12 rogue 6 ranger 2 fighter

[skinn1994]

just planning something for my mains next life could use some help wondering if this build would be any good

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Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(2 Fighter \ 12 Rogue \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 330
Spell Points: 65 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 24
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    22
Dexterity            14                    18
Constitution         14                    18
Intelligence         17                    26
Wisdom                9                    13
Charisma              8                    12

Tomes Used
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                     4
Bluff                -1                     5
Concentration         2                     4
Diplomacy            -1                     1
Disable Device        7                    35
Haggle               -1                     1
Heal                 -1                     2
Hide                  6                    33
Intimidate           -1                     4
Jump                  3                     6
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         6                    33
Open Lock             6                     8
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                3                     8
Search                7                    35
Spot                  3                    28
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                n/a                   5
Use Magic Device      3                     8

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Barbarian
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Mixed Heritage
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Social Graces (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapmaking
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device III
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device IV
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Search II
Enhancement: Improved Search III
Enhancement: Improved Search IV
Enhancement: Improved Spot I
Enhancement: Improved Spot II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense III

[skinn1994]

assasinate dc should be around 53 at endgame 25 from int 10base 12lvls of rogue 6 ED
int 26 base with +4tome (+8 item +1excep +3inhere +6 from ed all lvl ups to int +1 and +2 epic int feat +2 ship buffs) total 51 int
why khobesh ? couse i have a min2 and lit2 siting in bank

[Dielzen]

Personally I'd go 13rog/1ftr

I'd also get evasion before Level 11

Don't forget to add your +1s from Fighter passive PL benefit to the DC. Don't spend your 21/24 feats on a measly +1 to your DC (in fact, the 24 feat just puts you at an odd INT score or 51?, so is a complete waste)

As to how this build will actually play? Seems like weak DPS until you get Assassinate, and will be painful to level up unless you're piking in a TR group.

[skinn1994]

the leveling order will change it was just something i but together fast
and looked your succestion 12rog 1 figh up il lose 1 feat that il need

[Dielzen]

If you "need" a feat, I just mentioned that spending a feat choice on an odd INT point is a waste, so replace that INT point with the missing feat. Problem solved.

[unbongwah]

What exactly is the incentive for not going pure rogue on this build?

[AlteredState]

manyshot?

[Kinerd]

I think your stat layout could use some tweaking. If you drop Int and Wis by 1, you can have a starting Dex of 16, which with one level-up and your +4 tome qualifies you for Improved Sneak Attack. This also lets you more comfortably swap Insightful Reflexes for something more useful like Precision.

Unless you're going for Overwhelming Critical, Cleave is useless for you. A very large part (probably a majority) of your DPS comes from sneak attack, Cleaving greatly complicates aggro management. Dropping 1 fighter lets you pick up Improved Evasion (and another 1d6 sneak) via rogue 13, which is way way way way more useful than Cleave.

The PL: Barb purchased feat is also a tough sell to me. You gain 7 from level 25 of regular Toughness, and the clicky is not strong especially for someone who wants to use UMD. (More on this later.)

Waaaay too much AP in skills. Human Versatility and Rogue Haste Boost is a fabulous combination, you have 0 in each.

Another fabulous combination is UMD, Wand and Scroll Mastery, and Heal Amp.

[unbongwah]

manyshot?

Had he made an AA, I would've presumed he was following in my (gimpy) footsteps a la Triple A. But he went Tempest (which provides a smaller DPS boost than it used to) and gave no indication in his OP he really cared about ranged DPS. Meanwhile he's sacrificing -9 Assassinate DC (8 rog lvls + 2 INT from capstone), 9D6 sneak atk (4d6 from rog lvls 13-19, 1d6 from Assassin III, 4d6 from capstone), and vorpal strike effect from Assassin III; also he can't take Imp Sneak Atk (+3D6 SA) w/out DEX 21.

Basically my point is a pure Assassin has very strong DPS; I can't figure out what he's trying to achieve thru MCing here.

[skinn1994]

why not pure rogue , well as ive seen vorpal aint that good of a feat these days and not so great of a lover of sneak attack damage and why range lvls well not for the manyshot but to improve the 2wf a liddle on the build free 2wf and improved 2wf feat that dosnt need me to have 17 dex and for ranger spells.
For cleave its fun in the lower lvls helps out a lot might change it later on
If i replaced 1 of the int feats it would just make me have to take the needed feat do late in the game lvl 21 ; 23
but ya the int feat will get changed to something else might to some feat changing when 25 to improve the build some more. Looked up precision and seems they changed it at u14 using Precision no longer halves your damage. So il be trying to get that in there somewhere aswell maybe will change the cleave for it after im done with low lvls.
Hmmmm saw kinerd say that PL: Barb purchased feat aint good ? hmm gives same effect as a normal toughness and a rage clicky whats so bad about that seeying as this builds going for int and str based endgame str around 30 with a +8 item and no other clikis at all aint hard to boost str up even more (for excample 30 base +2 rams might +2 rage pot/spell +6 titans grip clicky +2 yugo pot +4 from the PL: barb clicky +4 from double madstone = 50 str could get to 54 with a +1 exceptional and a +3 inherent item but that would make me lose int) and the str would be if i staying on the rogue ED but propably conna take the +6 assassinate twist and stay on a barb ED (losing 3 assassinate DC with it )

[unbongwah]

why not pure rogue , well as ive seen vorpal aint that good of a feat these days and not so great of a lover of sneak attack damage and why range lvls well not for the manyshot but to improve the 2wf a liddle on the build free 2wf and improved 2wf feat that dosnt need me to have 17 dex and for ranger spells.

I didn't even notice you didn't have GTWF. So you trade GTWF, which is +20% offhand proc, for the three Tempest I pre-reqs, which only provides +10% offhand proc. Still not seeing the upside here, esp. considering you list a +4 Supreme tome - or is that just wishful thinking?

Also, if you're "not so great of a lover of sneak attack damage," why do you want so many rog lvls in the first place? If it's just for a rog PL, you could do something like rog 8 / rgr 6 / <3rd class> 6 instead.

[skinn1994]

I didn't even notice you didn't have GTWF. So you trade GTWF, which is +20% offhand proc, for the three Tempest I pre-reqs, which only provides +10% offhand proc. Still not seeing the upside here, esp. considering you list a +4 Supreme tome - or is that just wishful thinking?

Thanks for poiting out that i didnt have GTWF its conna be there in place of cleave or at lvl 21 looking atm when to take precision.
And why 12 rogue ? Well i like the assassinate skill.

[Kinerd]

Hmmmm saw kinerd say that PL: Barb purchased feat aint good ? hmm gives same effect as a normal toughness and a rage clicky whats so bad about that

It doesn't give the same effect as Toughness, is my point. You're 7 HP short. Is that build-breaking, no, but it's still 7 you don't have to give up.

The rage clicky is a very negligible DPS increase (30 seconds once per rest) that prevents you from using UMD, not a good combination.