Need Advice: Melee Ranger

[Veskitt]

Hi there,

I have recently returned to DDO and gone VIP again, and would like advice in building a pure dual-wield Khopesh Human Ranger, for a 32pt build. With emphasis on end-game.

I'd like him to be able solo reasonably well, and be flexible when fighting different enemy types if possible.

Could you also tell me what kind of ranger spells I could use to help my groups, if any. It's been a long time.

I previously had a lvl 16 Ranger/Monk/Rogue that was a melee trapper, but since newer higher end-game rogues are better at trapping the end-game content, the rogue splash seems a bit useless for the build, and the Monk splash is equally not so useful anymore. It would cost me too many turbine points (and $) to simply remove the two classes.
Not to mention I've forgotten 90% of the game, so starting fresh is probably the best option for me. I have WAY too much free-time anyway, I'll get there quickly.

So far, I'm thinking of going for the following stats as a 32pt build.
STR: 17
DEX: 14
CON: 16
INT: 8
WIS: 11
CHA: 8

Thanks

[karl_k0ch]

Welcome back.

Generally speaking, a pure ranger does not offer too much for a melee-focused build, compared to the alternatives since the last few levels grant a capstone which helps with ranged damage, and only one additional tier of favored enemies.
Shooting from the hip, I'd say that 15 Ranger is a pretty nice spot since you'll get 4 favored enemies, and two level 15 spells (FoM and CSW). Also, CSW caps at caster level 15, which offers a good self-healing option.
The remaining 5 levels can be filled with other classes which give you some advantages: Feats are always nice, so 1,2 or 3 Monk and/or 1, 2, or 4 Fighter are interesting. Also, Rogue adds UMD as a class skill, and sneak attack damage is a very nice damage boost if you are not soloing and don't have the mob's aggro. If you have access to the Half-Elf race, you could also take the Rogue Dillettante Feat to get +3d6 sneak attack damage (which does not stack with actual rogue extra SA damage). Fighter offers more damage via +Str and Haste boosts, whereas 3 Monk offers Healing Amp.

Re: Trap DCs. Getting a decent search and disable DC is generally not an issue at all for any build with a 1+ Rogue or Arty splash, so don't worry there.

Re: Stats. 8 Wis is the usually accepted starting score for Paladins and Rangers, unless you are using some abilities which actually need Wis.

Amongst actual splits which I'd consider are Half-Elf 15 Ran/4 Fgt/1 Mnk and 15 Ran/2 Fgt/3 Mnk, 15 Ran/4 Fgt/1 Rog, as well as Human 15 Ran/4 Rog/1 Fgt (or Monk), or 15 Ran/3 Rog/2 Fgt (or Monk) and 15 Ran/2 Rog/3 Monk. These are only the ones with 15 Ran; there are also other interesting options along the lines of 18/1/1 (Tempest III is still some dps boots), and 12/7/1.

[unbongwah]

A few general comments:

• You don't go ranger to be a max-melee-DPS build; you go rgr because you want a versatile, self-sufficient toon who happens to have solid DPS as well.
• Tempest II is seen as the "sweet spot" for rgr builds these days, though I think there's still some merit to Tempest III (lvl 4 spells, extra FE, bit more DPS, higher PRR). I have a couple of Tempest II builds I keep meaning to post (like rgr 12 / rog 8 and rgr 12 / barb 6 / rog 2).
• Rogue splash isn't just about trap skills; it's also about UMD, sneak atk dmg, Wand & Scroll Mastery, and Uncanny Dodge (depending on how many lvls you take). Trap skills are just a perk.
• Likewise, monk-splashed toons saw their defenses get nerfed with U14 (AC counts for less while PRR is important and is partially based on your armor type); but you still get extra feats, handwrap usage, and higher saves, so I certainly wouldn't say they're useless.

As to your toon, if you're not going monk splash and don't care about skills, I agree you should start 18 / 14 / 16 / 8 / 8 / 8.

[Inouk]

There are trade offs for splashing, but as a pure melee the trade offs are easier especially toward the cap-end. For losing 1 favored enemy (and corresponding rank of FE damage) you could get 2 feats from fighter. For losing tempest III also you could get another fighter feat and weapon specialization. For losing another favored enemy you get another fighter feat and kensei I. You lose a spell or 2 with each of these options as well. I have a H-Orc ranger/ftr build in progress currently (TR) and I'm pretty happy with him. He'll be 12 ranger 8 ftr when done. I made the choice to trade some spells for some damage, which is not an easy choice but I was trying to lose as little DPS as possible while still getting some self reliance, and that's the compromise I arrived at.

