Thinking of making a Sorc and need some advice.

[Xunnar]

It would be a first life, probably Human and I have 32 point builds.
I thought I would start it as a fire savant because I read that it's better for leveling until around level 15'ish, then switch to ice or lightning savants.
The thing I'm worried about is that it would take a long time to fully re-spec my spell list to match the new savant enhancements.
I'd be literally useless to groups for weeks until I'd finished switching out spells one at a time every 3 days.
Is there no way to make it go faster?
Should I just tough it out and start as the savant path I would eventually end up with?
The builds and guides I've found for specific savants has a spell progression list and when to switch old spells for newer ones but a lot of them overlap at some levels.
Like switching out 2 spells at level 7 for instance, I don't expect to be level 7 for over 6 days let one one day.

If it gets to be too much I guess I'll just stick with my Wizard and Barbarian where things are simple.

[BladeTricks]

Go Warforged to self heal if you have it unlocked. It doesn't get amazing until Reconstruct at level 12, but until then, it is still much cheaper on your finances than drinking CSW pots.

Fire Savant is an excellent choice, you will dominate as early as level 6 when you can grab Fireball and the 1st tier of your prestige.

If you want to switch prestige around the time you finish Necro 4 and step in to the Vale, I would suggest getting a blood of dragons from Argonnessen favor (there is some unbound blood of dragons but they may be expensive...?). If you can't acquire enough Argonnessen favors, going Acid Savant all the way from 1 to 20 is also is solid choice. Very few immunities and you get your awesome AoE spells at level 6 and 8 (i.e. very early).

Good luck and have fun!

[wax_on_wax_off]

Get some dragonblood from Gianthold Tor or any quest with a dragon in it or for 75 agents of argo favour, let's you swap spells as much as you like for 30 minutes (bound to account).

I'd suggest Earth Savant though. Earth/fire spec until you finish with Orchard and then swap to Earth/cold after that. The extra HP and the reliable CC from web (choose spell focus: conj instead of evo) and the SLA is really excellent.

Warforged, Half-elf (paladin dilettante) or human are all compelling racial choices. Human is certainly nice as you can go 18 con/18 cha and have enough skill points for Concentration and UMD (add a +2 int tome for 1 tumble and some balance). Alternatively, the free wand access and bonus saves from helf does almost as much for survivability as WF self healing IMO so if you have a +3 con and int tome you can decrease con to 17 and increase int to 11 to get the above skills and maybe have some points left over to max balance or something else.

Make sure you get greater spell pen, others will disagree with me but the flexibility to provide crowd control in EH content is much more fun that being a 1 trick pony just blasting away watching while mobs eat your party up.

[muny21]

I have been playing a sorc for about two years now, my favorite class even before savants came out, and from my experience there are a few things you should know.

1. You can get a dragon blood and swap out any and all spells you like for an hour. Easily obtainable through GH favor. It is the first tier of Agents Of Argo.

2. Since you are a first lifer I would go water savant. Air requires a lot of gear and past lives as most of the spells are reflex base and, no matter what BS someone may try to tell you, you are not going to be landing those spells on raid bosses on difficulties over norm as a first lifer. (Maybe epic destinies have changed this, since my sorc had many past lives behind him I would not know if it is possible this way.)

3. You were on the right track with going fire savant. I usually stay fire until vale, mostly after I am done farming running with the devils because the ghaeles and the bralani are immune to electric. The end fight is ok for electric but immune to fire. But I feel it is more important and a tougher fight with the mobs in the quest than dealing with the end fight which is not so tough.

4. My feat list recommendations, this will vary by preference:
1)Maximize
2)Empower
3)Heighten
4)Spell Focus: Evocation
5)Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
6)Toughness
7)Mental Toughness
8)Spell Penetration

Note: I believe 1-6 are a most important as a first life inexperienced sorc. 7 and 8 are just suggestions. My feats do not resemble this list as I am necro speced and do not take toughness.

