Create a feat to allow Dex mod to add to damage

[Cyiwin]

Dex took a hit recently. Its addition to AC isn't as important. It's not as hard to hit things anymore making weapon finesse less important. Make weapon finesse a prereq for another feat which adds Dex mod to damage. Only works with melee finesse-able weapons.

[Mastikator]

IMO Precision should do that (and as you say, only with Weapon Finesse and on finesse-able weapons).

[FestusHood]

I like the idea, in general. My only problem with it is that there are a number of weapons in the game that allow dex to damage, and it would make them pretty much worthless.

I'd support a feat like this for bows. Would go a little toward solving the whole ranged being gimped problem.

[Munkenmo]

I like the idea, in general. My only problem with it is that there are a number of weapons in the game that allow dex to damage, and it would make them pretty much worthless.

There are plenty of items in the game with mods like

keen
impact
mobility
precision

these items are all great for people who can't fit the feat, and for those who don't there are more choices.

[azrael4h]

/not signed, on the premise that most classes are already feat starved as it is, and adding another feat on top of Weapon Finesse that DEX builds would be forced into getting to be competitive would unfairly tax those builds much more. They already spend a feat just to be a DEX build, or be forced into a restricted list of an already restrictive weapon set.

Add it to Weapon Finesse and be done with it. This should have been done long ago.

[Merlin-ator]

/not signed, on the premise that most classes are already feat starved as it is, and adding another feat on top of Weapon Finesse that DEX builds would be forced into getting to be competitive would unfairly tax those builds much more. They already spend a feat just to be a DEX build, or be forced into a restricted list of an already restrictive weapon set.

Add it to Weapon Finesse and be done with it. This should have been done long ago.

Dump Finesse. My 12-base STR, no tomes L13 Rogue swapped it out and I never looked back. I am wearing a +4 STR ring, so a 16 STR level 13 rogue can reliably hit everything in its level range, even when dual-wielding bastard swords (no, I didn't take Oversized TWF). I took insightful reflexes too. DEX is now useless to everyone who isn't using it as a feat prerequisite.

I can also get an 8-base 20 STR Wizard (+3 STR tome and PDK helm/gloves) to reliably hit EVERYTHING in epics, though I haven't tried dual-wielding bastard swords yet.

[soulaeon]

Not signed.
Dexterity represents a character's agility and athletic ability. One can have no significant muscle mass and have a very high dexterity. So it would not make sense to include this as a true damage modifier.
If anything, I could see intellect adding to ranged damage because it can represent a character's tactical ability, so a smart character would know how to land a critical blow more often than a less intelligent character.

[CheeseMilk]

One can have no significant muscle mass and have a very high dexterity

Me and him disagree.

[soulaeon]

Hello, he has muscles. He's not emaciated if you cant tell lol.

[t0r012]

Me and him disagree.

Bruce was a very athletic guy , but he was in no sense of the word large.

Think bodybuilder or a guy like LLcoolJ. He is a big dude and if you watch him box he is a good fighter but watch him run or try and do something dexterous , it just isn't there.

All of this is moot anyway, real life /reality has nothing to do with a fantasy game mechanics.

[azrael4h]

Dump Finesse. My 12-base STR, no tomes L13 Rogue swapped it out and I never looked back. I am wearing a +4 STR ring, so a 16 STR level 13 rogue can reliably hit everything in its level range, even when dual-wielding bastard swords (no, I didn't take Oversized TWF). I took insightful reflexes too. DEX is now useless to everyone who isn't using it as a feat prerequisite.

I can also get an 8-base 20 STR Wizard (+3 STR tome and PDK helm/gloves) to reliably hit EVERYTHING in epics, though I haven't tried dual-wielding bastard swords yet.

I don't have a DEX build. Unless you count my arty, who has enough DEX to qualify for IPS. My Rogue is a STR-based build, old design, but still works well.

I agree that to-hit, well, took a hit, but that's neither here nor there. Adding more feats for a more feat-starved style that still is going to be a few points behind STR builds just based on the lack of available DEX buffs doesn't sit well with me. Add DEX to damage to Weapon Finesse, and as far as any DEX to damage weapons go, give them something to compensate. Heartseeker looks good.

