My Mechanic isn't gimped, your Artificer is OP

[HastyPudding]

Title.

I have a rogue mechanic, right now. The character build itself is going to be ranged-only (like 3 rangers lives, some rogue lives, and maybe some monk thrown in +1 damage). I was in a party yesterday and 2 people couldn't grasp the concept of why I wasn't an assassin or artificer. They literally could not wrap their tiny little minds around why I wouldn't find an assassin fun, even after I told them that I didn't find the whole assassin/ninja thing to be a fun way to play.

I'm so sick of people flaying me in-game for having a mechanic and not being a clone inside the rest of the herd. I can't stand it when people say mechanics are gimped. I know it borders on 'flavorism', but it's getting ridiculous. Is it wrong that I enjoy being a full-time trapper with a repeater and evasion? Rogue mechanics work as intended. It's not my fault artificers overshadow the mechanic PrE in almost every single way.

I can't wait to see what they're going to do with the mechanic in the enhancement update.

[Rogann]

Mechanic rogues are a flavour build for sure. Its not like Arti's cant get evasion either. Most I've seen go with the Shadowdancer ED. It will be great to see what they do with the enhancements. Builds that were gimp can now be viable and fun.

[voodoogroves]

Provided you can avoid aggro, Repeater + lots of sneak damage should still be flipping solid DPS.

[Karavek]

Merge them! Thats what I did after my first mostly pure artee i went with a 12/6/2 mechanic/battle engineer with a splash of fighter for a few easy feats. I went with a drow and went dex/int for my stat focus.

I am fairly certain its impossible to be better at traps then his build is capable of, nor does he lack when it comes to good ranged DPS. the conjure bolts spell I feel is a real must now days for any repeater user, and battle engineer one is a great thing to mix with mechanic two, alot of synergy between them.

THats the real issue, people trying to say one over the other rather then see they are like close kin who are meant to work together.

[HastyPudding]

Mechanic rogues are a flavour build for sure. Its not like Arti's cant get evasion either. Most I've seen go with the Shadowdancer ED. It will be great to see what they do with the enhancements. Builds that were gimp can now be viable and fun.

TWF dagger paladins are gimped.

Pure lvl 20 kama monks are gimped.

A FVS with no self-healing is gimped.

So I say again, mechanics are not gimped. They work as intended. It's not my fault that artificers completely overshadowed them or that the devs keep tweaking the game difficulty to make things absurdly easy for non-trappers.

And people always bring up evasion, saying a 2 rogue or monk splash can give artificers evasion. Nice. A rogue can get improved evasion where an artificer needs to heavily multiclass to get, but will also never have the reflexes to back it up like a pure rogue.

[HastyPudding]

Provided you can avoid aggro, Repeater + lots of sneak damage should still be flipping solid DPS.

People seem to forget sneak attacks, too. A good rogue darts in and deals damage. A smart rogue hangs back a second and waits for somebody to get aggro and then darts in and deals damage so that the mob is dead/almost dead by the time aggro is stolen. This goes for ALL rogues.

Merge them! Thats what I did after my first mostly pure artee i went with a 12/6/2 mechanic/battle engineer with a splash of fighter for a few easy feats. I went with a drow and went dex/int for my stat focus.

I am fairly certain its impossible to be better at traps then his build is capable of, nor does he lack when it comes to good ranged DPS. the conjure bolts spell I feel is a real must now days for any repeater user, and battle engineer one is a great thing to mix with mechanic two, alot of synergy between them.

THats the real issue, people trying to say one over the other rather then see they are like close kin who are meant to work together.

Multiclassing rogue and artificer works, no doubt. But you lose key factors of each class, such as sneak attacks from rogues as well as spells and godly UMD capabilities the artificer has. And a minimal effort can be given to get house D favor for +3 sturdy bolts; they're cheap and a stack of 1000 lasts a long time.

No class or PrE is better at disabling traps/setting up traps/saving against traps than a mechanic. It's what the PrE is made for. Artificers are a close second, but they focus in other areas that a rogue does not, such as spells and UMD and lack the enhancements that rogues can get to back up trapping skills. You can argue that an assassin or well-geared acrobat can do traps just as well, but neither of them will have the saves vs traps or ranged capability (WITH int bonus to damage, you repeater assassins...) that a mechanic has.