As for enhancements max out frost manipulation and storm manipulation. Also max out all crit chances for cold and crit multipliers for cold. Put maybe one put of each in charged spellcasting and deadly shocks. For the rest max out dragonblood for sp, tier III of sorcerer cha, toughness, and capstone. I also recommend putting points into improved empower, maximize, and heighten. Not all sorcs do this but I do. A huge sp pool is worthless if you costs you a ton of sp to cast a spell.

Hope some of my pointers help and good luck.

EDIT: WF is ok but you limit yourself at the cost of a quick self heal. You lose a feat and also lose 2 dc compared to human sorc at max cha. Not worth the trade off unless you put a lot of past lives behind you. You can just as easily heal your self on a human sorc with maxed out UMD.

[goodspeed]

See for sorc I just think the robots a waste. I love every extra feat possible. And with a sorc your already fully gonna umd **** near anything. Especially if you try at it.

As for spells you really don't have to worry to much as theirs really only a select number that you'll be aiming for, and then u'll use them in cycle. For instance from the time you can get them, until the time the vale comes up and makes fire spells worthless, you will use fireball (The clear the room spell especially with delera's and trolls) wall of fire (Your by far absolute max with maximize and empower for mana consurvation and dmg spell) and then probably the fire ray spell that when you hit I think lv 8 or 9 you get 3 rays and then it's just nice to have unmeta'd.

What im getting at is each savent really only has a select number of things you would really cast, mixed with some cc spells like a fog that reduces reflex save, or one that reduced will save when whipping a disco ball.

And if you really want to change everything and anything blood of dragons is available from a few places. One is a favor reward in marketplace, the other can be farmed from the tor chests. I think my sorc has got 7 or 8 in the bank just sitting. I used a couple when I wanted to experiment between acid and fire and air savants at end game.


I found at end game the 2 main savants were water for upfront dmg in spades, and earth for dmg but more kind of controlling the battlefield as it were. Air is ok, but ur gonna want the dc's. Your gonna want a nice good high evo dc to outbeat reflex. Cause reflex is a mother from the time everything seems to have it at lv 10 and up. And fire is, idk it's just a lil underwhelming.

Build wise you'll want standard 18 cha 18 con. I guess you could take a hit to con and toss some into str but why, sure ray of enfeeblement is a pain in the ass at low level, but honestly ur gonna be below lv 10 for maybe a week as the most casual of gamers. On the other hand, come end game your gonna be stacking hp every way possible.

Now spell wise. You'll want your standard dmg spells for the element. BUT the absolute spells you need are stoneskin, and DISPLACEMENT. I cannot stress enough how much displacement means, especially as a caster in the thick of it. It's just as amazing for melee which is why any real TR melee has a slew of GS displacement clickies to make life amazingly easier after lv 11.

Anyway for fire I told you already you'll want fireball, wall of fire and scorching ray. I'd toss in some kind of acid spell as well cause their's a couple things that are immune to fire early on. ooze, blackbone skellies.

For air savent it's really not that hard to choose spells because their are literally so few anyway.

Ice savent is of course niacs the most powerful, then polar ray, the ice sphere, ice storm, frost lance (until you get it as a sla.) and one other I forget which.

Earth is really your choice. You'll have the sla's and earthgrab is your battle control, then it's like a mix of aoe storms, and dots and all that. Short timer'd but like I said it's kind of like a control the battle savent.

Then you'll have your standard cc like finger of death, power word kill, wail of the banshee, WEB (by far your best cc in epics especially with those bloody death knights and even drow) disco ball, and then you'll want I think it's the hypno cc to drop will save which helps with the disco ball, and I think solid fog drops reflex by 5 inside of it. That ones good for aoe spells, and web saves.

Oh and hold monster mass is sometimes useful as well. Your not gonna be the cc guy on epic elite, or prolly not even hard, but you can get the numbers up to be ok on hard and worth while on heroics. However aside from evocation dc's don't bother outside of gear. What I mean is don't waste the feats trying for spell pen, and necro and all that. To few, you'll never get there without god knows how many past lives, and even then u'll end up a mutt. Half cocked at cc and dmg.

