PSA: Raids are not the place to level epic destinies

[zwiebelring]

And the same eltism pushed onto others by putting up threads with the 'PSA' tag.

In any case please apply, quote following:

In a world where only your time and your goals matter.

to the OPs PSA and nobody will have a problem. But making Orien pugs bad in general creates an image, which is not positive for the OP and your guild.

[juajuara]

For the love of Pete! Don't even hint at a suggestion that could be helpful if construed in a light slightly more positive than the darkest depths of despotism.

Hey! A new quest chain: Darkest Depths of Despotism!

[Anthios888]

People on your server are sure defensive!

Something tells me that Carpone isn't talking about epic normal Chronoscope. I don't think we're talking about shaving a few seconds off of a Hard Shroud, right?

As a raid leader, I really hate having to ask the Magister Monk if he might want to get his HP above 500 for epic elite Velah. Everyone acts like you're a huge jerk. There aren't many places where hit points truly matters, but I have had several EE VoN6 failures because I was too nice to tell people to meet baseline requirements.

You could also split the difference. It is possible to still get XP in a destiny, but be able to contribute fully. I tend to get "strong" destinies to level 4, and come back to them when I want to run a certain raid. Epic Elite Velah is a perfect example, because it's just hard to stay alive if you don't have a certain number of hit points (maybe 700 or more). It's not a bad idea for squishier melees to use Unyielding Sentinel, Legendary Dreadnought, or Fury of the Wild for a little extra padding. The same is true for many casters, even if it's not their main destiny. I try to pick a destiny that is sensible for the difficulty of the content, to make sure I'm doing my part.
That's a raid that is not extremely challenging, but can become chaotic if it turns out you brought 7 people instead of 12.

[tigerlilli]

I don't know what happened to the post you're responding to, it mysteriously disappeared. +1 to you. I think you may be my forum hero

TYVM for my very first neg rep ever! Although I figured it would be for something a lil more than passing out a +1, *shrugs*

Now you have gone and done it, be ready for the downvote rain!

I missed the warning lol

[CaptainFantasy]

I moved a character to Orien there isn't anything wrong with your server. It has the same problems as all the other servers, only problem I see wrong with your server is this one guild that thinks they're the best and put other people down and try to tell them how to play instead of showing them. Instead of being pricks to people maybe try to help them next time, or ask them to switch there destiny to help the raid along.

If this guild is so awesome why the hell are they pugging raids sounds stupid to me.

[Noopleh]

I moved a character to Orien there isn't anything wrong with your server. It has the same problems as all the other servers, only problem I see wrong with your server is this one guild that thinks they're the best and put other people down and try to tell them how to play instead of showing them. Instead of being pricks to people maybe try to help them next time, or ask them to switch there destiny to help the raid along.

If this guild is so awesome why the hell are they pugging raids sounds stupid to me.

Yeah it's the same everywhere to be honest, just people making a big fuss about it.

Why are they Pugging? Maybe to have an excuse to make threads like that and thus Drama.

[SealedInSong]

If you want people to be in their primary destiny in your raid, say so in your LFM. Yes you can run it faster in your primary on EH/EN etc but that is wasting their time by not leveling as they see fit. Not everyone wants to farm those same quests over and over. Your raid, your rules but if you want people to run their primaries only then let them know in the LFM.

I see your point, Carpone, but I personally am not so punitive on other people considering I am also one of those players that has not very much time to play their numerous characters and thus *must* level some destinies in raids as it's the only time I even play them.

That said, I would never enter an epic elite raid on anything less than a tier4 destiny, but that's mainly because I wouldn't personally feel comfortable having EE mobs swat me around. Less so because I wouldn't feel as if I'm pulling my own weight--that's debatable across every player and character.

Have this expectation in your LFM or possibly for EE without a disclaimer but otherwise be charitable to those of us that don't have the time to farm dun'Robar et al until our eyes bleed.

[~Quilny]

Yeah it's the same everywhere to be honest, just people making a big fuss about it.

Why are they Pugging? Maybe to have an excuse to make threads like that and thus Drama.

searth Ive always liked running with you and i would not have met you without pugging. Just because you do not need to pug doesnt mean you shouldn't just becuase you run into some bad pugs doesn't mean there isn't good ones out there. Everyone has their own way of playing and enjoying the game. Sounds like the majority of the forum go'ers on Orien want to level desinies in raids and Majority rules so people like me will just have to suck it up and deal with it.

I will make a prediction that in a year or so when everyone has capped destinies the standard will change. the newer players that join during this time will then be the minority and will have to be in main destinies i could be wrong but have 9 years of mmo experiance and History defanitly repeats itself.