Part of the trouble with mechanics is that player-created traps and grenades are next to useless, except in a few fairly rare situations or when soloing. This seriously needs to be changed, and the artificer shouldn't be able to use these if and when it does.

[Hobgoblin]

And people always bring up evasion, saying a 2 rogue or monk splash can give artificers evasion. Nice. A rogue can get improved evasion where an artificer needs to heavily multiclass to get, but will also never have the reflexes to back it up like a pure rogue.

lets see.

go human
go int based.
take insightful reflexes.
???
profit.

dont say that artis cant back up the reflex save.

sides. mechanics have there place.

i got one picked out for ya in my back pack.



hob

[Todkaninchen]

I have a level 20 Arti, a recently TR'd Fighter 1/Rogue 19/Epic 2 Mechanic, another pure rogue mechanic at level 18, and I'm finally trying an Assassin (first life, 32pt build, level 7 built around the DEX weapons like Sky-Pirate's Dagger, and essentially the same DEX/INT build).

I'm seriously considering trading out the feats on my Assassin to make him a mechanic because--even with gear--I die in more traps and blow more boxes if I'm not completely buffed up and I have the highest level gear I can get right now. Having to use a skill boost to find almost every trap is really freaking annoying.

Don't get me completely wrong, I am typically running elites probably 2 levels over mine as part of a group, but it's disconcerting when I've gotten away with that routinely with the mechanics and it's still only about 15% of traps being an issue, but that's 15% that get my party killed. (Maybe I should try to run with more wizards and bards?)

Another thing that's annoying is having to chase things down to knife them and pulling aggro off whoever I'm with enough to get slammed hard. Maybe it will change at higher levels, but I miss the luxury of taking out the casters from range and kiting the rest, if I botch the aggro game.

But, I digress, At the same basic levels, with the right gear, my rogue mechanics are more survivable and lethal than my Arti. Most of which is because I've got--between gear and feats--about 50% reduction in fortification going on and use bows like the Slaver's Hand Crossbow, Doublecross Bow, and deception bows (with Golden Guile, when I can get it) and can't fit all of the same ranged feats on the Arti while still maintaining relevance for the spells.

Also, if I'm not having to deal with DR (i.e. have the right weapon), I still out damage the Arti because I'm able to move more freely, pick the targets I want easier, and I'm not trying to coordinate the rune arm, the dog, where I'm going to put the next tactical detonation or maxed/heightened blade barrier. I'm just running and gunning.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Arti and in some quests where I can take the time and let things like a nice blade barrier and flame turret combo do most of the work for me (usually the turret to draw things through the BB, not so much for killing at high levels), and need to match DR to get best effect, he's got an advantage, but I also tend to loath trapping with him because it's a pain to switch gear and buff for most traps.

My TR--now level 11--which took a week or so to get there post TR is on a second life as a rogue mechanic although I did splash a single level of Arti at level 2. (Yes, I intend to TR shortly after 20 so the loss of the Capstone isn't a huge issue for me.) I did this because I was impatient for repeater proficiency and it's the easy button on dealing with huge number of bolts. I throw 2 casts of conjure bolts when I log on and another every time I see the message I've reloaded and the rest of the blue bar is just adding a +1 to weapons. It's almost a stress-free character where I only have to make sure I cast for bolts, have enough health pots/raise dead scrolls (65% success rate with gear, 75% or so with a skill boost at level 11), and pick which bow I want to use.

In Shroud runs, the only trick for my rogues is getting that narrow distance between the max distance you get sneak attack damage on Harry and the maximum distance his wings beat the **** out of you. For an Arti, it's almost continuously trying to move out of the way, heal, heal the dog (if I'm using it), try to fire the bow, the rune arm, a spell or two, etc.

So, are Arti's powerful?

Yup, but you have to love them a lot and understand trapping, wizard-like spell casting, management of hirelings, be a wiz at managing your inventory, DR reducing spells, buffs, etc. and then hopefully manage to get over all of that to actually do your job before getting smashed like a bug because you're squishy and things hit hard.

Either that or Improved Evasion and Slippery Mind spoiled me.

Still, at least Arti and Rogue Mechanic share the ability to reach out and touch someone. It means I'm not having to sneak attack with Muckbane's every time there's a mix of rusties/oozes and something else because I don't want to try to fight bosses unarmed or with loot I picked up in quest...

[cdbd3rd]

Title.

I have a rogue mechanic, right now. ...

