Wizard's Ward Spell orb

[Chaos000]

While I do understand where you are coming from, I still don't see why Casters can't use quarterstaves in one hand.. you have allowed Artificers to use Heavy Repeaters with only one hand and use a rune arm in the other???? So why not casters??

Probably the same reason why Artificers can't use a runearm with a bow or a greatsword. The description of the orb is similar in function to a shield, I'm assuming offhand only? So an artificer that is a multiclass wizard cannot have both a runearm or an orb equipped.

[Chai]

Face the facts. The devs only think about melee classes now, because the new target demographic for the game is apparently WoW players, and somehow the devs have to make it possible that people with that level of intellectual capability can find a toon to play in this game.

Those WOW players are used to playing PVP in 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, and 40v40 environments, which is far more challenging than anything that DDO has ever put together with the AI of a PvE only game which can be strangled with a cordless phone. The fact that this turns many of them into d-bags and a-clowns doesnt mean they cant mop the floor with most of us when it comes to cooldown management, spell point conservation, economy of movement, and sheer actions per minute gaming.

In fact, the entire reason DDO can sell endless mana potions to people who prefer to buy them en masse and guzzle them to victory over actually learning how to manage resources is because most of them DID NOT play WOW, because in WOW mana pots have a cooldown. You either learn how to manage resources, or your party/raid wipes.

If people who played WOW come over to DDO and play, the DDO store doesnt have a prayer making money selling game balance circumvention devices.

The target demographic for the DDO is complainers. If enough people complain about something that wastes time in a long grind or makes the game too tough, they will soon sell something in the store that allows people to circumvent that which they complained about.

[Chai]

While I do understand where you are coming from, I still don't see why Casters can't use quarterstaves in one hand.. you have allowed Artificers to use Heavy Repeaters with only one hand and use a rune arm in the other???? So why not casters??

Because artys are a pay to get class and most casters are not. They had to make them not suck. Having to choose between rune arm -or- crossbow but not both at the same time would have cut their DPS in half = they suck = cant sell them.

[Llewndyn]

My interpretation is, normally you require both hands to use the item. You *may* use it in in one hand, however doing so would cause the other half of the item to no longer function

My mom told me that could happen, but the other half still works, and I've been using two hands on my item for a long time. Sometimes 3 hands if the person sitting next to me on the bus isn't paying attention.

I have nothing valuable to add to this thread. Carry on.l

[chrisdinus7]

Because artys are a pay to get class and most casters are not. They had to make them not suck. Having to choose between rune arm -or- crossbow but not both at the same time would have cut their DPS in half = they suck = cant sell them.

You are trying to force your theme onto a subject where it doesn't work. Druids are weak, yet p2p. Sorcs & Wizards are strong but f2p. I don't see any relation between class power and its p2p status.

[Such755]

You bring a good point.
/signed

[Daemoneyes]

No, they can attack. Just let them attack as if they were unarmed and not proficient.

I mean obviously they could lift a leg to try to boot stomp kick something. Think of the breakables!

Like a rune arm is special linked to crossbows, so you could link the orb to staff, and just define that the orb must always be off hand. (I don't have an arcane caster currently so I can't play it up to see and have a lookie if the orb is already only offhand.)

people really run to the breakables and smash them? 0o
in low i ignore that stuff and let the other smash it or use throwing weapons.
in high you have SLA that get this job done

[Missing_Minds]

people really run to the breakables and smash them? 0o

uh... yeah. +4 tomes and such.

[countfitz]

Those WOW players are used to playing PVP in 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, and 40v40 environments, which is far more challenging than anything that DDO has ever put together with the AI of a PvE only game which can be strangled with a cordless phone. The fact that this turns many of them into d-bags and a-clowns doesnt mean they cant mop the floor with most of us when it comes to cooldown management, spell point conservation, economy of movement, and sheer actions per minute gaming.

In fact, the entire reason DDO can sell endless mana potions to people who prefer to buy them en masse and guzzle them to victory over actually learning how to manage resources is because most of them DID NOT play WOW, because in WOW mana pots have a cooldown. You either learn how to manage resources, or your party/raid wipes.

If people who played WOW come over to DDO and play, the DDO store doesnt have a prayer making money selling game balance circumvention devices.

The target demographic for the DDO is complainers. If enough people complain about something that wastes time in a long grind or makes the game too tough, they will soon sell something in the store that allows people to circumvent that which they complained about.