[Noopleh]

searth Ive always liked running with you and i would not have met you without pugging. Just because you do not need to pug doesnt mean you shouldn't just becuase you run into some bad pugs doesn't mean there isn't good ones out there. Everyone has their own way of playing and enjoying the game. Sounds like the majority of the forum go'ers on Orien want to level desinies in raids and Majority rules so people like me will just have to suck it up and deal with it.

I will make a prediction that in a year or so when everyone has capped destinies the standard will change. the newer players that join during this time will then be the minority and will have to be in main destinies i could be wrong but have 9 years of mmo experiance and History defanitly repeats itself.

That's true, but in a social game like this you can't expect to play boss and have people listen to every order you obey. I used to post on my LFM to have active destiny and not levelling destiny but I gave up, partly because some people didn't listen and because telling people what to do isn't the right thing to do.

Pugging is the way to go, people are not realizing that, they prefer to stick to "guild runs" not realizing that THEM, the raiding guilds, are what is killing the game, less people raid and raid and certainly don't feel like raiding when they join a group and feels like it's a military boot camp. People will learn, at there own paces.

Some certain people should get off there high throne and realize there is NOTHING new here, pugs where always like that and most likely always be.

I am not saying people shouldn't take best epic destiny, which imo they should, but they should be let what they like most. Hell I mean what makes pug raid fun is the fact you know no one in the party and you have to communicate and coordinate with strangers, and there is always that chaotic general ambience when people run around like headless chickens.

May have strayed a bit off topic so I apologize if I have!

[bigolbear]

I moved a character to Orien there isn't anything wrong with your server. It has the same problems as all the other servers, only problem I see wrong with your server is this one guild that thinks they're the best and put other people down and try to tell them how to play instead of showing them. Instead of being pricks to people maybe try to help them next time, or ask them to switch there destiny to help the raid along.

If this guild is so awesome why the hell are they pugging raids sounds stupid to me.

Did you actualy party with any memebers of OR, did you join any of their raids or did they join any of yours? Or were you just listening to rumour.

I paly on orien, and frankly Ive never had a problem with any of the folks from OR.

They get a lot of stick, mainly because of jelousy. They are lvl 100 and last i heard dont share out thier ship - fair enuf, they paid for it, and they worked for it.

Ive had pleasant partying experiences with several members of OR - including their infamous leader, hell one of em (name removed - hes a drunk dwarf) used to be a member of my guild when he was a nooby(long time ago), left us to persue a role in a hardcore raiding guild.

I have never had any personal abuse from members of OR - even if i did something stupid and noobish because compared to those guys im a casual player and I dont know all the tricks.

Ive had helpful advice even from members of OR - when i was learning to shadow tank rather than kite, when I was learning LOB and MA, when I was learning CITW.

I can only speak for my personal experience but as some one who is already a reasonably advanced player looking to further their knowledge OR are nice enough folks, when it comes to new players who want it all handed to them on a silver platter tho can you realy blame them for telling people to learn things for them selves.

And ultimately this thread is about vets being sick of carying people through elite end game content, I have absolutely no doubt they could have shortmanned these raids rather than pugged the spots, The decision to pug is in the hopes of meeting like minded players. keep the hope alive.

[LOOON375]

Best thread of the week......by far.

I have only switched to main destiny for running CitW. Mostly because I am still trying to learn the raid well enough to start leading them. (my choice by the way)

To me, this is akin to demanding people have epic gear to run epic content (old epic) before the Xpac. Or asking for harry beater, and turning down the player that links a metalline of pure good weapon, and stating it isn't good enough.

If that's what you want, state it up front in your LFM.

If a quest failed, I would hardly think it would be totally and completely because someone wasn't in their primary destiny.

There are about a million different scenarios that could cause a group to fail. But hey, lets blame it on the destiny someone is in.

[Sunnyshadow]

Winning epic elite VoN6 with fatesinger bard, uber strong draconic sorcs, GMOF monks and pugs = cost, maybe 5 major potions, 100 something heal scrolls, and assorted plat in spell components.

Winning epic elite VoN6 with 12 wizards all in GMOF = priceless

For awesomeness, things that money can't buy, there's Sunny. For everything else, there's <insert your bank of choice card here>.

[Shaatan]

Hell I mean what makes pug raid fun is the fact you know no one in the party and you have to communicate and coordinate with strangers, and there is always that chaotic general ambience when people run around like headless chickens.