Gear wise used to be complex now it's pretty much as simple as can be. Stack the numbers. I'm not sure if clickies mean as much now as they used to. (For instance you wanted a superior inferno clicky no matter what as you leveled. Because it was just that much more dmg. Now I think it increases by 10 or something so no clue how that transfers to dmg. But ***, every bit counts so carry some.)

You of course want to highest power/wizardry/magi available. If your in a guild you'll want the medium or large guild slot to stack more sp. (Medium starts at lv 45, before that is small, and of course the real price large slots are at guild lv 70. The most common medium gives 60 sp, so on a sorc it's gonna be 120 sp.)

[Xunnar]

Thank you very much everyone, I really appreciate all the help.

After reading everything here I've come up with some more questions.

What spells (per level) should I take in each of these ideas?
As well as which would better suit a new player in general, I've been playing for a total time of around a week and my highest character is level 9.

Fire focus until I run into immunes at higher level, then switch to Ice
Same as above but switch to Earth
Or start Earth and stay with it
Same as above with Ice

I'll be Human, go 18/18 for Cha and Con.
I don't have a +2 Int tome and don't have enough money to buy one though, is it very important to have one by level 7 for a 3rd skill?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Thank you very much everyone, I really appreciate all the help.

After reading everything here I've come up with some more questions.

What spells (per level) should I take in each of these ideas?
As well as which would better suit a new player in general, I've been playing for a total time of around a week and my highest character is level 9.

Fire focus until I run into immunes at higher level, then switch to Ice
Same as above but switch to Earth
Or start Earth and stay with it
Same as above with Ice

I'll be Human, go 18/18 for Cha and Con.
I don't have a +2 Int tome and don't have enough money to buy one though, is it very important to have one by level 7 for a 3rd skill?

Pretty important yes, possible to save up for one by 7 if you make an effort or start with 1 less con and a bit extra int (round off with a +1 int time at level 3 which are cheap.

Hard to say exactly what spells are best let's see
1: Acid Spray/Burning hands combo, exp retreat, night shield
2: Scorching Ray/Melfs combo, web, resist energy, knock
3: Acid Blast/Fireball combo, displace, haste, rage
4: Acid Rain/Firewall combo, dimension door, burning blood
5: Protection from Elements, Niacs Biting Cold, Teleport
6: Disintegrate, Circle of Death, Mass Suggestion
7: Delayed Blast Fireball, Finger of Death, Otto's Disco Ball
8: Black Dragon Bolt

Then swap out fire spells for cold ...
Probably some mistakes here, just went from memory. I'd probably take ddoor before others just because I like to do the quests that need it at that level for better xp.

[Xunnar]

Pretty important yes, possible to save up for one by 7 if you make an effort or start with 1 less con and a bit extra int (round off with a +1 int time at level 3 which are cheap.

Hard to say exactly what spells are best let's see
1: Acid Spray/Burning hands combo, exp retreat, night shield
2: Scorching Ray/Melfs combo, web, resist energy, knock
3: Acid Blast/Fireball combo, displace, haste, rage
4: Acid Rain/Firewall combo, dimension door, burning blood
5: Protection from Elements, Niacs Biting Cold, Teleport
6: Disintegrate, Circle of Death, Mass Suggestion
7: Delayed Blast Fireball, Finger of Death, Otto's Disco Ball
8: Black Dragon Bolt

Then swap out fire spells for cold ...
Probably some mistakes here, just went from memory. I'd probably take ddoor before others just because I like to do the quests that need it at that level for better xp.

Taking one from Con and adding one to Int making it 9 for a +1Int tome leaves me with 2 points to spend.
As for the spells with -combo did you mean they're both good to take or that I SHOULD take both and use them in tandem?
Will 18/18 be fine without Int tomes for a while? Because I only have around 20k plat and even a +1Int tome would completely break my bank, if I can even get one that cheap.

