It's time for Shard/Seal trade-ins for Ebberon epics

[Zoda]

I don't think that's a good idea. They already presented great ways in the form of commendation gear/MOTU loot to get new toons started, and seeing every single blue bar running around with eROSS, and everyone with multiple eWolf Whistles and such would make me quit the game in about 5 minutes as one who kept all his toons on timer as much as I could for both eadq 1 and 2 pre MOTU and actually worked to have those things (or lets say ppl who had to do 100+ VON runs to get their SOS shard).

[Mryal]

I don't think that's a good idea. They already presented great ways in the form of commendation gear/MOTU loot to get new toons started, and seeing every single blue bar running around with eROSS, and everyone with multiple eWolf Whistles and such would make me quit the game in about 5 minutes as one who kept all his toons on timer as much as I could for both eadq 1 and 2 pre MOTU and actually worked to have those things (or lets say ppl who had to do 100+ VON runs to get their SOS shard).

Thats exactly why shards and seals beign unbound is better than this trade in idea, would keep the rarity of the seals that are well, supposed to be rare.How hard it is to get any epic item of the new content? Its not, you can trade them with your guildies, buy them from someone else.Scrolls used to be virtualy the only actual tradeable thing in DDO that you could actualy spend plat on, now 90% of scrolls are useless.But theres new content items to trade for.

If the new content items are all unbound, why are the old ones bound?
Hasnt it become obvious even by turbine that this mechanic fails?

[DeafeningWhisper]

Thats exactly why shards and seals beign unbound is better than this trade in idea, would keep the rarity of the seals that are well, supposed to be rare.How hard it is to get any epic item of the new content? Its not, you can trade them with your guildies, buy them from someone else.Scrolls used to be virtualy the only actual tradeable thing in DDO that you could actualy spend plat on, now 90% of scrolls are useless.But theres new content items to trade for.

If the new content items are all unbound, why are the old ones bound?
Hasnt it become obvious even by turbine that this mechanic fails?

Actually if we want to be logical the whole completed item should drop on epic in old content and be BTC on equip, I'll settle for a trade-in system thou.

[DeafeningWhisper]

I don't think that's a good idea. They already presented great ways in the form of commendation gear/MOTU loot to get new toons started, and seeing every single blue bar running around with eROSS, and everyone with multiple eWolf Whistles and such would make me quit the game in about 5 minutes as one who kept all his toons on timer as much as I could for both eadq 1 and 2 pre MOTU and actually worked to have those things (or lets say ppl who had to do 100+ VON runs to get their SOS shard).

I have over 200 runs of a whole chain and a single item I want to show for it, do I qualify in your "actually worked to have those things"?

Trade-in won't work unless you *have* shards/seal to trade-in, those shards didn't drop from WW on casual, they dropped from epic content.

The festivault miracle gave whole guilds finished epics and you still stayed, I don't think people getting what they worked for would be so wrong...

[Dolphious]

Thats exactly why shards and seals beign unbound is better than this trade in idea, would keep the rarity of the seals that are well, supposed to be rare.How hard it is to get any epic item of the new content? Its not, you can trade them with your guildies, buy them from someone else.Scrolls used to be virtualy the only actual tradeable thing in DDO that you could actualy spend plat on, now 90% of scrolls are useless.But theres new content items to trade for.

If the new content items are all unbound, why are the old ones bound?
Hasnt it become obvious even by turbine that this mechanic fails?

Yeah, unbound shards/seals is a good idea.

[Symerith]

Hell pre-U14 we ran Eclaw in about 10 minutes (solo/duo east, solo/duo west, group up for North and then 1 minute for endfight.

Made me laugh.

Can shorthand deeps in 5 minutes. GUARANTEED SHARD DROP from deeps. ~1/50 chance of being shard u want.

