Not a PSA: What are BBs?

[Missing_Minds]

Thanks, ED's are still very new to me, and I would have not had the slightest idea where to even start looking.

Google. Search "ddo wiki gird of demons" and the very first hit is

http://ddowiki.com/page/Fury_of_the_Wild

At which point you do a search using your browser's search function for "demons"

Gird is the first hit.

And now you know.

[Veriden]

I'm actually curious now.... barb with energy vortex / dragon breath ... hmmm could be very funny.

you know...I didn't seriously think of it till you said something but also the energy shield 'lightning' would be a great damage guard in there...might get pretty interesting...better stick with magister then xD

[Keybreaker]

How does a DR-breaking ESoS (e.g. good slotted, silver buffed) compare to a +5 Holy Burst Silver Greataxe of GEOB? If it's behind, is the investion to craft a LoB/Demon/Devil beater seperately justified?

If you're going to bother crafting an eSoS, then slot Devil's Ruin Crystal and if an artificer is available, then buff with Deadly Weapons. If facing demons with Cold Iron DR, then Gird Against Demons is nice.

This is ideal for THF. You want to be self-sufficient in DR-breaking. It better for your toon, better for the party, and easier and better for an available artie to pass out Deadly Weapons buff to all melees then a mess of different buffs to each toon between every shrine and death.

If you're not a powergamer, why bother crafting an eSoS? Devil's Ruin Crystals are a very common drop in eDA (which is worth doing for all sorts of reasons) and they last surprisingly long.

[karl_k0ch]

If you're not a powergamer, why bother crafting an eSoS? .

I was referring to cannith crafting the boss beater.

What if the barb in question has a Good Slotted ESoS (and cannot afford devil's ruin), which he uses as a generic trash beater.
And because he likes his ESoS so much, he asks for Silver so he doesn't need to put it away, even in boss fights.
Is this a plausible scenario?
Is this a reasonable decision?

[Keybreaker]

What if the barb in question has a Good Slotted ESoS (and cannot afford devil's ruin), which he uses as a generic trash beater.
And because he likes his ESoS so much, he asks for Silver so he doesn't need to put it away, even in boss fights.
Is this a plausible scenario?
Is this a reasonable decision?

I can't tell you what's reasonable for you. But I wouldn't and I don't play that way. It's generally much harder to craft an eSoS than it is to pick up a Devil's Ruin crystal (or several). An artificer will not always be around. What will you do then?

An Epic Antique Greataxe is a nice backup and in certain, very restricted circumstances, in a particular Dreadnaught setup, can outshine a basic eSoS, even one with a Heaven's Light crystal. It's extremely easy to make a +5 Holy Burst Silver X of GEOB. If you have a DR-breaker, you can also benefit from Deadly Weapons should an artificer be around.

Whether or not a non-DR-breaking eSoS will out-DPS a crafted DR-breaker depends on a lot of variables: build, buffs, feats, class, ED, etc. BUT a DR-breaking eSoS will always outperform a non-DR-breaking eSoS when you need to break DR... that should go without saying, but you've made me say it.

Karl, I don't know what your agenda is. Do you want me to say, "it's ok to be gimp?" Do you want to prove it's ok to be gimp? I don't think it is, and I don't think you can make that case categorically. But what I think only matters to people that agree with me anyway. Such is the way of the world, especially the forum world.

[Ungood]

Google. Search "ddo wiki gird of demons" and the very first hit is

http://ddowiki.com/page/Fury_of_the_Wild

At which point you do a search using your browser's search function for "demons"

Gird is the first hit.

And now you know.

I do find this rather insulting. I mean really, on a on-line site about games and computer gamers, you think anyone doesn't know about Google? Really?

Ok. and the tone of your post makes it pretty clear you need a "Now you know" moment.

When someone asks a question that simple, they don't need some smarty pants telling them "Use Google" because there are either two reasons why they would ask that question in that manner.

