Improve the warforged; melee damage improvements.

[Varashad]

Currently warforged are basically agreed to be the worst choice for most classes. They do decently as arcanes and favored souls, but are low tier for everything else. The only class that they do above average as is a sorcerer. This is odd to me, as they are a p2p race, and a fairly expensive one at that. Currently, in DDO, they get the following bonuses: +2 con, resistance to disease and poison, and immunity to level drain.

All of this is quite nice, except for their penalties being quite stiff; -2 wisdom and charisma, and -50% to positive healing spells. This is game breaking for this race. The penalties to healing make it difficult, if not impossible, to be useful as a melee toon, requiring, even with max healing amp enhancements, twice as many heals as a non-warforged. Add in the humiliation of taking away their immunity to disease and poison, and warforged is currently the race I regret buying more than anything else in DDO.

So, I decided... Why not buff this race who has been so disgraced? I did a bit of digging on the internet, and found, to my surprise, this.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Warforg...283.5e_Race%29

+2 strength is a racial characteristic of warforged in PnP. This is not implemented in DDO, which strikes me as odd, as warforged do get power attack enhancements similar to half-orcs and barbarians. This leads to my suggestion; Give all warforged +2 strength for free, 2 enhancements for +1 strength(costing 2 and 4 AP respectively), and two tiers of great weapon damage(+2 and +4 damage for +2 and +4 AP respectively) similar to what the half-orc has.

This would put warforged on the same DPS level as half-orcs, making a currently worthless race back into a completely awesome one. Giving them strength enhancements(+2 at character creation, and +2 enhancements) along with their constitution enhancements, will make warforged viable for almost anything melee related. The two handed weapon damage bonuses will make them solid choices for melee casters as well.

Their primary weakness is their healing amp, thus keeping dwarves, humans and half-orcs 100% usable. I personally would still use any of those three aforementioned races before a warforged simply due to the healing amp issue. This is the main balancing factor on a warforged to keep them from being over powered.

Really this suggestion doesn't transform warforged into an all powerful juggernaut of destruction, replacing half-orcs as the master race, it simply gives us more variety. +2 con equivalents to +20 hp and +1 fort save at cap. It is by no means a significant bonus, even if it is usable and nice. The healing amp penalty keeps them fair.

So, ladies and gentlemen of the forums; how do you feel about these suggested changes? Good? Too powerful?

[scoobmx]

yes, it's a fine idea, and no, it won't happen.

historically there has to be around 10+ simultaneous threads full of teeth-gnashing about warforged for there to be changes

[CaptainSpacePony]

I mostly advocate the changes so body type is a free feat chosen at lvl 1.

But I agree, WF are the worst melees, DESPITE Fighter being their "preferred" class.

[Tshober]

Currently warforged are basically agreed to be the worst choice for most classes. They do decently as arcanes and favored souls, but are low tier for everything else. The only class that they do above average as is a sorcerer.

Artificer?

Practically every artificer I see is WF. No other race dominates a class like WF does artificer. The only things that come remotely close are h-orc barbarians.

[Mastikator]

And apparently, both Adamantite AND Mithral body feats should give DR 5/Adamantite, not 2/Adamantite. What's worse is that in PnP DR always stacks when it applies, what a slap in the face :/

[Therrias]

What's worse is that in PnP DR always stacks when it applies, what a slap in the face :/

False.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm

If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.

[QuantumFX]

+2 strength is a racial characteristic of warforged in PnP. This is not implemented in DDO, which strikes me as odd, as warforged do get power attack enhancements similar to half-orcs and barbarians.

That’s what happens when you quote random internet sites instead of actual WotC source material. Warforged do not get +2 STR in P&P. That variant is Homebrew rules. (It even states it at the bottom of the page.)

Here’s a better page for you to check out: LINK

Now, something that I would suggest instead is base the racial stat enhancements off of the 4.0 options. (Obviously this would entail exclusivity. So they would only be able to take +2 in a single stat) This would give forged +2 to STR, CON, or INT and Half-orc +2 STR, DEX or CON

Add in the humiliation of taking away their immunity to disease and poison,

The problem with this isn’t the idea, it’s the implementation. When Turbine made this change they apparently made every poison in the game into a supernatural poison. If we actually saw some variation in poison types then it would still be a sizable benefit.

Something I’m surprised you didn’t touch on is the lack of variety and PRR for various body feats. (Edit: And the fact that forged actually have to *pay* for a body feat.) For variety, we’re missing a “medium” body feat and a “Livewood” body feat for druids. For PRR, well, it’s completely missing and having warforged get more would actually fit considering how powerful DR is in P&P (Compared to DDO.) That could be your melee niche: “I may not recover faster, but I damage slower.”