It's not a guaranteed shard drop, I'd say about 75% chance to drop a shard on EH, even less on EN. Because I seriously doubt anyone is going to be farming it on EE, solo his own side and do it all within 5 minutes. EH is really really easy, my solo runs average 20 minutes. Let's be realistic, the speed run record is 4 minutes for Epic deeps with a full group of fvs/air sorcs (no opts - pots used.) Sure, we got EDs now but yeah, I doubt the average gamer will do it within 5 min demon included).

But that's besides the point.

In any MMO, grind keeps us playing. By no means would I want to get everything easy, because then, as a powergamer, I'd be done with the game fast.

Players want less grind, turbine wants more grind to keep players playing.

Let's not forget we all can now :
- solo or shortman everything. No time spent waiting for a full group. EH is a joke, do EN or even EC if you can't be bothered to find a group.
- repeat it as many times as we want. No more timers! Heck, we even have bypasses now.
- we have EDs, twists and more feats. Toons have become way too powerful..
- finally there are items quite easy to acquire now like the eveningstar trade in.

The ONLY thing people should be complaining about is why we have super good/super easy items to acquire and not so good/super hard items to acquire.
IMO it's all about balance. Someone mentionned that example so I'll stick with it although there are many others... On the one hand, we have the Thornlord, a bow that takes months to acquire, the shard is extremely rare and the bow isn't as good as it used to be. On the other hand, we have the Pinion, which you should most likely get within 20 completions. Sure it's a grind, but at least you are SURE that one day or the other you'll get it. If you have the time, you can even get your 20 completions in a week.

[voodoogroves]

The ONLY thing people should be complaining about is why we have super good/super easy items to acquire and not so good/super hard items to acquire.
IMO it's all about balance. Someone mentionned that example so I'll stick with it although there are many others... On the one hand, we have the Thornlord, a bow that takes months to acquire, the shard is extremely rare and the bow isn't as good as it used to be. On the other hand, we have the Pinion, which you should most likely get within 20 completions. Sure it's a grind, but at least you are SURE that one day or the other you'll get it. If you have the time, you can even get your 20 completions in a week.

This.


We don't mind grind, if there's a reasonable goal in sight and it seems worth it.

- Hard to get, but poor gear.
- Too easy to get, better gear.
- Gear that's irrationally odd to farm (the Lords of Dust chain and seals, for instance.

Those things bug us.


I *suspect* old epic gear (and quests) will get re-vamped, simply as it becomes a way to sell those packs again to players who have come on in the expansion time period. Vets may need to acquire the new gear, or have an upgrade path. Imagine moving the Fens set to ML21 or 22, +7 stats, etc. and adding a slot. Imagine moving DQ, VoN, etc. raid loot to ML 24 and +8s.


It will not stay obsolete.

[Dolphious]

- repeat it as many times as we want. No more timers! Heck, we even have bypasses now.

Can people please stop repeating this inaccurate claim? Ransack limits the times per week you can farm an epic quest to exactly the same number of times as you could run it before u14. Yes, it's easier to schedule now as you can run them all at once if you're into that kind of thing, but this claim people keep making that there's no restriction on how many times you can farm a quest is pure BS.

[Symerith]

Can people please stop repeating this inaccurate claim? Ransack limits the times per week you can farm an epic quest to exactly the same number of times as you could run it before u14. Yes, it's easier to schedule now as you can run them all at once if you're into that kind of thing, but this claim people keep making that there's no restriction on how many times you can farm a quest is pure BS.

First, epics have become extremely easy.
Second, you can run them solo, whenever you want, without having to wait (very convenient for anyone that can't play an hour every night to run his epic).
Third, you can repeat it as many times as you want until you can ransack.
Fourth, guess what you have alts.
Last, I wansn't even talking about epic quests by "bypasses", I meant raids. You can do what... 3 times the same raid a week? Well now you can do it 20 times if you wish, 40 if you do nothing but play DDO.

I understand that change might have had less impact on a minority but for most of us it's a great change.

