It's time for Shard/Seal trade-ins for Ebberon epics

[ferrite]

/signed

[ThreeEyedBob]

I've been thinking along these lines myself. I can understand people grinding their teeth out to get shards being grumpy about changes to the mechanics, but seriously, there is a middle road between "crazy random shot-in-the-dark droprates" and "press button for free shard".

A trade in system would be great. I didnt know about the Sands trade-in system for scrolls until recently, but I think that system looks good. How the ratio should be is the correct discussion rather than "if or not".

A horrible droprate has nothing to do with the game providing a challenge for you as a player. It's more like diagnosis system for wether or not people are autistic or not. Running the same quest hundreds of times for months just to get a single shard or seal is just beyond silly. Its not challenging at all. Its just a mindnumbing grind with no reward in sight since the droprates are so bad and random.

I would say limit the trade-ins to packs (IE Red Fens shards trade in for Red Fens shards, Carnival for Carnival etc). The code already exists with the Sands scroll turn in so its more of a logistical matter. I would say put in a trader in the relevant areas (or an object) where you can trade scrolls/seals/shards.

It would not hurt the game in any way except perhaps scroll sales/trades. It would make epic content more accessible without killing it (the droprates on any seal/shard is still ****** and you still have to do quite a lot of them to get any random seal/shard to trade for the one you want).

So for my part
/signed

[Persiflage]

/signed

Hear, hear!

And LMAO@ThreeEyedBob: will paraphrase and sig that line. Awesomesauce.

[Miow]

Okay i cave in /signed on the condition that they change every(even FR) epic in the game back to the old difficulty level no more c/n/h/e.

[DeafeningWhisper]

/Somewhat signed

I would do the following: 10 seals/shards (any) for 1 master seal/shard, that way you need 10 shards and 10 seals to make any epic item, as long as you have the right scroll of course. Boosts the scroll economy, for a while at least, and gives a sense of accomplishement missing at the moment.

I have run CiTW 20 times on my Bardcher, got my Pinion, 3 commendations and a Breach, happy camper, the system works. On the other hand, I have ransacked LoD chain on 5 toons every weeek since U14, got all seals save Silver Slinger and Envenomed and all shards save Helm, Slinger, Flameward, Fury of the Flame and Double Cross-Bow, guess which ones I wanted.

On the plus side I did complete an Epic Bow of the Silver Flame which my AA loves, but its literaly the only epic I finished I wanted from the chain while I have enough mats to epic every other item useless to me, sometimes twice or more times over...

[crazydamage]

A really dumb idea.

Epic claw set is one of the EASIEST sets get. I definitely have at least 3 full epic claw sets and probably a couple spare shard/seal sets in the bank.

And these were farmed pre U14 with "real" epics, not easy mode Destiny EN/EH epics that you can finish in about 5 minutes tops. Hell pre-U14 we ran Eclaw in about 10 minutes (solo/duo east, solo/duo west, group up for North and then 1 minute for endfight.

What's so hard about 5minutes x 50runs = 250 minutes = 4 hours? That's less than the time it takes to farm a ML24 Adamantine Cloak of the dragon/bear/wolf.

Also you freely admit that you're getting XP for the runs on your "destinies". That's something we didnt even get pre U14.

My advice to you is, improve your play, or the players you group with.
You're complaining that you haven't gotten your Eclaw set in about 4 hours of gameplay, even 8 hours if you were twice as slow as most players.

[UrbanPyro]

Deleted.

[MRMechMan]

Took me 105 runs, old epic. Keep at it!

In the meanwhile,

/signed.

[MRMechMan]

Although, a high ratio like 10:1 or 20:1 would result in players looting/rolling on EVERY seal/shard..which I'm not sure is a good thing.

[Dolphious]

/Not signed.

No more easy buttons in game plox.

K thx bai.

Oh come on, this isn't an "easy button" in any meaningful sense. We're talking about whether it should take 50 or 200 runs of a pretty easy quest. This is about how much mindless grind is appropriate it has nothing to do with easy/hard.

Now whether epic norm/hard should exist at all, and how they should be calibrated is an important, but unrelated issue.

Although, a high ratio like 10:1 or 20:1 would result in players looting/rolling on EVERY seal/shard..which I'm not sure is a good thing..

Yeah, I hear that, but you could still trade shards/seals in the chest if you both got one. Probably would mean less giving away of shards, but that's a down side I'd be willing to accept.

What's so hard about 5minutes x 50runs = 250 minutes = 4 hours?

Ah, that's awesome. Funny on so many levels. If the general context was clearer it would be sig worthy.