I hate when Chai's right people! No, but seriously, This ^

[donfilibuster]

It'd still be easier to just being able to slot them without the orb being fully functional.
Without it, all that leaves is swapping weapons sets between the staff and the orb, but that'd be nothing special.

One idea would be to have the orb come up only when blocking, during which the staff would be held in hand.
They can make a special case so similar to the runearm that lets you equip the staff and the orb.

The staff will take precedence, so you'll be using the staff powers, and the orb would be sheathed.
The staff would be held in 2h like crossbows with runearms, then when you block you unsheathe the orb.

This is about having the orb in the slot, not about actually wielding both like with the runearm.
After all you need no monkey grip to do just hold the staff, you just can't wield it, activate it or get the passive benefit.

An exception would be the clickies, since per the SRD you can cast from a staff with one hand.
But that's aside, because for using the staff the way it is in DDO you'd still need two hands.

That way people with staves with or without knobs in the end can keep using them and only use the orb situationally or for the blocking benefit.
Assuming there's still a power when blocking, since the orbs were first advertised to be like that.

Since this is not too different from swapping two weapons sets, having it slotted should be of some use.
After all many casters have the habit of swapping scepters all the time.

What gain would be worth is up for future discussion, maybe the devs can think about it on their own.
Just note that when blocking you can't move or jump, and won't be using shield block either.

Stretching the idea you may even have orbs charge like the runearm, or made them craftable for a passive benefit.
I won't go as far as saying this would justify using the two items together with the full powers.
Point is that as far as holding the two items together is concerned, that'd be technically possible.

[chrisdinus7]

Those WOW players are used to playing PVP in 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, and 40v40 environments, which is far more challenging than anything that DDO has ever put together with the AI of a PvE only game which can be strangled with a cordless phone. The fact that this turns many of them into d-bags and a-clowns doesnt mean they cant mop the floor with most of us when it comes to cooldown management, spell point conservation, economy of movement, and sheer actions per minute gaming.

In fact, the entire reason DDO can sell endless mana potions to people who prefer to buy them en masse and guzzle them to victory over actually learning how to manage resources is because most of them DID NOT play WOW, because in WOW mana pots have a cooldown. You either learn how to manage resources, or your party/raid wipes.

If people who played WOW come over to DDO and play, the DDO store doesnt have a prayer making money selling game balance circumvention devices.

The target demographic for the DDO is complainers. If enough people complain about something that wastes time in a long grind or makes the game too tough, they will soon sell something in the store that allows people to circumvent that which they complained about.

Yeah, I play WoW with my girlfriend in addition to DDO. WoW is a harder game. But I like the option of being able to solo in DDO - not that soloing in DDO requires store purchases.

[countfitz]

This is not 4th edition (yet(hopefully)).

But implements ARE 4th Edition! Orbs ARE 4th Edition! I think the real issue here is a legality one, which is why Feather can't come out and tell the truth. If he did, he'd be violating a copyright on 4E, which Turbine doesn't have the rights to. And all this complaining is going to end up upsetting so many devs and employees they're just going to do away with orbs altogether instead of expanding them, like rune arms were, into other packs.

And to those discussing monkey grip. If we used 3.5, monkey grip would NOT let you dual wield Two Handed weapons, Monkey Grip would increase the size category of your weapon which would change the dice size. Basically, it would be like the arti's deadly weapons spell as a feat. It's not that powerful in 3.5 as it is in 3.0. So you couldn't dual wield 2 eSoS.

[countfitz]

Nobody has brought this up I think either, though if they have my bad, but nobody is mentioning that if we did allow staves and orbs to be dual wielded, we'd have to completely redo the animation and physics engine. That would be a disaster, as we can see from the current animation bugs.

[legendlore]

While you are right on both terms,
it still doesnt matter much what the exact requirements are, cause the feat would have to be re-balanced for the game.
So at least for me, only the fact counts that it exists and that FoS should know such things and not give troll replies.

It would be rebalanced for sure, not used by the letter it was a bit of a can of worms in pnp, I once made a character that had a base weapon damage of 12d6 at level 2 (that is without weapon enhancements and str bonus, just base damage) abusing this (we had silly campaigns now and then when we made the most outrageous characters we could). That is enough to one-shot large dragons and smack down the Tarasque in 3 rounds, again at level 2!