When I'm farming something, I'll do rotations with 3-boxes. I have 3 toons at cap, so thats 3x7x3 = 63. Usually, within 63 pulls, I have what I'm after. If I don't, then I'll just buy it.

Personnally, I work on weeks so my play time is reduced, but on saturday or sunday, I can play nearly all day so being able to get 63 pulls instead of 9 is great.

[Ivan_Milic]

A really dumb idea.

Epic claw set is one of the EASIEST sets get. I definitely have at least 3 full epic claw sets and probably a couple spare shard/seal sets in the bank.

And these were farmed pre U14 with "real" epics, not easy mode Destiny EN/EH epics that you can finish in about 5 minutes tops. Hell pre-U14 we ran Eclaw in about 10 minutes (solo/duo east, solo/duo west, group up for North and then 1 minute for endfight.

What's so hard about 5minutes x 50runs = 250 minutes = 4 hours? That's less than the time it takes to farm a ML24 Adamantine Cloak of the dragon/bear/wolf.

Also you freely admit that you're getting XP for the runs on your "destinies". That's something we didnt even get pre U14.

My advice to you is, improve your play, or the players you group with.
You're complaining that you haven't gotten your Eclaw set in about 4 hours of gameplay, even 8 hours if you were twice as slow as most players.

You forgot about ransack and luck?

[Naramsin]

I don't think that's a good idea. They already presented great ways in the form of commendation gear/MOTU loot to get new toons started, and seeing every single blue bar running around with eROSS, and everyone with multiple eWolf Whistles and such would make me quit the game in about 5 minutes as one who kept all his toons on timer as much as I could for both eadq 1 and 2 pre MOTU and actually worked to have those things (or lets say ppl who had to do 100+ VON runs to get their SOS shard).

I think you implicitly raised one of the issues with attempts to reduce the grind. Most Eberron epic items have lost their luster (not to mention those that never really had any) in light of what is now available, but others remain extremely coveted. A one-size-fits-all approach to Eberron epic drop rates (or other mechanism) would indeed bring about some imbalance. It would probably be safer to adjust drop rates to match an item's worth* or adjust items so that they provide an incentive that corresponds to the grind.

I didn't notice the change happen, but I stopped caring about many of the shinies I was once after. Looking through my bag yesterday, I noticed I had shard-seal-scroll sets for... at least a 3-piece abishai set, claw set, a couple of utility items I had been chasing? Why haven't I made these items? They were the bright shiny beacon that kept me interested as I ran each quest as soon as I was off timer.

Now I only seem to be running this content for XP and to hang out with guildies. And, apparently, I'm barely paying attention to what goes inside my bags except to make sure nobody else wants it.

Surely there is something we can do to make the interest/rewards of running old Eberron epics commensurate with the grind or with FR equivalents? I liked the idea of additional upgrades to old epic items that was hinted at by MRMechMan, and maybe some drop rate tweaking or trade-in option is in order, as long as the relative value of items is considered.

* This could use some serious player input (nice suggestions were made)... I don't think players and devs quite see eye-to-eye on what is phat lewtz.

[DeafeningWhisper]

I think you implicitly raised one of the issues with attempts to reduce the grind. Most Eberron epic items have lost their luster (not to mention those that never really had any) in light of what is now available, but others remain extremely coveted. A one-size-fits-all approach to Eberron epic drop rates (or other mechanism) would indeed bring about some imbalance. It would probably be safer to adjust drop rates to match an item's worth* or adjust items so that they provide an incentive that corresponds to the grind.

I didn't notice the change happen, but I stopped caring about many of the shinies I was once after. Looking through my bag yesterday, I noticed I had shard-seal-scroll sets for... at least a 3-piece abishai set, claw set, a couple of utility items I had been chasing? Why haven't I made these items? They were the bright shiny beacon that kept me interested as I ran each quest as soon as I was off timer.

Now I only seem to be running this content for XP and to hang out with guildies. And, apparently, I'm barely paying attention to what goes inside my bags except to make sure nobody else wants it.