Also generally:

I ran plenty of epics, including several dozen deeps runs, before u14. The system kind of blew in this regard from the begining. I know that loot systems haven't been great lately, and that's led to some nostalgia about the "good old days," but I feel like there's a lot of lipstick being put on this pig.

[kanbeki]

While I am sort of for this, It's more for raid shards/seals. I understand you're having bad luck with your claw shard but I have pulled so many of these its not even funny I have/had claw gloves on everything from fvs to bards, every melee I have has a pair. I would suggest possibly running in a static guild group or dual maybe triple boxing, that is how I got mine. Now SOS shard on the other hand, I have pulled one since the raid came out.

[crazydamage]

No, I'm being serious here.
What is it that you find so hard about running eDeeps 50 times.

50 times 5 minutes = 250 minutes = 4 hours.

20 completions of any raid takes you > 20 hours.

And you're whining about 4 hours?

Even if you were twice as slow thats only 8 hours. Its still much less than 20 completions of any raid.

If you aren't skilled nor patient enough to put in 8 hours, maybe you should spend 30 minutes instead and get the Purple Dragon Knight set which is almost as good. I think thats more appropriate for you.

[samthedagger]

This should go in the suggestions forums, but I wholeheartedly agree.

/signed

[Dolphious]

No, I'm being serious here.
What is it that you find so hard about running eDeeps 50 times.

50 times 5 minutes = 250 minutes = 4 hours.

20 completions of any raid takes you > 20 hours.

And you're whining about 4 hours?

Even if you were twice as slow thats only 8 hours. Its still much less than 20 completions of any raid.

If you aren't skilled nor patient enough to put in 8 hours, maybe you should spend 30 minutes instead and get the Purple Dragon Knight set which is almost as good. I think thats more appropriate for you.

1. where are you getting 50 runs from? AFAICT you pulled that number out of your butt.
2. It's not a 5 min quest; yes it can be done in 5 mins, but that doesn't make it 5 min quest. I'd be surprised if the median completion time was less than 20 mins.
3. Even if it was a 5 min quest you can't multiply it by the number of runs to get a total time figure, so much other stuff needs to be done to get a group together that will do those 5 min runs.
4. Your math is wrong, 240 mins = 4 hours.
5. This really isn't about claw shards, that was just flavor story to give the idea some context.
6. I'd love to see the expression of normal people to the idea that 4 hours playing a video game is a laughably short amount of time to get a single virtual item. Well 1/3 of a single virtual item...

But hey, whatever, I respect your opinion that the current system is a reasonable amount of grind. We clearly have different approaches to the game which naturally leads to different views on what game systems will optimally be like. It's definitely the type of issue that has no "right" answer, it's totally a matter of opinion.

[MRMechMan]

No, I'm being serious here.
What is it that you find so hard about running eDeeps 50 times.

50 times 5 minutes = 250 minutes = 4 hours.

20 completions of any raid takes you > 20 hours.

And you're whining about 4 hours?

Even if you were twice as slow thats only 8 hours. Its still much less than 20 completions of any raid.

If you aren't skilled nor patient enough to put in 8 hours, maybe you should spend 30 minutes instead and get the Purple Dragon Knight set which is almost as good. I think thats more appropriate for you.

Yea, serious...seriously wrong. Serious a$$hole too about it, but I guess that is opinion.

Where does 50 come from? Could be 1, could be 1000...

It is probably average 10-15min easily. Like people need LESS reasons to run Eberron epics...the idea itself needs tweaking and I am generally against more easy buttons but running a quest 100+ times without even seeing the shard you need is very frustrating. Shards on 30th/60th/90th lists, SOMETHING to take the randomness out a BIT.

[knockcocker]

No, I'm being serious here.
What is it that you find so hard about running eDeeps 50 times.

50 times 5 minutes = 250 minutes = 4 hours.

20 completions of any raid takes you > 20 hours.

And you're whining about 4 hours?

Even if you were twice as slow thats only 8 hours. Its still much less than 20 completions of any raid.

If you aren't skilled nor patient enough to put in 8 hours, maybe you should spend 30 minutes instead and get the Purple Dragon Knight set which is almost as good. I think thats more appropriate for you.

Why do people continually conflate luck and time with easy/hard?

When Epic was a difficultly level this mechanic kind of made sense as it
fitted well with the mindset of players who did Epic then. Now, it just
doesn't. Running something over and over and over again to get everything
but what you want is not hard. At all. It is frustrating though.

