Wizard's Ward Spell orb

[GermanicusMaximus]

Yes the current state of the rest of the loot that has been added states that pretty clearly.

That or they just forget that Bards exist.

Face the facts. The devs only think about melee classes now, because the new target demographic for the game is apparently WoW players, and somehow the devs have to make it possible that people with that level of intellectual capability can find a toon to play in this game.

[DeafeningWhisper]

The introduction of Orbs is not a conspiracy against Bards either.

They are an optional loot item.

There are 3 items with Anthem in the game, the crappy cloak I wear with great shame, the Elyd Edge I have no use for and Blasting Chime every bard could fit, guess which one has *never* worked.

Bards are the only casters without magic training, Fatesinger makes an Arty a better bard then an actual bard in a 6 man party, bard songs where borked for years before they decided to fix them (here's a shock only partially), the list goes on...

There is no conspiracy, but a ton of neglect no doubt about that.

[Vellrad]

Yes the current state of the rest of the loot that has been added states that pretty clearly.

That or they just forget that Bards exist.

Bards are supposed to weild dwarven axes in each hand

[Fefnir_2011]

Exactly.

Orbs are not a purely cosmetic item. They are intended to provide bonuses to your character comparable to what you could otherwise find on an item that is equipped to one hand.

Staves, simply put, are designed to provide power to spellcasters equal to two hands worth of items.

While we can understand that players may want the thematic aspect of being a badass spellcaster with a staff of arcane power in one hand, and a swirling orb of thunderous fury in the other, that's something that we could only reasonably offer if orbs were a cosmetic item that conferred no in-game bonuses.

Unfortunately, that is not in our current vision for these items. We intend them to be paired with one-handed weapons, such as scepters, and the statistics on these items are balanced for that purpose.

Because heaven forbid we give more power to casting classes, all those WoW players playing DDO might get the vapors!

All joking aside, let me quote my Player's Handbook 3.5e at you here:

A quarterstaff is a double weapon. You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon . You can also strike with either end singly... a creature wielding a quarterstaff in one hand can't use it as a double weapon - only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.

Tell me if I'm reading that wrong, but there's a precedent for using a quarterstaff in one hand, and being able to attack with it.

On top of that, in DDO, the Arcane skeletons are clearly duel-wielding a longsword and a quarterstave. That's like totally not fair that the NPCs get to do that, and I can't.

As far as game balance, let me use two examples: The Staff of the Necromancer and a lootgen stave with +120 Glaciation, +120 Magnetism, and Ice Mastery. Right now, if I'm using the first one, I have to get all of my spellpower boosts on body slots (thus limiting me to +108 boosts). If I can use a stave with an orb, I can now fit 1 of my spellpower boosts in my hands thanks to the Wizard's Ward. I can also get Spell Focus Mastery +2 and Spell Pen, but the first is also on the challenge cloak and not that hard to find, and most caster items have some form of spell pen on them anyway.

If I'm using a Thaumaturgy staff, I'm still really only gaining slot consolidation, although I do get to have 3 spellpower boosts at +120 instead of 2, which most casters are only dual-specced anyway.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but I don't see how slot consolidation like this is OP compared to say, a sword that has been top of the DPS food chain for years.

[Pantronic]

Why can't I use a greatsword in my main hand, and a khopesh in my other hand at the same time?

You obviously think a wizard's staff is a weapon. It is not.. it's a walking stick.

[Singular]

If you're talking in a fantasy (non real-world) setting, I'd suppose that, if your character had a high enough STR and the mass to counterbalance the weight of such a huge weapon being swung with one hand, you could. Doing so accurately, though........

The thing is, a quarterstaff is far, far lighter than a greatsword. Having wielded both IRL, there's just no comparison (and I make no claim to having above average strength, as measured in real-world terms). It's not just the weight of the greatsword that makes it next-to-impossible to swing one-handed but the mass of it as well. A quarterstaff can be roughly the same size, but it's of lighter material- not easily swung one-handed, to be sure, but much easier to do so than a huge sword.