Personally I maxed str. Do you have tomes?

As far as spells (assuming you stay pure or close to) Freedom of Movement and Barkskin will be the only ones people will ask for, but in many groups you'll be able to backup heal (not that anyone will notice, but you may save the group from wiping by saving the cleric some SP between fights).

[Grailhawk]

18 Ranger/1 Rogue/1 Fighter or Monk is still a better melee Ranger then 20 Ranger (the Enh pass may change this but who knows when that will be). Fighter is better then Monk but the real reason for the splash is the extra feat that both provide.

Best race is Human or Half-elf, its the healing amp that makes them the best choices being able to heal for 250+ on a CSW is what you're after if your on a Ranger if not you might as well just a play a Fighter and get the better DPS that that brings.

For a melee Ranger Stats are:
STR 16+ this is your main stat max it every chance you get.
CON 14+
DEX 12+
CHA Dump Stat

If you have a Rogue level and want to use Rogue skills you will want to not dump INT, with Tomes you will want the final value to be 14 but you could make do with a final value of 12. Six Points for Search, Spot, Disable, UMD. Points seven and eight are used to get some amount of Jump and Balance.

If you have the Monk splash and plan to use robes you will want a min of 14 WIS.

Feat are:
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Toughness
Exotic Weapon Prof:Khopesh
Improved Critical
Power Attack
Maximize
Quicken

Human Bonus Feat has options Stunning blow is probably best but you will need gear to make that work +10 Stunning weapon (T2+ Alchemical Air) and +5 Exceptional Combat Mastery (Dun'Robar Ring is best but if you dont have a Ravagers set you can use the Cannith Belt till you do). If aiming for that is too difficult at your current wealth level, I would say go Helf with Rogue dilettante for the extra sneak attack.

Fury of the Wild is the epic destiny you want.

Balizarde, Pinion, and Epic Claw set are your main priority for gear you want them and you wanted them yesterday!
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Balizar...or_of_the_King
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Pinion,_Cloud-piercer
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Gloves_of_the_Claw
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Bracers_of_the_Claw

Those are the current defining items on a Ranger once you have them you have a lot more wiggle room.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Rangers get almost all of the two weapon fighting feats and almost all of the ranged feats for free; and should use them both.

That's my advice.

[Veskitt]

Well, if I multi-class. What is the best option for 18/1/1 as I would like to keep 18 levels of ranger, so I still get the lvl 4 ranger spells.

Ranger/Rogue/Fighter? (Having UMD and a bonus Feat would be cool, more so if I was human)

And are you guys saying I can simply have 8 Wisdom starting stat, and use tome/items to reach high enough Wisdom to cast all my ranger spells anyway?

If so, what do I put my extra stats on? Do I go 18/14/16/8/8/8? Or do I go 18/12/16/10/8/8 so I have a bit more INT for skills such as UMD?

[karl_k0ch]

And are you guys saying I can simply have 8 Wisdom starting stat, and use tome/items to reach high enough Wisdom to cast all my ranger spells anyway?

Exactly. When casting spells, the game looks at your current Wis score, modified by any kind of bonuses.

[Rogoth]

Hi Veskitt, welcome back.

I'm a newish, casual player. The guys / girls above will know a lot more about the game than me but I have played the 18/1/1 ranger/rogue/ftr tempest trapmonkey from unbongwah's sig to 23; and had a lot of fun with it. It's a bit a swiss army knife. Loads of tools; can have a reasonable go a lots of things; not top of the range in any but near enough for me. It has taught me a lot about builds and playing the game. I went with the dwarf and d-axes as this was a first toon and a few more hp as a buffer for my clumsy playing and cheap(er) weapons. The only change I have made is to swtich OTWF for the defensive TWF feaet (?name?) since the AC update. The to hit penality doesn't seem to be a problem and extra PRR seems to help; whilst still qualifying for tempest III.

Your mentioned traps at endgame. Did you mean epic elite? I haven't tried trapping that, but have done fine with anything up to and including epic hard so far. I am not a great gear grinder and have nothing flashy for trapping that isn't easy to find or buy from the AH.

As for spells - you'll have more slots than you now what to do with if you go for this mix and they can changed at any tavern or after rest. I just tried them all with time to find a mix that suited me. The wis dump is not a problem. At the worst a wand or clicky of owls' will allow you cast when you first get spells after that wis gear will be enough. Tomes are nice but not necessary for this build at all (one of the reasons I went with it in the first place).