Other than that, I've got it like this for level 1.
Human
18/18 Cha-Con
Max Concentration
Max UMD
Feats: SF Evocation (change to conj after respec to earth?) and Toughness (next three will be empower/max/extend metas)
Spells: Burning Hands, Exp Retreat

Edit: also wondering if Force of Personality is worth taking and pushing Toughness back until later for it

[wax_on_wax_off]

Taking one from Con and adding one to Int making it 9 for a +1Int tome leaves me with 2 points to spend.
As for the spells with -combo did you mean they're both good to take or that I SHOULD take both and use them in tandem?
Will 18/18 be fine without Int tomes for a while? Because I only have around 20k plat and even a +1Int tome would completely break my bank, if I can even get one that cheap.

Other than that, I've got it like this for level 1.
Human
18/18 Cha-Con
Max Concentration
Max UMD
Feats: SF Evocation (change to conj after respec to earth?) and Toughness (next three will be empower/max/extend metas)
Spells: Burning Hands, Exp Retreat

Edit: also wondering if Force of Personality is worth taking and pushing Toughness back until later for it

Reducing con to 17 will give 3 points to spend allowing int of 11. Definitely get a +1 int tome at level 3 if you can, should be under 10k on AH or maybe post a thread on forums/server marketplace or ask in trade channels.

Combo means in tandem for the first/third/fourth level spells as a generalisation. Definitely want the first combo ASAP - even before exp retreat, just use clicky/scroll instead - then just add the rest as you go.

For feats I'd go:
Max/emp
Toughness
Heighten (for SLA)
Spell focus: conj
Greater spell focus: conj
Spell pen
Greater spell pen

Idea with taking max/emp straight up is to have 2 of the same spell on your bar, 1 with meta magics on and 1 with them off, then just try to figure out the correct situation for each option. At 6 when you get your first SLA you apply all the meta magics for free making it important to have them all available (including heighten).

Edit: defenses are important! Look for or ask someone to craft you an invulnerability robe!

[Xunnar]

Reducing con to 17 will give 3 points to spend allowing int of 11. Definitely get a +1 int tome at level 3 if you can, should be under 10k on AH or maybe post a thread on forums/server marketplace or ask in trade channels.

Combo means in tandem for the first/third/fourth level spells as a generalisation. Definitely want the first combo ASAP - even before exp retreat, just use clicky/scroll instead - then just add the rest as you go.

For feats I'd go:
Max/emp
Toughness
Heighten (for SLA)
Spell focus: conj
Greater spell focus: conj
Spell pen
Greater spell pen

Idea with taking max/emp straight up is to have 2 of the same spell on your bar, 1 with meta magics on and 1 with them off, then just try to figure out the correct situation for each option. At 6 when you get your first SLA you apply all the meta magics for free making it important to have them all available (including heighten).

Edit: defenses are important! Look for or ask someone to craft you an invulnerability robe!

Alright, thanks. I'll try getting a tome but I just checked on here on Argonnessan and all the +1 tomes are 20-40k plat (+2's are over 150k).
And I don't have any friends that play or met any in-game yet, no guild either so I dunno about getting one of those robes.
Got nothing against re-rolling on a new server if this one's got bad prices or something.

Edit: what should I spend these extra skill points on? with 11 Int I have 4 more and with the tome I'll have even more, 1 into tumble and then jump+haggle? maybe diplomacy?

[Hutoth]

Based on my last sorc life (IIRC)...

Heroic Feats:
1 - toughness
1 - force of personality (Swap candidate at 17.4 for SP, or anytime for SF:UMD if you can't hit the magic number for heal scrolls)
3 - Maximise (dmg is good)
6 - Extend (long displace haste rage is good)
9 - Empower (more dmg)
12 - Spell Focus (req for savant II)
15 - Heighten
18 - Spell Pen

Epic Feats:
no firm opinion, but more Spell Pen and more hit points are both good options. More Spell Focus too.

Skills:
UMD 11
Tumble 1
Concentration 23

Savant:
Last life I went to 20 on Acid. Did ridiculous amounts of dmg with Acid Rain.
Eventually got jealous of air savants flying around and stunning everything. Switched to Air and became addicted.
Kept cold maxed under both schemes and took fire damage boosts too for mobs immune to lekky and cold/ vulnerable to firewall/ DBF/ meteors swarm etc.