[CheeseMilk]

Large muscles does not equate to strength.

[Jay203]

Large muscles does not equate to strength.

i think you may have confused muscles with lobs of fat o-o

[Cyiwin]

Add DEX to damage to Weapon Finesse, and as far as any DEX to damage weapons go, give them something to compensate. Heartseeker looks good.

Believe me I feel your pain on the feat starvation thing, but Dex comes out of the box with more benefits than strength.

Dexterity Bonus adds to:

• Reflex save, especially nice for evasion builds
• Ranged attack
• Armor Class, yeah I know...
• 5 Skills

Strength bonus adds to:

• Melee attck
• Damage to melee, thrown and rangers with bows.
• 2 Skills

If we spent two feats and added melee attack and damage to Dexterity, Dex builds would come out ahead of Str builds in these areas:

• Reflex save bonus
• Ranged attack bonus
• Armor class bonus
• 3 more Skills

Granted strength still has the bonus of adding attack and damage to non-finesseable weapons but IMO it's worth two feats.

One feat or two, I think we need it to make dex a viable alternative to generic strength builds.

[masterzzan]

the feat is already out there. from an unofficial source book tho
called :

Extra Finesse

from:7th Sea: Swashbuckling Adventures (AEG) page 133
Prerequisites:Weapon Finesse

*Fighters may take this feat as one of their bonus feats.*
You can use your DEX bonus instead of your STR bonus for
damage inflicted using a weapon you can use Weapon Finesse with.
(was implanted during the 3.0 update as the 3.5 finesse is for all the weapons you can use it with .not just one.)

[blerkington]

Hi,

I agree with Cyiwin.

Dex already drives a considerable number of important numbers in this game, and adding melee and/or ranged damage to that is too much in my opinion.

Not signed, even though my main would benefit immensely from the change.

Thanks

[shadereaper33]

keep in mind, the "leaked" enhancement info that showed up on lamma land a month or so ago had assassins getting dex to damage with daggers and kukris as part of their PrE, so it is possible that the dev's may include a similar mechanic in other trees as well.

[droid327]

I think that many arguably dex-based weapons already, as has been said, have dex as their to-hit stat (eg some named rapiers). I wouldnt mind seeing a handful of melee weapons get this across-the-board, if only to improve some underutilized weapons for those that want a dex-based build. Dagger comes to mind...rapier would, except thats hardly "underutilized" with its big crit range.

I think its more important, though, for ranged weapons...Bow Strength is there for str-based ranged builds, but if you're not a Ranger-archetype hybrid melee/ranged char, str is not useful beyond that. Arties and Engie Rogues can add their INT to xbow attacks, without using a feat, even...I dont see why other ranged classes couldnt similarly add their dex to bow attacks, since dex is their to-hit mod anyway.

[byzantinebob]

It does not make any sense to have DEX improve damage. It would make more sense to have it somehow increase crit range, since a more agile and tactical fighter would be able to target weak spots better. Think of a fencer. He won't hit you very hard, but can hit your jugular better than anyone. The problem with this is that the numbers would have to someone work out to not make it overpowered.

[droid327]

It does not make any sense to have DEX improve damage. It would make more sense to have it somehow increase crit range, since a more agile and tactical fighter would be able to target weak spots better. Think of a fencer. He won't hit you very hard, but can hit your jugular better than anyone. The problem with this is that the numbers would have to someone work out to not make it overpowered.

I am a fencer

Dex (in the real world sense) doesnt just give you better point control or let you do more intricate maneuvers, but it also lets you keep your body and blade at optimal angles, idealize your footwork, etc., to maximize leverage and balance and thrust. A well-wielded blade will be able to generate more physical power behind it (not just accuracy) than a flailing one. It also means your beats and parries will open up slightly bigger targets when you open them. And that could mean and extra inch or two of penetration against your opponent's defenses.

Of course, it doesnt take much physical power to begin with, but that extra fraction of advantage could mean the difference between a surficial flesh wound and a deep, serious puncture...even if you're not talking about hitting any vital components of your target.