I'm not sure if there is a suitable game mechanic that would allow equipping a staff and orb, but there really should be. It could be as easy as having the orb "float" above the caster's off-hand rather than actually be held in it, thus freeing both hands to hold the staff.

A real quarterstaff, in real life, is incredibly heavy. Just as heavy as a two handed sword.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Maybe there should be a way to graft it onto a stave? After all, a wizards staff has a knob on the end...

You obviously think a wizard's staff is a weapon. It is not.. it's a walking stick.

had to include this

[Forzah]

First people complain about being forced to use a two-handed weapon. Now they get an alternative and they still complain. Just pick the option that is best for you.... you're in no way worse off than before.

[legendlore]

I wouldn't mind a "scepter" graphic that was staff like in its appearance, but asking for the new thaumaturge staffs (that was specifically recoded for casters to mimic 2 scepters) to be used in conjunction with the orb is a bit much game balance wise.

If bucklers were coded as in 3.5 pnp to be used while wearing a weapon (effectively giving another offhand slot to martial characters) I could see a similar code being used for orbs (ie a weaker version that is usable with staffs), but to be honest in my opinion casters in the current game really doesn't need any more special attention.

Also the orb inspiration seems to be drawn from 4e, now I only played 4e with the core books so my information might not be up to date, but as I remember it casters (wizards) choose one implement there, staff, orb or dagger and you couldn't use two implements at the same time at all. So if you had a orb as implement you could have a staff, banana peel or an ice cream truck in your other hand and none of them would make any difference game mechanics wise.

But saying all this I can't shake the feeling that as far as special attention goes casters are already highly prioritized with something added for them in every update (of late including entirely unique coded items categories), making asking for more seem rather disrespectful of other classes in the game in my opinion.

Yes the current state of the rest of the loot that has been added states that pretty clearly.

That or they just forget that Bards exist.

and this, bards haven't been part of the development for a long time now. Itemization of late has been particularly bad for the class. Bards are clearly not a priority at Turbine and the itemization team clearly doesn't remember/recognize the class as a part of the game or are being told by higher authorities to make items to push hard for certain other classes.

[donfilibuster]

Unfortunately, that is not in our current vision for these items. We intend them to be paired with one-handed weapons, such as scepters, and the statistics on these items are balanced for that purpose.

Clearly we can't have staves in 1h out of balance, that's out of question.
Clearly staves can't be wielded in 1h the way they are coded now.
And obviously there's no plans to change them, the idea has only been suggested here.

Yet the whole thing is not about using the orb with the staff, but about using the staff at all.
The main issue was with OP stating the bit about having to ditch the staff again.

It was not too long ago that staves were in need of love, and people had asked many times for making them worth wielding.
We now have the thaumaturgy and the new staves yet still given a hard choice between them and dual wielding caster items.

Wether the staff can be 1h or the orb can be made like the runearm is secondary to this.
The big worry is that it simply can't happen the way staves are right now.
How exactly to go on with such change is beyond scope, and there's enough precedent out there if need justify.
Point at hand is about being able to have casters keep using a staff as main weapon.

Surely need not change the whole engine to allow double weapons with actual twf.
I take Memnir's idea not about the tradeoff of meleeing with it, but as workaround to having to add 1h animations to staves.
It'd be akin to when the bastard sword were made to function as a fake 2h when used alone, instead of adding a 2h animation.

So staves aren't intended for 1h out of balance but could still be a good middle point if they could function partially when you slot an orb in the offhand.
Ideas may vary, but we know devs can do the coding because of the bastard sword, runearms and also things like the avenger sword.
e.g. the avenger sword changes powers if wield by a paladin, in a like manner the stave would work differently in 1h than 2h.

Obviously it'd be too much work to redo all the staves in game, something more general would be more simple.
Maybe suppresing the suffixes when in 1h, maybe supressing implement and potency bonuses, etc.
Maybe having it as a shard property that raises minimum level, so you can only use a less powerful staff to compensate.

