Sorc Build Help?

[yawumpus]

Elfs have extra spell pen. Good if you want to focus a bit more on the enchant or necro route.

Unless Turbine has changed yet another thing (without updating enough docs/wikis), only elf wizards get extra spell pen. This really only leaves WF and human as really good sorcerer races.

[SirValentine]

note: An above poster stated taking Spell Penetration feats... No. Just No. You're a nuker, nothing else.

Take this advice with a grain of salt. I'm not saying it's wrong, because it is a reasonable approach. But getting enough Spell Pen to be effective in certain tiers of content is ALSO a reasonable approach. Depends on your preferences, your build, gear, your content played, etc..

[unbongwah]

Plus my feats give me +8 spell pen, Focus only gives you +3 DC. (Although the real comparison would be +8 spell pen vs. +2 DC and something, because we all need at least one Focus.)

I guess my question is: what spells would you use on a sorc which require Spell Pen? I.e., which Enchant and/or Necro spells would you slot in?

note: An above poster stated taking Spell Penetration feats... No. Just No. You're a nuker, nothing else. Your CC is decent, you can still get the DCs to cast a nasty Finger of Death or Wail... but that is not your job. Spell Penetration both in enhancements and feats is a waste on a savant. We do DAMAGE. We don't deal with blue bubble spell penetration checks.

I've met sorcs who are pretty good at CC and/or instakills. So it may be a challenge for a sorc to get good at them (due to lack of feats etc.), but certainly not impossible. That said, I'd like to know which spell(s) Kinerd was boosting with his Spell Pen feats. EDIT: in particular, wondering if it's a practical expectation for a first-life newbie sorc.

[Eilierie]

First life elf earth savant ( made every build mistake in the book ) - couldn't even begin to tell you what my DC's are. I don't run EE. In EH and HE I land FoD, Wail, and Disco ball - ummm.... 80 % of the time it works every time ( anchorman )

Most used spells are Black dragon bolt ( most of time it will crit for over 1000 on first hit, then triple stack it with curse on orange, purple and red name ), acid splat, melf's, acid rain, FoD, Wail, earth grab, otto's, polar ray, disintegrate

Other flavors for situational use are firewall, cone of cold, frost lance, prismatic ray, web, cloud kill, mass hold monster, knock, dimension door.

Rest of spells are buffing - GH, True Seeing, blur, displace, stoneskin, protect ele, resist energy, night shield, protect evil, exp retreat, haste, rage

So yes CC and Instakill from first lifer certainly practical.

Also I could have squeaked out 5% more DPS maybe I dunno but I already have a hard enough time as it is not stealing aggro from tankers.

[Therigar]

I recently did some recalculations for the ideal Pale Master race

It was inevitable that someone would respond to my post about drow, human, half-elf and warforged. If a person reads carefully your post confirms what I initially said.

The highest DC will belong to drow. But, when players are looking at builds there is more to the story than just DC. If there were not then drow is all that would be used.

Human, half-elf and warforged all bring added elements to the build making them preferred race choices to drow.

I'll leave the debate of which is "best" to the individual player to decide since each player has a different priority. But, for most people drow is a fourth choice.

[Inouk]

I recently did some recalculations for the ideal Pale Master race with a +5 tome and I found that, depending on the grind you want to do, human or elf(for spell pen) are still overall the best. For a sorc:

General CHA: 18base+6lvlups+5tome+8itm+1exc+3ins+3sorcenhs+6dra ced= 50+1litany+1epicft= 52+2ship+2yugo= 56

drw: +2base= 58
hum: +1humenh: 57
helf: 56
elf: 56
wf: -2base= 54


General DCs: (56-10=46/2=)23chabonus+10base+9spell+1plft+2itm= 45

evoc: +1normalft+1greaterft+3magisterspellschool+2dracpr ecisecasting+1from3itm= 53

drw: +1chabonus= 54
hum: 53
helf: 53
elf: 53
wf: 52
(+1 evoc dc to all for Epic Spell Focus feat)

But a human can take another epic cha feat instead of Epic Spell Focus to even out his cha. This would give him an equal dc to drow for conj/enchant/necro(1 ahead of everyone else) even though 1 behind in evoc(equal with everyone except drow). The human would get an extra skill point throughout its life, heal amp enhancements, and an extra feat(2 extra feats vs wf depending on if you still want to take Quicken since you don't feel obligated to take it for Recon.)

That said, in EE you won't be making your conc checks with any reliability at all. Can be tricky to maneuver for heal scrolls too. So quicken may be a given anyway. There's also UMD lag, even though it's something seperate which can be fixed. While not really a specific flaw of fleshie sorcs the reality of the game makes this relevant.

WF have recon, 25% extra fort(good for ee), and a bit more hp. They lose 1-2 DCs.

Helfs get heal amp and pally saves if you want go that route. (UMD is still better than FVS dilly)

Elfs have extra spell pen. Good if you want to focus a bit more on the enchant or necro route.


Overall, I guess it comes down to this:
Warforged have extra fort/uninterruptible and fast self healing, but lose 1-2 dcs(might not be to big when you're at max dcs but when you're still grinding for it or don't want to it'll be different. Similar to how pre-u14, 42 and 43 dcs on a wiz in epics there was a very noticable performance difference).

Fleshies have 1-2 more dcs, can use heal amp enhs/items, can be healed by the party healer, but have slower(requiring 2 clicks or some sacrifice in gear layout) and less reliable self-healing(EE you will almost never make the conc check).

This.

I don't approach things yet from the mentality of level 25 since my personal experience is the real game is getting to 25. Your DCs as a sorc while leveling up, especially first life, are likely to feel inadequate regardless. Still, as a drow I felt I could cast wail, finger, mass hold, etc and still have them be useful even if they only hit maybe 65% or less in some content. You lose 2 DC and this drops to 55% or less and you start wondering if those spells are even worth casting. Before epic came out my sorc could only get DCs in the 38-39 range, and people required 42-43 for crowd control in some epic content, anything below 40 was considered to be nearly useless, partly because of recurring saves.

At any rate, I never said one approach is better, I merely said the OP should also consider drow and human, WF is not the only right answer and if you are going WF, until you get your epic destinies leveled up you likely will find yourself gravely disappointed with any spells that get a save. Some of the ED's let you self heal now also.

[HalfORCastrator]

It was inevitable that someone would respond to my post about drow, human, half-elf and warforged. If a person reads carefully your post confirms what I initially said.

You got on the subject, thought I would elaborate on it. It was meant as something that would assist the discussion, not be a part of it that differs with your post. I'm not sure of my opinion regarding sorc race.

Unless Turbine has changed yet another thing (without updating enough docs/wikis), only elf wizards get extra spell pen. This really only leaves WF and human as really good sorcerer races.

That's unfortunate.

[Kinerd]

I guess my question is: what spells would you use on a sorc which require Spell Pen? I.e., which Enchant and/or Necro spells would you slot in?

At least two of Wail, Energy Drain, and PW: Kill. (I feel level 9 is especially compelling for this argument.)
One of Otto's Irresistible Dance or PW: Stun. (I haven't played around with Greater Shout, it's possible that it is superior to those two and of course no SR.)
Finger of Death for sure, maybe Otto's Sphere.

The beauty of these for someone with lower DCs is that 4 of the 7 have no save at all, Wail neg levels on save, and Sphere you can kite through. Finger is the only one that really leans on DC, but it's single target and ranged so you can pick carefully, plus what else are you going to slot from level 7?