I have to admit, you have a dang weird definition of fun lol.
But now that I think of it, I joined some abbots a few times, which had no chance of success just to see what you mentioned above and it was kinda funny. Still, nothing I d want to watch more than once a week lol.

[Qezuzu]

Sounds like the majority of the forum go'ers on Orien want to level desinies in raids and Majority rules so people like me will just have to suck it up and deal with it.

What I'm seeing is that most people concede that Epic Elite raids are not the place to level destinies that are almost entirely useless for your class, since such raids are very demanding and require high performance from all of the members of the group.

However, the game is very easy on Epic Hard and below (except a select few quests/raids), and bad performance or complete wipes can't be blamed on people who used sub-par destinies. Especially things like +2 rounds on hard shroud. That's not bad destinies, that's just bad PUGs. And no, there really isn't anything special about the PUG scene on Orien. It's only marginally younger than other servers; we have hundreds, if not thousands, of very experienced players.

Anyway, no matter what, if you expect something from PUGs you should just say it up front and not assume that they'll magically know what you want from them. "I made a thread on the forums, didn't you see it?" is not an excuse to not properly lead your groups. And if they don't follow your directions when told, they're not going to listen to anything said on the forums (if they even browse the forums), either. This thread is pointless and just asking for stupid drama.

[karl_k0ch]

last i heard dont share out thier ship - fair enuf, they paid for it, and they worked for it.

And even this is wrong. It had been that way a while ago when they were the only guild with the Stormglory Typhoon, but nowadays there are a number of guilds who have access to the ship with the spa, so there is no need to harass exclusively OR members for SHIPPEZ PLZ. I heard even ze germans have it.

[bibliomane]

If you are very concerned about what people are bringing to the raid, post your requirements in your LFM. It is ok to want certain things, but be aware that everyone doesn't want or need the same things you do. Be clear about your expectations.

I completed eh CitW (total pug) before I ever had any destiny 'completed,' and I 3 manned EE End of the Road on my cleric with a Monk & a Wizzie (while in a bad destiny.) I'm enjoy accomplishing several things at a time and don't find the content to be so challanging that I need to be in a 'great' destiny. If you are running eToD, nHox, or hVoN, I would not join if expected to swap destinies. I bring plenty to the table without them and I'd rather have fun while racking up another completion than run it yet again for stuff I don't need/already have while getting no useful XP.

[karl_k0ch]

It seems like this thread has created some awareness at least: Today, I saw several epic raid lfms which included something like "main destiny or comparable". None of these was hosted by OR.
I can't say that including this is a bad thing.

[ZeebaNeighba]

Personally I see the destinies as a P2W tax for getting to level 20...so I understand when people don't have them all

Also, at lv20-24, farming Rusted Blades, Impossible Demands, etc is not a smart option. And then raids like eVoN do have great xp in comparison.

[trog_star]

night before last i was in an Enorm CitW with (all welcome).
aside from a couple of near wipes (totally due to lag) the run was smooth as silk.

someone highly unexpected for such a lowly pug joined us for completion too (we were dealing with portal keepers at the time).

on a side note, arties make excellent protection against lag wipes. being out of melee agro range when the server decided we needed a 2 min pause saved us twice.

[Hobgoblin]

People on your server are sure defensive!

Something tells me that Carpone isn't talking about epic normal Chronoscope. I don't think we're talking about shaving a few seconds off of a Hard Shroud, right?

As a raid leader, I really hate having to ask the Magister Monk if he might want to get his HP above 500 for epic elite Velah. Everyone acts like you're a huge jerk. There aren't many places where hit points truly matters, but I have had several EE VoN6 failures because I was too nice to tell people to meet baseline requirements.

You could also split the difference. It is possible to still get XP in a destiny, but be able to contribute fully. I tend to get "strong" destinies to level 4, and come back to them when I want to run a certain raid. Epic Elite Velah is a perfect example, because it's just hard to stay alive if you don't have a certain number of hit points (maybe 700 or more). It's not a bad idea for squishier melees to use Unyielding Sentinel, Legendary Dreadnought, or Fury of the Wild for a little extra padding. The same is true for many casters, even if it's not their main destiny. I try to pick a destiny that is sensible for the difficulty of the content, to make sure I'm doing my part.
That's a raid that is not extremely challenging, but can become chaotic if it turns out you brought 7 people instead of 12.

This is from running with rockna. I joined an ee von 5 and 6 on my paladin. I was in gmof at the time. What I asked was, "Hey, do you need/want me to switch to sentinal?" The answer was (i think because i didn't know rockna,) "yes, please." So I switched. How hard is that?

hob