Three Ring Circus - Staff-wielding Acrobat II Builds

[unbongwah]

The humble quarterstaff has been attracting DDO players for years, despite - or perhaps because - of its lousy base damage and crit profile. Purely in DPS terms, there's little reason to choose a staff...except, maybe, that nothing says "you got your @$$ kicked by a master!" quite like beating the stuffing outta someone with a broom handle.

This thread will contain my current staff builds, aimed at everyone from the F2P newbie to the TR junkie (I hope). They all start from the same fundamental concepts, though:

• Rogue 13 / Acrobat II is the base, which provides 7D6+12 sneak dmg (another +3D6 on builds with Improved Sneak Atk epic feat), +15% atk speed w/staves, +10% run speed, knockdown immunity, adds DEX modifier to sneak atk dmg, Opportunist, Imp Evasion, Imp Uncanny Dodge, Haste Boost IV, and of course a whole lotta skill pts.
• Sneak atks with proc on Cleave atks but not with glancing blows, so all of them are built to take Cleave & Great Cleave; for those with Epic Destinies, Lay Waste & Momentum Swing are definitely meant to be added. Overwhelming Critical is also added, for obvious reasons.
• Improved Feint acts as an AoE Bluff on targets in front of you; thus the idea is to use Imp Feint, then atk w/your Cleaves while they're vulnerable for mondo sneak atks. Imp Feint is on a separate timer from Bluff/Diplo/Intim, so you can use Imp Feint, then use one of those skills immediately if need be. The only downside to IF is there is a delay between activating the ability and the Bluff effect procing; atk too soon and you cancel the feint, while if you wait too long, the effect wears off before you've finished all of your Cleaves. So once you have IF, the first thing you have to do to disable auto-atk and learn how to get the timing right.

The main difference between each build is what I do with the remaining 7 levels, plus what other feats I take, which I'll go over in each build.


Beginner's Class (dwarf rog 13 / ftr 6 / barb 1)


This is the 28-pt F2P option, with fairly modest tome requirements. Ftr 6 adds 4 feats, +2 STR, HPs, and Kensai I; the barb splash add +1 Power Atk enh for a bit more DPS, a single use of Rage, and +10% run speed which stacks w/Acro II +10% run speed for zerger in us all.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Female
(6 Fighter \ 1 Barbarian \ 13 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 14
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    25
Dexterity            12                    18
Constitution         18                    18
Intelligence         12                    13
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    25
Bluff                 2                    22
Concentration         4                     5
Diplomacy             2                    22
Disable Device        5                    24
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  1                     4
Intimidate           -2                    -1
Jump                  3                    12
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         1                     4
Open Lock             5                    16
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                5                    26
Spot                  3                    11
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                2                    11
Use Magic Device      2                    21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Kensei Quarterstaff Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Feint


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

Epic feats: Overwhelming Critical (req's +2 STR tome) and epic Toughness (req's +3 CON tome)

Feat options: you could drop Stunning Blow, Imp Sunder, and epic Toughness for the THF chain; it depends on whether you favor tactics + extra HPs vs. raw DPS. If you can take the +1 INT tome sooner, that would enable you to move up CE+Imp Feint, probably by delaying WF+WS:Blunt (and Kensai I).

F2P race options: human would add an extra feat (e.g. Imp Trip), but you wouldn't be able to get epic Toughness, so that would have to be replaced. You could try to add Versatility or heal amp, but as you can see APs are very tight already. You can't afford any racial enhs without dropping something useful, like Haste Boost IV or W&S Mastery; so which race you go with is more about base bonuses.

Skills: the key skills are Bluff and UMD, but since she has so many skill pts, I maxed out trap skills as well, because why not? I also maxed out Diplomacy, because I like having a backup when IF fails. Extra pts were spread between Balance, Spot, and Open Lock; other options include Haggle, stealth, maybe even Intim if you want to try a novel hate-tank who draws aggro, then uses IF to get their sneak atks in.

Coming up: the HOrcrobat.

[unbongwah]

Intermediate Class (HO rog 13 / monk 6 / druid 1)


This build requires 32-pt builds, half-orcs, monk, and druid to be unlocked, so it's not for cheapskates. It also req's a few tomes, though nothing too egregious: at least +1 INT for CE+Imp Feint, a +2 STR for Overwhelming Crit, and a +3 DEX for Imp Sneak Atk (but not until lvl 24).