That's of course, when devs get to do it. Meanwhile the issue is about staves needing love, like in the past.
And naturally one way to do that is to just go adding nice staves in future updates, beside any new shiny orbs that would surely come.
The hard choice will still be there.

p.s. won't say a word about this again if we get to have pointy hats

[Melt-emi]

First people complain about being forced to use a two-handed weapon. Now they get an alternative and they still complain. Just pick the option that is best for you.... you're in no way worse off than before.

This.

Orbs added in game dont couple with staves? Screw variety, let's whine till we get to use both at the same time.

Also, i'm missing 8 rings on my fingers... Please devs?

[Carpone]

Staves, simply put, are designed to provide power to spellcasters equal to two hands worth of items.

Since when? Alchemical staves (from Master Artificer/Lord of Blades) are exactly half the power of two alchemical items. Even the newer staves since U14 are not twice the power of two hands worth of items. It may be your intent, but that goal hasn't been met yet. The Wizard Ward is well itemized, but there's not a staff that comes close to eclipsing it when paired with another one-hand item for an arcane or divine.

[Daemoneyes]

Why can't I use a greatsword in my main hand, and a khopesh in my other hand at the same time?

Cause you failed to implement the Feat Monkey Grip

Monkey Grip [General, Fighter]
This feat allows you to wield a weapon one size larger than normal in one hand.
Prerequisite: Str 13, +1 Base Attack Bonus.
Benefit: This feat grants the ability to wield melee weapons that are one size too large for your race, as if they were one size smaller, at a –2 penalty to hit. (This includes using two-handed weapons as single-handed weapons, as two-handed weapons are considered a size category larger.)
Special: A Fighter may select this as a bonus feat.

So Instead of answering a perfectly fine question you troll,
perfect way to show Turbine costumer relationship.

And that in a situation where the community is already in stir cause you implement
absolute stupid and unnecessary Advertisement
(which cripples game-play for all without huge monitors and just trolls VIP and active Premium User)
and dont even let yourself down from your high horse to answer the questions and concerns about it.

[pjw]

Why can't I use a greatsword in my main hand, and a khopesh in my other hand at the same time?

Simple answer: it's not iconic.

Staff and Orb: iconic. You even used it in your own artwork.

[Musouka]

Simple answer: it's not iconic.

Staff and Orb: iconic. You even used it in your own artwork.

Reavers and Flensers are not iconic to D&D, let's remove them too. Or how about Rangers getting both TWF and Archery feats, that's not iconic.

Also, Monkey Grip was never a core feat. It was something users added, because they just wanted to be cool. If you look it up in the D&D wiki, you can clearly see that it is apart of the Homebrew section.

[pjw]

Exactly.
Staves, simply put, are designed to provide power to spellcasters equal to two hands worth of items.

Except of course they don't. 90% of the time two one-handers are still better.

[artistx]

Does anyone know if orbs uncenter you? if so why?

[pjw]

Reavers and Flensers are not iconic to D&D, let's remove them too. Or how about Rangers getting both TWF and Archery feats, that's not iconic.

There's a considerable gulf between hide-bound PnP rule interpretations (which DDO has *never* done), and generally reconized fantasy icons, which pretty much every DDO player would recognize.

Yes my answer may have been glib and trivializing, but it was in fact a valid answer to a spurious argument, and many other people in this thread seem also to recognize the iconic status.

In terms of gameplay, the orbs are of marginal utility at best and making them stack with staves would have actually made staves useful at the same time as making orbs useful.

[Musouka]

I think they are just setting up certain items into the game that are actually going have more benefit as the enhancement pass finally gets rolling.

also if they're marginal, then why is everyone up in arms about them?

[cyberguy]

What if they made it so the orbs can be affixed to the end of the staff via stone of change or some other alter along with an ingrediant or two, problem solved. If the devs were so inclined, they could even make the ingrediants only available via DDO store, so if someone really wanted that option, DDO could make a little extra coin. I know that caters to the pay to win policy and making that kind of thing exclusive to the DDO store only, would upset a lot of players, but with a bit of cash flow behind the idea the devs may be more inclined to do something to that effect.