Nobody is asking for anything for free. As the claw set seems to be the example
du jour, what's the real material difference between pulling a claw shard or
a twisted talisman shard? - absolutely none apart from a question of luck. The
same criteria were fulfilled to get both.

All this thread is asking for is a horizon to bad luck.

The alternative is to massively up drop rates on Elite so it's worth running
though I prefer the idea I linked earlier - add superior and sovereign seals
to EH/EE to improve the base Eberron Epic item further.

[Lycurgus]

What's so hard about 5minutes x 50runs = 250 minutes = 4 hours? That's less than the time it takes to farm a ML24 Adamantine Cloak of the dragon/bear/wolf.

Also you freely admit that you're getting XP for the runs on your "destinies". That's something we didnt even get pre U14.

My advice to you is, improve your play, or the players you group with.

It isn't hard, that's the point. It's mindless grind that sucks every last vestige of anything resembling "fun" out of gaming.

I recently pulled the eAGA seal after 160+ runs, with the last 92 runs on a single toon kept at cap solely for the purpose of running Snitch. If there wasn't a ransack timer, sure, I could see that being reasonable. If it was as trivial as farming for an adamantine cloak in a single marathon session, fine.

It's a stupid mechanic requiring mind-numbing grind. And it's annoying collecting 8-10+ of every other seal and scroll that you have absolutely no use for. Some sort of trade-in, even 25 or 50 to 1, would help remove some of the sheer luck factor from the equation.

[Palantyr]

From the perspective of someone who has made a lot of eberron epic items, I can't see many problems with a seal/shard trade-in now. Most of the old really good eberron items are at best ever so slightly better than some very easy to get forgotten realms gear and maybe it would inspire people to get out of the brown halls of house robar probably not but maybe. Two potential issues though, it's more dev time spent on old content and the ring of spell storing. I have the impression that's one of the old epic items they still want to keep rare, introduce a seal/shard trade-in system and it just becomes another mandatory piece of gear for any blue bar and at least for higher difficulties future quests would have to be designed around the assumption that all blue bars have one.

[DeafeningWhisper]

A really dumb idea.

Epic claw set is one of the EASIEST sets get. I definitely have at least 3 full epic claw sets and probably a couple spare shard/seal sets in the bank.

And these were farmed pre U14 with "real" epics, not easy mode Destiny EN/EH epics that you can finish in about 5 minutes tops. Hell pre-U14 we ran Eclaw in about 10 minutes (solo/duo east, solo/duo west, group up for North and then 1 minute for endfight.

What's so hard about 5minutes x 50runs = 250 minutes = 4 hours? That's less than the time it takes to farm a ML24 Adamantine Cloak of the dragon/bear/wolf.

Also you freely admit that you're getting XP for the runs on your "destinies". That's something we didnt even get pre U14.

My advice to you is, improve your play, or the players you group with.
You're complaining that you haven't gotten your Eclaw set in about 4 hours of gameplay, even 8 hours if you were twice as slow as most players.

You're confusing luck with skill, and your post makes it sound like you don't want people to get what you had to grind for, kinda like "suffer like I did or it's not fair".
I had to run 20 times the worse raid in the game to get my Pinion, but if they implimented a mechanic with a 10th run completion I wouldn't mind.

My current druid got his Torc on his 6th run, doesn't mean it takes 6 runs to get it and 20th list shouldn't be implimented since anyone can do ADQ2 six times and get a Torc, it just means I got lucky since some have run it 100+ times with no Torc.

Let's take Thornlord for example, what are the odd of making an Epic one? I tried for months to get the base item then gave up, so forget about the seal or shard. Yet I can get a much better bow in CiTW thanks to the 20th list with a fairly good chance, so why is epicing Thornlord such an impossibly grindy task?

We are not asking for an "easy bouton", just a sense of accomplishment and the guarantee that our efforts will pay up eventually because as it stands now I may run the LoD chain for the rest of my life and *still* have no assurance I'll ever get what I want...

[kaobang]

I'm in favor of a way to get a sort of progression while farming for epic.

The current system is too luck based and friend/guild to run it with.
If you solo on EH/EN your chance is even worst.

It's hard to talk about difficulty / work / reward. We are all different.
Some people has the chance to run it on elite in 5 minute (gear/friends) and several times a week, others not.
Who worked harder, used more skill ?

I would suggest a system to get blank fragment of seal and shard on completion.
The number of fragments depending on difficulty setting.
Then use a barter box to trade those blank fragment for the seal/shard you want.
I'll say about 20 runs in epic hard should net an epic item (a bit like shroud).

I'm against the 20 completion list system, because it force us to it and remove our choice of TR when we want.