd go for a multiclass with a number of fighter levels for extra combat feats. Drow with its innately higher DEX and INT isn't a bad racial choice. Try looking at a rogue 13/fighter 6/anything 1 split. That lets you get mechanic 2, 7d6 sneak damage, 4 melee feats from fighter levels, improved evasion and still has a level left over.

With 11 feats before L20 you can get all the shooting feats you'll need plus the TWF line for melee support. You possibly have enough feats for improved critical for both the ranged and melee weapons.

As long as you know up front that mechanic isn't the best choice but are willing to work with it then go ahead. IIRC that's how I concluded my last post as well.

[Todkaninchen]

2 more dex and 2 less int would net you 2 build points. Drop listen.

Listen's a situationally useful skill, more useful for a ranged character because it can pop things into your focus orb that you can then hit without chasing down. Personally, I like it because I have skill points for it.

Also, the INT is an extra point of damage and--with he DEX he has and decent bows--he's probably going to have little trouble hitting things or evading. I'd leave it as is on the attributes.

Another strategy is to build now with the higher INT and use the free lesser reincarnate later (when you have the STR gear and tomes) to rebuild with the higher DEX and keep the higher INT by leaving it at 6 STR w/ a +2 tome and +6 STR item on top of it. He'll then get all the skill points and have the DEX for Combat Archery without having to give up damage and the skills in the meantime.

I have yet to buy any tomes for this character. I want to make sure my build is solid before I commit any money to it.

Feats:

Lv1: Toughness
Lv3: Rapid Shot
Lv6: Point Blank Shot
Lv9: Rapid Reload
Lv12: Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Lv15: Precise Shot
Lv18: Improved Precise Shot

Thoughts?

Point Blank shot needs to be first. Until you hit 6, you're going to be stuck with either a shortbow or melee weapons. Unless you've got a Sky-Pirate's Dagger or Tiefling Assassin's Blade (min level 4 anyway), your damage with melee will suck bad. Point Blank at least gives you 2d6 damage a hit and you should hit most of the time...

You will also--if you're actually trying to get sneak attack damage--need to be in Point Blank Shot range anyway...

Rapid shot also stacks with Rapid Reload for repeater speed. It's not a huge amount faster, but it works. In the mean-time, you've got a better chance at doing damage with the shortbow you're stuck with...

Also, consider replacing the Precise Shot combo with Precision and something else... (Just consider it, don't do it unless you find yourself mainly fighting things one at a time like I do. I use bluff to pull things apart solo and usually knock things down pretty fast anyway. The extra break on enemy fortification along with things like Armor Piercing on Black Dragonhide and Oppurtunist means I even pull the occasional sneak attack and critical on undead.)

*sigh*

Guess I'll just try a Drow Assassin then, hopefully a nice easy class to play effectively.

Honestly?

I have a level 19 pure rogue mechanic, a level 21 pure Arti, a level 10 rogue assassin, and a 2nd life rogue mechanic that's Arti 1/rogue 12 right now and was a Fighter 1/rogue 21 last life. (I don't have Epic Destinies yet).

All the way through, the rogue mech was the easiest to solo with, but I'm a gear-nazi too. My current frustration with the rogue assassin is how often I actually have to skill boost to find traps the mechs can flat-foot.

(All of them are halflings, the rogue assassin is almost the same build but a 32-pointer with a dumped STR and a pair of Sky-Pirate's Daggers, a pair of Midnight Greetings, a Tiefling Assassin's Blade, a Staff of Nat Gann, and a Chieftan's Spear. Oh, and a Sun-Blade for undead.) I also don't like having to chase things down, facing things I can't kill because of range, etc.

Don't get me wrong, both builds can usually pull higher kill counts than most of the fighters, barbarians, etc. I run with. It's just more of a pain and more time healing and dealing with mummy rot and all that other stuff. By comparison, my rogue mechs are my "Easy Button".

The Arti, by comparison, was a very fast leveler but is a bit more fragile, even with the same basic build, and you spend a lot of time trying to manage the dog, spells, tossing rezzes in level (which, actually, I do with my rogue mechanics too), trying not to die on traps, etc. If I had to make a comparison, you need an MBA to effectively play a full-on Arti, a high school diploma to run an assassin ("Sneak there, stab until dead"), and an associate's degree for a rogue mechanic primarily due to learning what gear works and turns on the sneak attack damage plus what skills are actually useful, and how to manage to not run out of bolts at inopportune times.

So, play what you like. Try the rogue mechanic if you like. You've got some decent build advice and started with a reasonable build anyway. Back it up with the gear and a practice and you'll do okay.

Oh, and whatever flavor of rogue you start, Lacerating is your friend at low levels. A shortbow of lacerating on a character with pointblank shot is a 2d6 + 1d8 + 1d4 + sneak attack damage weapon. When you level up, find one with an elemental damage on the front...

Good luck!

[Foxhound3857]

What kind of weapon should I be going for at the moment? I'm level 6 with a +1 Acid Light Repeater of Bleed, which is lv5 crafted. The weapon I'm trying to get is a +2 Acid (or Shock, Flaming, or Frost) Light Repeater of Lacerating, but nobody is selling one.

Are there better options for a prefix/suffix combo right now?

[Foxhound3857]

Question: Does the Mechanic prestige automatically apply your Int bonus to repeater damage, or is there a skill you need to activate to get the damage boost from Int?

And how much damage exactly does Point Blank shot add?

[unbongwah]

Question: Does the Mechanic prestige automatically apply your Int bonus to repeater damage

Correct.

And how much damage exactly does Point Blank shot add?

It adds +1[W] to shots within 45 ft, where "W" is whatever the base die dmg of your ranged weapon is. So for a normal heavy repeater it would be +1d10 dmg, for epic ones it's usually +2d10. The Combat Archery epic feat adds another +1[W]...assuming it's finally been fixed.

EDIT: since PBS and ranged SAs have the same range, you'll be wanting to stay close enough to your targets to benefit from both.

[karl_k0ch]

Question: Does the Mechanic prestige automatically apply your Int bonus to repeater damage, or is there a skill you need to activate to get the damage boost from Int?

And how much damage exactly does Point Blank shot add?

It's automatically applied.

PDS adds +1[W] when in point blank range, i.e. +1d8 for a light repeater, and +1d10 for a heavy one, when in point blank range.

/edit: unbongwaaaaaaaaaaaah!