The Main reason is - They might not really care or Already Know. In the case of the OP there was this huge image put up by a posters they knew in game. The topic of course was nothing but venting and a bit of self puffery. The reality is, they more then likely asked such a question to let the other poster brag a bit about their Item/Ability/Accomplishment/whatever, or maybe even let the Poster expound on the effects of being in the best ED possible (If you looked at the linked Post in the OP, It would have made much more sense).

Now, I'll be blunt, I don't give a rats booger about what ED he was in, my main (and only active melee) is level 2 Recently TRed, it was a door opener question.

But hey, thanks for telling me to "use Google" I never would have figured that out on my own.

/Sarcasm.

and Now you know.

[Missing_Minds]

and Now you know.

That you are lazy?

Thanks, ED's are still very new to me, and I would have not had the slightest idea where to even start looking.

I'd say you were quite clear in what you know and what you did not.

[Ungood]

I'd say you were quite clear in what you know and what you did not.

That's called being polite, you might want to google it.

[katz]

lol



*Un sees image Key posted. thinks to self 'hmm. interesting. never seen that before. i don't really care that much, because i already have good boss beaters and i'm fixing to TR tomorrow. cue polite small talk'. "What ED are you in that is giving you the Gird?" *waits to give Key a chance to brag on the ED a bit. gets attacked instead.*




polite small talk


but eh. i guess being polite has no place on the internet.

[karl_k0ch]

Karl, I don't know what your agenda is. Do you want me to say, "it's ok to be gimp?" Do you want to prove it's ok to be gimp?

The aim of my posts is the following: Just asking for Silver weapons does not automatically imply that you do not care for boss beaters. It may mean that the player is an ignorant fool who likes to be dragged through quests by other people. But it also may not.

Imho, it's plausible that a barbarian is aware of the fact that one should get Boss Beaters, but he's still asking for a Silver buff.

I hope the following scenario explains my 'agenda': Suppose I am not using Headman's Chop, and there is an ESoS (slotted with good, not devil's ruin) and an EAGA in my backback, and I want to fight a pit fiend, is it better to use the EAGA (and ask for deadly) or use the eSoS (and ask for silver)? (Obviously, the answer depends on the particular build and gear, but still: It's not entirely unreasonable that the answer is 'use the eSoS', is it?)

If this scenario does not explain enough, I suggest to leave it at this. Apparently, I've whiteknighted that gimp rogue mentioned in the OP. I will stop now.
I am not trying to make you say anything you don't want to, and I am also not promoting that players should be oblivious of good weapon options.

[scoobmx]

The aim of my posts is the following: Just asking for Silver weapons does not automatically imply that you do not care for boss beaters. It may mean that the player is an ignorant fool who likes to be dragged through quests by other people. But it also may not.

Imho, it's plausible that a barbarian is aware of the fact that one should get Boss Beaters, but he's still asking for a Silver buff.

I hope the following scenario explains my 'agenda': Suppose I am not using Headman's Chop, and there is an ESoS (slotted with good, not devil's ruin) and an EAGA in my backback, and I want to fight a pit fiend, is it better to use the EAGA (and ask for deadly) or use the eSoS (and ask for silver)? (Obviously, the answer depends on the particular build and gear, but still: It's not entirely unreasonable that the answer is 'use the eSoS', is it?)

If this scenario does not explain enough, I suggest to leave it at this. Apparently, I've whiteknighted that gimp rogue mentioned in the OP. I will stop now.
I am not trying to make you say anything you don't want to, and I am also not promoting that players should be oblivious of good weapon options.

I'm not sure what the argument is. Just use whatever is the best DPS for you. If you have an arty, then ask for the appropriate buff to maximize your DPS. This may be silver weapons. I have a toon like that: ESOS slotted with Demon's Ruin and the next greatsword down is a pretty crappy crafted one. He's only proficient with greatswords (follower of the Lord of Blades favored soul) and the feat that could've gone to weapon proficiency was spent on Adamantine Body. I have another toon that prefers to use the old Enduring Convictions with the cold iron weapons buff over a general DR breaker with deadly weapons for demons.

Of course, I'm fully expecting someone to say 'WF FVS are gimp - TR into another race and free up the feat'.