Don't hate on the Arty's just cuz our hand is battery-operated.
All tool users get their turn, in time.

[Gadget2775]

First: play what makes you happy.
Second: Expect people to be childish if you don't fit in.
Third: Ignore them. Your fun is more important than their whining.
Fourth: Use /squelch add <insert name here>
Fifth: Players with a brain won't care. They will however remember if you blew a trap up, spent the entire quest in someone’s pocket, or whine incessantly over voice chat about another players build.

Rule number one is the most important. Just remember, if you're grouping your fun can have an impact on their perceived amount of fun. Their perception colors their fun. (Think Zerlings who die, then scream at blue bars for letting it happen).

[Postumus]

First: play what makes you happy.
Second: Expect people to be childish if you don't fit in.
Third: Ignore them. Your fun is more important than their whining.
Fourth: Use /squelch add <insert name here>
Fifth: Players with a brain won't care. They will however remember if you blew a trap up, spent the entire quest in someone’s pocket, or whine incessantly over voice chat about another players build.

Rule number one is the most important. Just remember, if you're grouping your fun can have an impact on their perceived amount of fun. Their perception colors their fun. (Think Zerlings who die, then scream at blue bars for letting it happen).

Good points.

Having capped both arti's and rogues (I ended up switching from mechanic to assassin at 18 but before they fixed repeaters), I think it is just a case of personal preference - like so many things in this game.


Rogues will do more sneak attack damage, they can UMD insightful damage, have evasion, and can be better overall trappers with the bonuses to trap saves and trap skills; whereas Artis have spells, fusillade, rune arms and can heal themselves through spells. And rune arms can be both really cool AND really annoying.


Actually the mechanic/battle engineer combo seems like a fun way to go if a player doesn't care about higher level arti spells.

[HastyPudding]

Fifth: Players with a brain won't care. They will however remember if you blew a trap up, spent the entire quest in someone’s pocket, or whine incessantly over voice chat about another players build.

I never blew a trap, or died to a trap, or failed to search for a trap, or spent more than a minute in somebody's backpack (I blamed the barbarian who decided he was a tank and lured half a quest before dying and dumped it all on me).

My issue with mechanic is the PrE needs to be updated.

- Smite construct only works with a melee weapon. Seriously? A PrE based on ranged dps and traps needs a melee weapon to use one of its abilities? This needs to be changed to something along the lines of having better damage. attack, saves vs constructs (like hunter of the dead, knight of the chalice, or shintao bonuses).

- Repair warforged is nice...until you reach about level 8 then it's about as useful as a ghost touch dagger of backstabbing. This needs to be changed, maybe an 'aura' or something that heals nearby allied constructs. I always felt the mechanic should be able to get that feat artificers get to turn half-warforged and be able to self heal to some degree through an aura or some sort of auto-repair.

[Gadget2775]

Wouldn't worry then. Players with a brain will remember that you didn't do those bad things.

I didn't look at it myself but there was an accidental bleed effect that hit Lama Land. Resulted in early preview of the new enhancement system which included some Rogue love. Info should still be floating around the Lama side forums.

Wouldn't expect to see anything until they decide they're happy with the new version though...Just wouldn't make sense to split resources between improving current PrEs while working on a complet wipe of the entire enhancement system.

I never blew a trap, or died to a trap, or failed to search for a trap, or spent more than a minute in somebody's backpack (I blamed the barbarian who decided he was a tank and lured half a quest before dying and dumped it all on me).

My issue with mechanic is the PrE needs to be updated.

- Smite construct only works with a melee weapon. Seriously? A PrE based on ranged dps and traps needs a melee weapon to use one of its abilities? This needs to be changed to something along the lines of having better damage. attack, saves vs constructs (like hunter of the dead, knight of the chalice, or shintao bonuses).

- Repair warforged is nice...until you reach about level 8 then it's about as useful as a ghost touch dagger of backstabbing. This needs to be changed, maybe an 'aura' or something that heals nearby allied constructs. I always felt the mechanic should be able to get that feat artificers get to turn half-warforged and be able to self heal to some degree through an aura or some sort of auto-repair.

[shadereaper33]

Bottom line, play what you enjoy. This is a game, and we all play it to have fun ourselves, not to make sure some random nameless face on the internet has fun. That being said, if you join a group with other people, be prepared for them to critique your build, your gear, your hp, your sp, your hair style, your armor kit, the way you spelled your name, the fact that you use voice chat, the fact that you don't use voice chat, and the fact that you exist in the first place.