My Horcrobat replaces ftr with monk; I lose a feat and ftr STR enhs, but I gain 2nd-tier Wind Stance (+5% doublestrike), Ninja I (+1D6 SA, Shadow Fade), and at least +9% Dodge (monk 6 base + Dodge feat). It also switches the barb splash (which is incompatible with monk) for druid, which is the "secret sauce" in this build; it adds two lvl 1 spell slots for Ram's Might (+2 bonus to STR & dmg) and Shillelagh (+1[W] to wooden staves) which is a nice boost to DPS. The only drawback to Shillelagh is some of the best staves in the game, like Sireth, aren't wood, so the spell has no effect on them.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Orc Female
(6 Monk \ 13 Rogue \ 1 Druid) 
Hit Points: 266
Spell Points: 210 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 20
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    25
Dexterity            16                    24
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    26
Bluff                 2                    21
Concentration         2                    26
Diplomacy            -2                    21
Disable Device        5                    25
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     9
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  8                    17
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     9
Open Lock             7                    18
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                    25
Spot                  3                    13
Swim                  4                     7
Tumble                7                    17
Use Magic Device      2                    21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Diplomacy (+5)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Search (+3)


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Search (+3)


Level 8 (Druid)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+10)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Feint


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Search (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Druid Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery III

Epic feats: Overwhelming Critical (STR base 18 + 3 lvl-ups + 2 tome) and Imp Sneak Atk (DEX base 16 + 2 lvl-ups + 3 tome)

This time I did sacrifice some rog enhs (like W&S Mastery IV) to squeeze in all the HO DPS-boosting enhs I could. My view is 32-pt HOs have the easiest time (barely) hitting all the stat pre-reqs for this build with the minimum of tomes - and w/out just dumping CON, of course.

This is the build I've actually leveled to 13 and had a lot of fun with so far. If I could just stop bouncing between alts long enough to keep leveling her...

[unbongwah]

Reserved for TR build(s)

[unbongwah]

Reserved just in case

[hethyba]

Thanks for posting these. I had a monk/rogue acrobat a year or two ago that I got to level 15ish before I took a long break from the game and then restarted on a different server. I'm thinking of making another acrobat on my new server, because I think that the q-staff animations are just plain cool, but a different build this time, and thinking of taking some inspiration from both your listed builds.

[Failedlegend]

Hey Unbongwah I remember chatting about improved feint with you in my AcroMonk build thread and at that time you weren't really sure if IF was still bugged or not, I'm guessing you've confirmed its been fixed now eh?

Just want to confirm before I drop Improved trip for it.

[unbongwah]

Yeah, IF got unbugged w/U15, IIRC. There's an annoying delay when you use it before the Bluff effect procs, but AFAICT it worked fine.

Caveat: haven't touched my Horcrobat since U16 came out, so no clue if they might've re-bugged it.

[Asanarama]

Do you need to do anything to get those chr-6 characters to land their dipblufeints? Enhancements? Equipment? If equipment, since slots are limited, are you changing equipment before and after every dipblufeint? I know it’s just a matter of 3 skill points from a chr6 to, say, a chr12, but that can make a difference: ntr = need to roll, % = chance of success

  chr 06  |  chr 12  | diffe-
---------------------| rence
ntr|  %   | ntr|  %  |-------
01 | 100% | 01 | 100%| 00%
02 | 095% | 01 | 100%| 05%
03 | 090% | 01 | 100%| 10%
04 | 085% | 01 | 100%| 15%
05 | 080% | 02 | 095%| 15%
06 | 075% | 03 | 090%| 15%
07 | 070% | 04 | 085%| 15%
08 | 065% | 05 | 080%| 15%
09 | 060% | 06 | 075%| 15%
10 | 055% | 07 | 070%| 15%
11 | 050% | 08 | 065%| 15%
12 | 045% | 09 | 060%| 15%
13 | 040% | 10 | 055%| 15%
14 | 035% | 11 | 050%| 15%
15 | 030% | 12 | 045%| 15%
16 | 025% | 13 | 040%| 15%
17 | 020% | 14 | 035%| 15%
18 | 015% | 15 | 030%| 15%
19 | 010% | 16 | 025%| 15%
20 | 005% | 17 | 020%| 15%
21 | 000% | 18 | 015%| 15%
22 | 000% | 19 | 010%| 10%
23 | 000% | 20 | 005%| 05%

I’m not sure if 1 and 20 are special cases for these skill checks.

[unbongwah]

Ultimately my plan is to equip my Horcrobat w/Golden Guile. Earlier on I used Raven's Eye (+7 Bluff among other bonuses) + Vulkoor's Cunning (-10% threat). I think @ lvl 13 I'm just using a random lootgen Bluff item; I've also got a staff w/Deception if I really need it.

[Failedlegend]

wow that's really nice....now i have to figure out how to fit both Bluff (for IF) and Diplomacy (for actual use) in so many skills point yet still not enough :P

[Himkano]

I'm not super familiar with rogue, since I only ever splashed it for evasion, but is this class solo friendly? At a glance, it looks like no, because it looks like a fair amount of the damage is from sneak attack, but maybe I am miss-reading something, or maybe rogues can get sneak attacks solo somehow (after the initial attack of course)

[Mercureal]

It would be reasonably soloable for a somewhat experienced player. You'd need to have some amount of damage avoidance and UMD-boosting items to help with your self healing (cure wands, heal scrolls).