Surely there is something we can do to make the interest/rewards of running old Eberron epics commensurate with the grind or with FR equivalents? I liked the idea of additional upgrades to old epic items that was hinted at by MRMechMan, and maybe some drop rate tweaking or trade-in option is in order, as long as the relative value of items is considered.

* This could use some serious player input (nice suggestions were made)... I don't think players and devs quite see eye-to-eye on what is phat lewtz.

Feathers commented that epic augments would get an upgrade in U17, no specifics but it does bring hope.

[Naramsin]

Feathers commented that epic augments would get an upgrade in U17, no specifics but it does bring hope.

Indeed, indeed. I forgot about that, thanks! I had in mind something like the tiers of challenge items (perhaps with ML raise from 20) and I'm probably not the first to think so, but augments could be an interesting twist. Not sure it will still make a 100s of completions / 1 year of wait worth it for players (especially if there has indeed been a mentality shift vs. grind with changes to epics, as other posters have mentioned)... but either way, I'm happy to hear Eberron epics will get some love.

[Dolphious]

When I'm farming something, I'll do rotations with 3-boxes..

So the current level of grind is completely balanced and reasonable as long as you triple box? Interesting, another data point suggesting that this might not be the game for me.

[Ivan_Milic]

No it isnt,I got seals,shards and scrolls to make 3 eagas,eclaw,not even 1 item.
Did them the same amount of time.

[Indoran]

you know... I have 5 well geared toons that grinded the hell out of ToD (gilmara 83 runs for example), Adq, Shroud (over 320 runs total), VoD, Evon6, etc...

And I would like to see this... why not? because I don't want ppl to get the cool stuff I grinded to get? That's nonsense... new cool stuff coming... lets have the chance to turn in shards and seal just like desert scrolls.

/signed

[BOgre]

Grind/Time-sink is a necessary party of any mmo. Lotteries are not.

I can understand the need to spend x number of hours to acquire a certain 'rare' item, but the possibility of 'never' acquiring said item is unfair and most definitely detracts from the fun of the game.

Ideally a loot mechanic similar to House C challenges (but with 'fixed' ing drop rates, as today's are ludicrous) seems like the best solution so far. In the meantime, scroll trade-in and 20th completion Shard/Seal lists makes perfect sense.

Keep in mind that even the base item can be nearly impossible to get. 2 years for my base Thornlord (dropped this morning). May never see a torc in my lifetime... You get the idea.

Give us incentive to run more content, rather than mindlessly grind to ransack day after day.

[goodspeed]

If people don't want to run quests for certain gear than they don't have to, it's as simple as that. I'm not saying drop rates are perfect but I don't see a reason to make things easier for people because a few people can't get what they need or it takes a long time to get.

P.S : I took my advice a little while ago and got myself 2 claw sets, thanks though.

lol while you at it can you whip up the cure for cancer and rob the devils golden fiddle?

[Cetus]

/signed

I've played epic dq ever since it came out, and ransacked it for the past 6-7 weeks with 8 toons or so to get a single seal. Still no luck, and I'd like to have the darn thing before U17's augment system change.

Where's the fairness there? I ran this just as much as anyone, just incredibly unlucky.

[Carpone]

While I support a 3:1 seal/shard exchange like what was implemented for desert scrolls, it will never happen. Devs don't want everyone running around with an Epic Sword of Shadows or Epic Ring of Spell Storing. If they did, drop rates would have been increased long ago. It's sad that development work went into creating items that have such a low drop rate that they might as well not exist. It's counterproductive to everyone.

DDO's seal/shard/scroll system is the worst 'crafting' system in any MMO I've played. That's after crafting nearly every item I've set me eyes on, including 3 Claw sets, 2 eSoS, 4 Abishai sets and pre-exchange Epic Marilith Chain and Epic Staff of Arcane Power. Epic Thornlord, Epic Wolf Whistle, Epic Bow of the Silver Flame and eRoSS shards still elude me after hundreds of completions each.