[goodspeed]

if ya blow the box, you failed. I don't care if ur a arti, or an assassin. Hell with a 14 base int And average gear my assassin hits 65 disable maybe. If I actually equip a couple things it goes higher. If I even bothered to make a GS trappers item it could flippn skyrocket. Same with reflex. The dudes got 56 reflex? Again I could rocket that up to if I had a mind to. And the rog ain't even pure.

The means are there sonny, ya just gotta go buy em from the ah. Or make em, or trade some tokens for them from level traders.

The arti should have the same numbers about. If not higher because of the int based for runes. I think the only person that could actually excuse koing a box would be a 2 rog splash. And even those are pretty reliable. Ya blow the box it's ur fault, not what prestige you claimed.

[HastyPudding]

if ya blow the box, you failed. I don't care if ur a arti, or an assassin. Hell with a 14 base int And average gear my assassin hits 65 disable maybe. If I actually equip a couple things it goes higher. If I even bothered to make a GS trappers item it could flippn skyrocket. Same with reflex. The dudes got 56 reflex? Again I could rocket that up to if I had a mind to. And the rog ain't even pure.

The means are there sonny, ya just gotta go buy em from the ah. Or make em, or trade some tokens for them from level traders.

The arti should have the same numbers about. If not higher because of the int based for runes. I think the only person that could actually excuse koing a box would be a 2 rog splash. And even those are pretty reliable. Ya blow the box it's ur fault, not what prestige you claimed.

What in Sam Hill are you going on about? Ain't nobody blowin' any boxes around here or said they did. I've never failed a search or had to reroll on a box. I repeatedly get a critical success on a 1. Isn't that what a mechanic is about, no-fail trapping and godly reflexes? My reflexes versus traps are well above 55, last I actually bothered to check, and I very, very rarely get hit by an aoe. I only died in a trap once, and that was in the low levels before I even had a PrE and my dex wasn't what it is, now.

[mobrien316]

When other people start paying for your subscription, then they can have a say in your character.


Until then, play the character you want to play.


When I post an LFM, I take the first five or eleven people to hit it, occasionally reserving a spot for a trapper or healer. I couldn't care less what build a person has. That strategy works for me about 99.9% of the time. And I know a lot of people who do the exact same thing with their LFM's.

This is your game. If you want to play a mechanic, you should do so. If you encounter d-bags who don't want to group with you or who give you grief because you're not an assassin, who cares?

[HastyPudding]

When other people start paying for your subscription, then they can have a say in your character.


Until then, play the character you want to play.


When I post an LFM, I take the first five or eleven people to hit it, occasionally reserving a spot for a trapper or healer. I couldn't care less what build a person has. That strategy works for me about 99.9% of the time. And I know a lot of people who do the exact same thing with their LFM's.

This is your game. If you want to play a mechanic, you should do so. If you encounter d-bags who don't want to group with you or who give you grief because you're not an assassin, who cares?

You don't play on Argo server much, do you? :P

[goodspeed]

What in Sam Hill are you going on about? Ain't nobody blowin' any boxes around here or said they did. I've never failed a search or had to reroll on a box. I repeatedly get a critical success on a 1. Isn't that what a mechanic is about, no-fail trapping and godly reflexes? My reflexes versus traps are well above 55, last I actually bothered to check, and I very, very rarely get hit by an aoe. I only died in a trap once, and that was in the low levels before I even had a PrE and my dex wasn't what it is, now.

Whoa chill out there sweet buns. I was referring to the post a ways up. See er there? The one stating he's saddened and at his witts end dieing in traps and sticking the wrong stick in the box?

Personally if it works for quagmire, I don't see how he's blowing em but ya win some lose some that way.

You don't play on Argo server much, do you? :P

Oh come on the people of argo are friendly, and understanding. And theirs at least a 1 in 4 chance that the first 5 guys won't have obscenely low hp, or ask for a share to a 3rd in chain, or ask where the kings forest is, or where the shroud is, or be wearing the pathfinders set at 22 or....

[Expalphalog]

This is just a bit off-topic, but I was searching for a Pew-Pew Mechanic Build on the forums not but a few weeks ago, and it struck me as funny that I could not find a single piece of advice that wasn't "Just go Arty instead."

It's like people have forgotten that Arty is a paid class that not everyone has access to.