As side note i recalled the feat but had way higher min requirements (18str+) in my head, i think there was a second level of that feat which allowed even bigger weapons.

There is, an epic feat Wield Oversized Weapon str 25, bab 21, Monkey grip as prerequisite. Removes the -2 to hit from wielding larger weapons. Horrible horrible epic feat.

Also i remembered that the feat allows 2h weapons but well, its been years since i used it.
(wasnt it also in Neverwinter?)

NWN2 had it and it did allow you to use 2h weapons in one hand there (unless you were a halfling), likely because of that there were no ordinary large weapons in the game. I suppose ddo would face the same problem and I think it may be here a lot of people somehow got it to that Monkey grip allows you to dual wield 2 eSoS, while by the 3.5 rules it would just allow you to use a eSoS that did 1d6 more damage.

[Hendrik]

You are trying to force your theme onto a subject where it doesn't work. Druids are weak, yet p2p. Sorcs & Wizards are strong but f2p. I don't see any relation between class power and its p2p status.

Weak Druids are run by players that build/play them badly.

Same goes for Wizard and Sorcs. Don't care how strong you 'think' they are, put them into the hands of someone that does not have a clue, like ALL classes, and they are just dead weight.

[Vellrad]

I demand equal strength with giants

We got that already.
1/2 orc barb with 100str.

[Musouka]

NWN2 had it and it did allow you to use 2h weapons in one hand there (unless you were a halfling), likely because of that there were no ordinary large weapons in the game. I suppose ddo would face the same problem and I think it may be here a lot of people somehow got it to that Monkey grip allows you to dual wield 2 eSoS, while by the 3.5 rules it would just allow you to use a eSoS that did 1d6 more damage.

NWN2 had a lot of feats that were just made up for the game. It's a matter of transition to video games, and their idea was very overpowering, but it still gave you a huge penalty to attack. NWN2 also didn't have a bevy of +6 items.

http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-wa...ey-grip--1978/

That's the best link I could find on Monkey Grip, and it doesn't account for offhand.

[chrisdinus7]

Weak Druids are run by players that build/play them badly.

Same goes for Wizard and Sorcs. Don't care how strong you 'think' they are, put them into the hands of someone that does not have a clue, like ALL classes, and they are just dead weight.

Sure. It was a generalization to make a point about comparing class power and their p2p status. Any class can be played badly. I was simply pointing out that I have seen lots of folks complain that druids are weak, and hence arguing that all p2p classes are strong is not a good argument.

[legendlore]

NWN2 had a lot of feats that were just made up for the game. It's a matter of transition to video games, and their idea was very overpowering, but it still gave you a huge penalty to attack. NWN2 also didn't have a bevy of +6 items.

http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-wa...ey-grip--1978/

That's the best link I could find on Monkey Grip, and it doesn't account for offhand.

Monkey grip [general]
You are able to use a larger weapon than other people your size

Prerequisite:Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can use melee weapons one size category larger than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, but the amount of effort it takes you to use the weapon does not change. For instance, a Large longsword (a one-handed weapon for a large Large creature) is considered a two-handed weapon for a Medium creature that does not have this feat. For a Medium creature that has this feat, it is still considered a one-handed weapon. You can wield a larger light weapon as a light weapon, or a larger two-handed weapon in two hands. You cannot wield a larger weapon in your off hand, and you cannot use this feat with a double weapon.
Normal: You can use a melee weapon one size category larger than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, and the amount of effort it takes to use the weapon increases. A larger light weapon is considered a one-handed weapon, a larger one-handed weapon is considered a two-handed weapon, and you cannot use a two-handed weapon at all.

This is the 3.5e Monkey Grip feat (and the 2005 errata of Complete Warrior doesn't change the 2003 edition one), it doesn't allow 2handed weapons to be used in one hand, much less the use of double weapons in one hand or 2h weapons to be used in an off hand.

Now some DM:s allowed for 2h weapons to be wielded in one hand based on the weapon size conversion table, which is fine but just like the above webpage quote is a home brewed house ruling of the feat. Why was this something many discussed and house ruled, well likely because in 3.0 it was allowed and the feat was pretty bad otherwise and almost always worse than Power attack.

one page before, so you didn't even have to leave the thread

[Musouka]

one page before, so you didn't even have to leave the thread

Heh... this thread is growing fast, just missed that one post.