[Keybreaker]

I hope the following scenario explains my 'agenda': Suppose I am not using Headman's Chop, and there is an ESoS (slotted with good, not devil's ruin) and an EAGA in my backback, and I want to fight a pit fiend, is it better to use the EAGA (and ask for deadly) or use the eSoS (and ask for silver)? (Obviously, the answer depends on the particular build and gear, but still: It's not entirely unreasonable that the answer is 'use the eSoS', is it?)

It's "entirely unreasonable" and irrational to choose to be suboptimal. If we're splitting hairs, a rational person would figure out which weapons/setup does more damage. The rational choice would be to do more DPS (and consequently increase chance of success, speed of completion, and reduce the burden on partymates).

The only "rationalization" to choose to do less DPS than one is capable of is either (1) ignorance, or (2) an irrational, emotional attachment to a certain weapon, its cosmetics, or simply wanting to show off.

Just because you can or attempt to "rationalize" something, doesn't make it rational or reasonable.

It's not reasonable by the definition of reason. If you mean, do a lot of people choose to be suboptimal? Sure. Yes. Do they claim to be reasonable? I don't know. Will most players put up with it? Most of the time. Yes. But if your hypothetical barbarian actually needs to perform a raid critical role, like tanking, he'd better know not only his optimal DPS output, but his optimal combination of DPS, incite, and healing amp. Why be completely dependent on luck, when you can substantially increase the probability of success with some rational choices? How "reasonable" will your choice be if Horoth turns around and cleaves the entire party to death?

Besides, I still reject your premise. Any player capable of grinding an eSoS should be able to acquire a Devil's Ruin crystal or several. The latter is far easier to acquire than the former.

[katz]

Besides, I still reject your premise. Any player capable of acquiring an eSoS should be able to acquire a Devil's Ruin crystal or several. The latter is far easier to acquire than the former.

i guess i better get crackin' grinding a quest i hate to amass a collection of augment crystals so i can be ready for when my bard finishes her eSOS.


OR i could politely ask a friendly arti "could i get silver please?...thank you." if one happens to be handy... or use my eAGA if not.




meh

[Keybreaker]

Why do you even respond if you don't read or can't understand what I've written? Have I said anything untrue? Have I claimed in any post that anyone HAD to do anything? Quite the contrary.

What you and Karl seem to want is license to be suboptimal. Of course you have that. But you can't expect everyone to agree that your choices are "reasonable." You don't have to be optimal and you don't have to be reasonable. No one said you did. What are you so proud of?

I'm not the one demanding everyone else accepts my playstyle. You are the one privileging anti-elitism as something that should be universally accepted.

But unless you can solo enough completions of eVON, every eSoS required a team effort to craft. Some players will make the most use out of one and contribute more to more people experiencing more of the game, and apparently for some players, it'll just be something to show off. Meh. Rolleyes.

i guess i better get crackin' grinding a quest i hate to amass a collection of augment crystals so i can be ready for when my bard finishes her eSOS.


OR i could politely ask a friendly arti "could i get silver please?...thank you." if one happens to be handy... or use my eAGA if not.




meh

[katz]

Why do you even respond if you don't read or can't understand what I've written? Have I said anything untrue? Have I claimed in any post that anyone HAD to do anything? Quite the contrary.

What you and Karl seem to want is license to be suboptimal. Of course you have that. But you can't expect everyone to agree that your choices are "reasonable." You don't have to be optimal and you don't have to be reasonable. No one said you did. What are you so proud of?

I'm not the one demanding everyone else accepts my playstyle. You are the one privileging anti-elitism as something that should be universally accepted.

But unless you can solo enough completions of eVON, every eSoS required a team effort to craft. Some players will make the most use out of one and contribute more to more people experiencing more of the game, and apparently for some players, it'll just be something to show off. Meh. Rolleyes.

my reading comprehension is fine. you've not told me i HAD to do anything, agreed. but what you HAVE told me is that i am sub-optimal if i show up with a eSOS and have the gall to ask for a silver buff if there's an arti handy because i didn't already farm a quest i happen to dislike (even tho i can, and have, run it a few times... this is how i know i dislike it).


course, then again... i'm a HALFING virtuoso 16 bard/2 barb/2 rogue split. i'm probably about as sub-optimal as it gets to a true "power gamer". heck, there are probably people reading this right now and twitching. but i hit stuff hard, i break all DRs, i sing - it STOPS, and i can handle EE traps. *shrug*


and as for teamwork... no, maybe i can't solo the raid like Shaatan can... so i'll need a hand there from my friends to pull my shard...got the base from my 20th list. but i got the scroll, and am working on getting the seal, solo. on said bard.