There are several ways for solo Rogues to get sneak attacks:

- use of the bluff skill: this is only single-target and has an animation that briefly interrupts attacks
- use of a deception item: gives you a window of around 2 seconds for sneak attacks when it procs; has a low proc rate and mostly comes on weapons, taking up the suffix spot
- use of an improved deception item: like deception, but a much better proc rate; comes on higher level items (lowest I know of is Ml 14-15); Golden Guile is one of these, it's a necklace in the Lords of Dust quest
- use of the diplomacy skill: small area effect, I believe it only works if there is someone/thing else in the area for the mobs to attack
- Improved Feint feat: this is described in the OP. I've never used it, but I've seen a few builds on the forums that use it in conjuction with Cleave
- Radiance weapon: blinds enemy on a critical hit, no save, lasts for 3-5 seconds, approximately. It only comes on Green Steel weapons, ML 20+ random loot weapons, and possibly a few named weapons

If you combine a few of these things, you can get lots of sneak attacks even when solo.

[unbongwah]

wow that's really nice....now i have to figure out how to fit both Bluff (for IF) and Diplomacy (for actual use) in so many skills point yet still not enough :P

Hey, I was able to max out Bluff, Concentration, Diplo, Search, Disable, and UMD, with some to spare for Spot & Open Lock, while still meeting the stat pre-reqs for OC & ISA, so it can be done!

[Aganthor]

Is there a reason why you don't take Precision?

[unbongwah]

Is there a reason why you don't take Precision?

Feat shortage and expectation I would go LD with this build and sit in PA mode for LW/MS/GC/CL atk chain (LW & MS only work w/PA). But I could drop Imp Sunder for Precision if I find I need the extra Fortification reduction for, say, boss fights. I could also swap Dodge for Precision and drop Ninja Spy, but I like having Shadow Fade going almost constantly.

[Failedlegend]

Feat shortage and expectation I would go LD with this build and sit in PA mode for LW/MS/GC/CL atk chain (LW & MS only work w/PA). But I could drop Imp Sunder for Precision if I find I need the extra Fortification reduction for, say, boss fights. I could also swap Dodge for Precision and drop Ninja Spy, but I like having Shadow Fade going almost constantly.

I'd say take precision for 1-20 when it will allow for more SA damage than swap it for another feat if you don't find yourself using it for Epic very often.

[Asanarama]

The only downside to IF is there is a delay between activating the ability and the Bluff effect procing; atk too soon and you cancel the feint, while if you wait too long, the effect wears off before you've finished all of your Cleaves. So once you have IF, the first thing you have to do to disable auto-atk and learn how to get the timing right.

How does one determine what the correct timing is? Wait for Bluff/Feint icons to pop up over their heads? Check the combat log and if you don’t see sneak attacks it means you were either early or late? I don't consider this a trivial question because nothing involving timing is trivial when it comes to internet-based gaming. For example, when it comes to traps, the difference between what I see on my screen and what is actually happening on the server varies enough that timing my way through them is unreasonably dependent on luck.

Do you mean that once one learns the correct timing one can turn autoattack back on? I'm asking both to know and because knowing might help me understand the correct timing.

Any idea if Shifting Rake works with IF? It sounds like it’s supposed to, but given IF’s track record I wouldn’t want to assume: “Whenever you bluff an enemy, or use an ability that triggers a bluff check, that enemy takes a -2 penalty to AC.” For 2, 3, and 4 AP one can upgrade the debuff to 4, 6, and 8 AC. I’m not saying it’s phenomenal, but if it works with IF it might be worthy of consideration.

[unbongwah]

How does one determine what the correct timing is? Wait for Bluff/Feint icons to pop up over their heads? Check the combat log and if you don’t see sneak attacks it means you were either early or late?

When any of the threat skills proc, you'll see an icon appear over the target's head; in the case of Bluff & IF, the target should also turn around briefly. That's when you know it's your moment to strike!

Do you mean that once one learns the correct timing one can turn autoattack back on?

AFAICT, leaving auto-atk on always interrupts IF, unless you wait until after it procs to select a target. But since the goal here is to use Cleave atks anyway which are activated abilities, I find it easier just to leave auto-atk off when I'm trying to spam IF.

Any idea if Shifting Rake works with IF?

...I have no idea, but it would be pretty cool if it did! Though I probably wouldn't use it on a stick build; instead I'm thinking it could be a nifty trick for a wolf build w/Cleave & IF, though that's pretty expensive feat-wise.

[Failedlegend]

I don't like using auto-attack there's times when you don't want to attack and its more satisfying to furiously click the enemies to death :P

[whereispowderedsilve]

I rolled up the horcobat couple days ago super fun! But I am worried about IF WAI?

Can anyone confirm before I get this 1st life vet status 2 toon up to the higher levels that IF is WAI? Please & tyvm!

This persons post here is very concerning:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=402128

A visit to Fred and I swapped out Precision today on my stick fighter for Imp. Feint feat. Experimenting with the ability it seems to only trigger when I am fighting unarmed or with handwraps.

Major game bummer. Its nice to see the bluff icon go off on top of a horde of mobs. I just want to be able to finish them all off with a sneak attack great cleave.

Certainly not wai?

Has it been this way a long time? Is there a point in keeping the feat in hopes of a fix?

Did I waste my free feat swap?

Cheers Good luck/loots!