NB: I'm not a number cruncher - the "one true build" might not be this. But I liked it.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Alright, thanks. I'll try getting a tome but I just checked on here on Argonnessan and all the +1 tomes are 20-40k plat (+2's are over 150k).
And I don't have any friends that play or met any in-game yet, no guild either so I dunno about getting one of those robes.
Got nothing against re-rolling on a new server if this one's got bad prices or something.

Edit: what should I spend these extra skill points on? with 11 Int I have 4 more and with the tome I'll have even more, 1 into tumble and then jump+haggle? maybe diplomacy?

With 11 int you'll have 3 skills (concentration, UMD, balance). With a +1 int tome you can max out diplomacy as well. Always get 1 rank in tumble (2 points on a Sorc) so you can do commando rolls.

[Xunnar]

With 11 int you'll have 3 skills (concentration, UMD, balance). With a +1 int tome you can max out diplomacy as well. Always get 1 rank in tumble (2 points on a Sorc) so you can do commando rolls.

2 points into tumble puts me from -1 to 0 though, 4 points for 1 then?

[wax_on_wax_off]

2 points into tumble puts me from -1 to 0 though, 4 points for 1 then?

Nah with 1 rank the ability is "enabled" so you can get to a positive modifier with a dex item or skill boost.

[Xunnar]

Nah with 1 rank the ability is "enabled" so you can get to a positive modifier with a dex item or skill boost.

I see, thanks!

[Tid12]

I will go against everyone and say:

Stay Fire 'till 20. With a back up of either Acid or Lightning (my personal choice) of course.

The only immunities you will encounter are some Devils in the vale and that's it. And they are only in a couple of quests, e.g: Running with the Devils, (2 Orthons, 1 Barbazu as red Named, found at the very end of the quest), Ritual sacrifice (1 red named Orthon, some at the Portal spawn and some mobs at the end of the quest), Rainbow in the dark.

You can easily throw a couple of Maximized-Empowered- Chain lightning/Ball Lightning/Ice storm and be done with them. And yes, I've done this personally and works great.

This way, you won't have troubles to Respec your Enhancements (and feats at cap) and troubles to get the Blood of Dragons. If you plan on doing shavarath (not worth the exp), then yeah, I agree with everyone else to respec to either Acid/Ice/Lightning. But imho it's not worth the hassle while leveling.

Also, with the End-game moved to FR, Fire Savant is viable even at end-game. Caught in the Web raid has nothing immune to Fire like all the quests in the Forgotten Realms (might forget some mobs). Of course you will ALWAYS need a secondary element for those quests with Fire-immune mobs thou.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I will go against everyone and say:

Stay Fire 'till 20. With a back up of either Acid or Lightning (my personal choice) of course.

The only immunities you will encounter are some Devils in the vale and that's it. And they are only in a couple of quests, e.g: Running with the Devils, (2 Orthons, 1 Barbazu as red Named, found at the very end of the quest), Ritual sacrifice (1 red named Orthon, some at the Portal spawn and some mobs at the end of the quest), Rainbow in the dark.

You can easily throw a couple of Maximized-Empowered- Chain lightning/Ball Lightning/Ice storm and be done with them. And yes, I've done this personally and works great.

This way, you won't have troubles to Respec your Enhancements (and feats at cap) and troubles to get the Blood of Dragons. If you plan on doing shavarath (not worth the exp), then yeah, I agree with everyone else to respec to either Acid/Ice/Lightning. But imho it's not worth the hassle while leveling.

Also, with the End-game moved to FR, Fire Savant is viable even at end-game. Caught in the Web raid has nothing immune to Fire like all the quests in the Forgotten Realms (might forget some mobs). Of course you will ALWAYS need a secondary element for those quests with Fire-immune mobs thou.

I just don't think that fire is fun. Any sorcerer can nuke, it's what else you do that makes the character stand out and earth is the best for CC while losing only minute amounts of nuking power and often in front when other elements face resistances or high saves (or both!). Seriously, web+acid rain and you'll never go back, suited me fine low level and suited me fine in elite Amrath.