Where do people get these builds...

[HastyPudding]

The only way you can tell if someone is good or horrible is to quest with them, not to look at their build.

If you see a 6/6 wizard/sorcerer who wants to join your group, let him join. If you run a quest with him and he's fun to group with, I guess he doesn't have a horrible build. If he dies every four seconds while screaming how awesome he is, then don't group with him again.

There isn't one "right" way to build anything. There isn't even two. If your own character is too weak to survive with anything less than a full group of uber-geared min-maxers's with multiple past lives, then it's time to TR and roll a better character yourself.

I did group with the guy, as I gave him the benefit of the doubt (which is how I found out he had a very poor build and playstyle), but he got kicked after we did 2 vale quests, as he died several times within the first and twice within the second, mostly due to his going off on his own and not knowing how to take care of himself. Sometimes you just have to let them go and hope they learn something elsewhere.

I also can't stand that last line. I can take care of myself perfectly fine without a group of TR's. Is it bad to want to group with competent people that somebody doesn't have to hold their hand through quests? Somebody that's not an automatic 10% penalty? I also don't mind carrying others through quests so long as they learn something in the process.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Yesterday made a TR party, i seen a lot of trash joining, 2 stayed 4 kikked out.
Rude? Maybe but they should read LFM that say "TR only" and don't join if they r 1st life, or 100 HP at lvl 13 and... "wich quest?" meh yu should ceck in location of my toon, but still ok to reply "oob" "what is oob?" -> kik

IMO this is only way to teach em something

Sounds like you did them a favor.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

if you dont have a 2-3 gimp builds in your stable, then you arent trying hard enough. character building is the best part of this game and if you dont get creative then youre missing out. i'm lvling a ranger/wizard/rogue and it's a blast.

[mobrien316]

I did group with the guy, as I gave him the benefit of the doubt (which is how I found out he had a very poor build and playstyle), but he got kicked after we did 2 vale quests, as he died several times within the first and twice within the second, mostly due to his going off on his own and not knowing how to take care of himself. Sometimes you just have to let them go and hope they learn something elsewhere.

I also can't stand that last line. I can take care of myself perfectly fine without a group of TR's. Is it bad to want to group with competent people that somebody doesn't have to hold their hand through quests? Somebody that's not an automatic 10% penalty? I also don't mind carrying others through quests so long as they learn something in the process.

A "bad player" is not synonymous with a "bad build." You can have a bad player with one of the "approved" cookie cutter builds from the forums, and the player will still be bad.

Your original post was complaining about builds. You cannot tell if a player is good or bad by their build. In my experience, the overwhelming majority of people who berate others for build/HP/gear/SP/whatever are the weakest characters who need several uber-geared min-maxers in their group to make up for their own gimpyness.

If you had someone in your group who died frequently (when no one else was dying) because he kept wandering off by himself and was unable to handle it, then you had a bad player in your group. The same player with an "approved" build would still be just as clueless and just as worthless to the group.

However, by attacking his "build" rather than his clueless, inept style of play, you are adding fuel to the fire that there are "approved" ways to build a character, and anything less than a build that has been posted and thoroughly vetted on the forums is likely to get you banned from groups by clueless gimps.

There are already plenty of morons in the game who feel they can tell if a player is good or bad by viewing their HP, SP, class split, MyDDO page, or by asking them to link gear. Please do the game a favor and don't add to that misconception by railing about "builds" when you really mean "clueless, inept play."