[SemiraLynn]

Extreme Grinders - "Everyone who is not like me is lazy or stupid."
Heavy Grinders - "Most people not like me are complete n00bs."
Moderate Grinders - "Some of those casual players are frustrating to play with."
Casual Players - "Sometimes those elite players can be rude."
Very Casual Players - "Most highly geared elite running players are snobs."
Extremely Casual Players - "Every high-end player loaded with awesome gear is an elitist jerk."

Most conflicts in DDO seems to be between how much grind different types of people can tolerate. People who grind a lot look down on people who don't grind as much. People who don't grind a lot think those grinders are taking some silly game way too seriously. If people would just stick to their own grinding circle then all would be well. Or at least, when you step out of your grinding circle automatically expect everyone to grind more or less than you. And if you find people who grind the same amount, it's a bonus!

At the end of the day, a lot of people (I would even wager most) don't care if someone is sub-optimal. They don't want a complete piker, but if someone isn't the greatest, then that's okay. It's just a game and as long as the raid/quest is successful all is well. To some that is not good enough and that is fine. But only if you're the party leader. Otherwise it's kind of...too bad.

Also, taking 15 minutes to get to any quest or raid is very inconsiderate. The party leader should have kicked that Rogue!

[karl_k0ch]

I'm not the one demanding everyone else accepts my playstyle. You are the one privileging anti-elitism as something that should be universally accepted.

We seem to have a terrible misunderstanding. This is not what I am trying to say.

[Keybreaker]

what you HAVE told me is that i am sub-optimal if i show up with a eSOS and have the gall to ask for a silver buff if there's an arti handy

Um... yea. Sub-optimal. eSoS + silver < eSoS + deadly.

You insist others not call you sub-optimal when you are sub-optimal.

(Some arties even carry silver and other metal bolts so they can cast Deadly Weapons on themselves for boss fights.)

You insist others be open-minded and accepting of your casual playstyle and peculiar choices, but you are close-minded and rejecting of another legitimate playstyle, a rational, optimizing one that considers the greater good not just selfish advantage. You'll grind for an eSoS shard with the help of ~11 other players each run, but can't be bothered to grind for something easier to get? (There are often FREE eDA chests on Orien...) That's your choice.

In a guild run (a GUILD run), I'd make sure the eSoS shard went to a toon that could make best use out of it, so that the group, our guild, can complete more raids, faster and more efficiently. This is how we loot counciled guild raids. If two guild bards, one with your attitude and one with the willingness to maximize (optimize) the weapon, both wanted the shard, my preference would be clear.

I will emphasize again that:

This is not a PSA. I don't expect anything to change.

Before I get the gimp-hammer thrown down, I did just say "another legitimate playstyle." Do whatever you want. But it's unfair and unreasonable to whine about being described accurately. Are your feelings hurt? Maybe. Is your pride injured? Perhaps. And while that was not the intent of any of this, I don't care and I can't help how you feel about factual observations. Observations, not recommendations. Observations, not requirements.

[katz]

You insist others not call you sub-optimal when you are sub-optimal.

course, then again... i'm a HALFING virtuoso 16 bard/2 barb/2 rogue split. i'm probably about as sub-optimal as it gets to a true "power gamer".

now who can't read or understand what's written? however, just because i am not at the absolute pinnacle of gaming perfection... does NOT mean i am 'casual'. things are not so black and white, even in the gaming world. but hey. i'll keep playing the game and enjoying myself and working at acquiring the best weapon i know of... because i know it's the best, and i'll wield it proudly when i get it.

[trog_star]

and you were doing so well Key, managed to keep yourself in check for a whole page.
Grats man.