Your bigest headache on a TWF UMD toon will probably be the same as mine - too many choices for stuff to carry and only so much backspace space

Rogoth

[JOTMON]

The way I see it Rangers have fallen to the bottom of the list as playable classes go.

They are still playable, but not the top choices as playable classes go.

No one cares about barkskin anymore there are random drop items that give better permanent barkskin than any ranger spell can give. AC is not as usefull as dodge or PRR.

The enhancement pass coming at some time in the future may resolve some of the issues.

Rogue splash is still viable, Gear and buffs will make up any shortfalls.

Also have the Artificer and Druid classes that are fun to play.

Consider TR'ing this will get you to a 34 point build and re-introduce yourself to the game and all the new low level content.

[silinteresting]

solo ranger builds are cool if your not into min/max builds. personaly i like the idea of 11 ranger(gtwf) 7 bard(displacement) 2 fighter(xtra feats). a fun build with versatiity oooozing from it

your friend sil

[Veskitt]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I'm going to go 18/1/1 Ranger/Rogue/Fighter

One question tho? In which order do I pick classes at which levels? I noticed if I start with Rogue, I cant select my first feat as Dodge for some reason. I don't want to waste any feats.

[JOTMON]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I'm going to go 18/1/1 Ranger/Rogue/Fighter

One question tho? In which order do I pick classes at which levels? I noticed if I start with Rogue, I cant select my first feat as Dodge for some reason. I don't want to waste any feats.

I would..
Allways Rogue first level - maximum skill point load distribution and unlocks rogue skills
Ranger 2-7ish (First Ranger Pestige)
Fighter around 8
rest ranger

I am sure someone has a build link around somewhere on the forum.

[karl_k0ch]

I am sure someone has a build link around somewhere on the forum.

Yes, for instance unbongwah features a 'Tempest Trapmonkey' build in his signature. If you poke him nicely, he might update it for a post U14-version.

[Rogoth]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I'm going to go 18/1/1 Ranger/Rogue/Fighter

One question tho? In which order do I pick classes at which levels? I noticed if I start with Rogue, I cant select my first feat as Dodge for some reason. I don't want to waste any feats.

unbongwah's build still seems relevent. Dodge as a feat has a min dex of 13+ to take I think. Is that the reason why you can't select this?

I'm also hoping he may look at it again post U14. I took maximize as the last heroic feat; as I noted above I changed OTWF for two weapon blocking, once I didn't need the to hit and had a tome for the pre req, to increase the PRR a bit. The two epic feats are open to debate.

[Hobgoblin]

I would..
Allways Rogue first level - maximum skill point load distribution and unlocks rogue skills
Ranger 2-7ish (First Ranger Pestige)
Fighter around 8
rest ranger

I am sure someone has a build link around somewhere on the forum.

while this is good advice - i would wait for level 9 ranger to take the fighter level. gets you evasion.

while in my opinion, evasion is never a reason to pick a class, it is a nice perk, and level 10 is when things start to get hairy.

hob

[Veskitt]

Thanks for the help everyone. In the future I shall turn this into a help guide for anyone wanting to follow my path, instead of being yet another over-armoured brute.

I'll quote as much advice as possible, turn this into a really solid build guide for those few who refuse to give-in to elitist scum who say you CAN'T do it.

As always: Play how YOU wan't to play. As long as you have a well-informed plan, no build is ****. Period. It comes down to the player, and that's how I intend to do it.

[azrael4h]

As far as traps go, that's more on gear and buffs than class. I had an 18/1/1 Ranger well before U14, and she was handling epic traps fine.

Post U14, I have only a level 10 18/1/1, which is more of a flavor build than a full out monster. Elf Scimitar build, with a level of Barbarian for the run speed bonus. Still, she handles elite at-level traps without issue, and even ran an elite two levels under and did fairly well, given her lack of gear.

[Kinerd]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I'm going to go 18/1/1 Ranger/Rogue/Fighter

One question tho? In which order do I pick classes at which levels? I noticed if I start with Rogue, I cant select my first feat as Dodge for some reason. I don't want to waste any feats.

Rogues don't get full BAB, so going rogue 1 can muddle up your feat progression a bit. It shouldn't be a problem, though: sooner or later everyone takes Toughness. (In this case, however, it's due to not having 13 Dex yet.)

The other thing is that you don't have 8 skills you really want to spend on, so a lot of those 1st level rogue skill points end up going towards things you don't really want. With these two points in mind, I would encourage you not to take rogue first. Get BAB ASAP, put those skill points to better use.