[Falco_Easts]

Personally I would like to see a range of enhancements opened up on WF to allow some customisation.

Spiked armour - 3 tier
You have paid to have an artificer meld damaging spikes to your body. While dealing damage to those that strike you in melee they also restrict your movement. Each tier adds a stacking 1d6 thorn guard affect but decreases your reflex save by 1.

Buffed Body - 3 tier
You take immaculate care of you armour plating, polishing it at every opportunity.
Tier 1 grants the armour affect Command affect. Tier 2 grants 1d8 light guard. Tier 3 grants radiance guard.

Darkened body - 3 tier
You methodically apply darkening products to your body to aid you in blending into the shadows. Adds Shadow (+5 hide)/Improved Shadow(+10 hide)/Greater Shadow(+15 hide)

One body - 3 tier
You have had an artificer shape your body to give you complete control of your melee weapon, so much so it becomes part of you.
+1 to attack & +3 to damage at each tier.
Weapons can only be changed in taverns or after shrining, even if broken. The same area's Wizzies can change spells.

Faith in the Lord of Blades - 3 tier (Only availabe, to Divine Classes)
Your prayers are for the chosen race, not the breathers. Each tier substitues 15% of healing for repair "damage" when cast.
i.e without enhancement you heal fleshies for 100% & WF for 50%
Tier one that becomes 85% for fleshies, 65% for WF
Tier two that becomes 70% for fleshies, 80% for WF
Tier three that becomes 55% for fleshies, 95% for WF

Physical substitution. 3 tier
With the aid of a skilled artificer you may gain +1 to any of the 3 physical abilities (STR, CON & DEX) for a penalty to one of the other physical stats.
Tier 1 is a -1 penalty, tier 2 a stacking -2 penalty & tier 3 a stocking -3 penalty.
You could gain +3 to any of the 3 stat's but would need to loose -6 from the others, even if a 3/3 split.

You get the idea.

[redspecter23]

I'm reserving judgement until after the enhancement pass in the hopes that all races receive a good polishing and WF more than most. I have a feeling we might be seeing specific weapon specializations based on race with WF being very likely to be gaining greatsword bonuses. If the top tier of that, for example, had +1 crit multiplier for greatswords, that alone could put WF in a very good place with ESoS still being king of DPS. I'm sure that many wouldn't mind taking that hit to healing amp if it came with a worthy DPS increase. Half-Orcs with all their non specific bonuses intact could see specialization with greatclubs which adds practically no extra DPS and could serve to even out the races a bit more. Well at any rate, there is so much they could do with the racial enhancements that we could see a very different racial balance a year from now.

[MRMechMan]

For any min/maxer or hardcore gamer, they are the worst racial choice for bard, rogue, cleric, druid, fighter, barb, paladin, ranger. Anything that heals via scrolls, or cure serious/cure crit, or cleric aura, or relies on SF pots/hirelings/real healer.

They make acceptable but not ideal fvs, palemasters and monks. WF fvs are still decent (but most races still better due to amp mattering with massive hp totals), palemasters don't care about amp (but human, halfelf, drow and elf all better really) and monks can get amp class enh to help with the amp issue-and AC/shadow fade/dodge (human, halfelf, halfling, horc still clearly better)

They are top-teir sorcs, archmages and artis. That's it really.

Considering many of the racial enhancements are melee focused, most of them are useless for most WF (sorc/arti/wiz).

Brute fighting...why does the char with the lowest amp EVER want agro?
Great wep fighting...reported broken. Minor even if it worked.
Power attack. The one good one.
Tactics...expensive, and if a monk using fist, are just gaining back from the -2 wis.
Construct thinking/hardiness....+will/fort saves, oh boy.
WF DR...yea that 12 AP for 3 DR, great...
Healers friend...not exactly a selling point, even when fixed finally.
Con enh...6AP for 25 HP...meh
Racial hp...3AP for 10hp, 4AP for 20hp...even more meh.
WF balance/repair....cmon

Compared to halforc/halfelf and the FREE human, it isn't even close. Even dwarves and halflings have better enhancements.

[Caexar]

Well at the core, some of this issue has to do with the deviation that DDO has from the core DnD system concerning the races. Personally I am not in favor of Warforged receiving boosts to their melee damage output as that is the niche for the Half-Orc race. I am all in favor of the Warforged getting boosts to their defensive capabilities such as repealing the nerf they received concerning their immunities and what not.
The problem with that is you begin to tread on the dwarf's domain as they were meant to be the resilient melee combat type of class as well. So where is the balance...

I would propose that not only do we repeal the racial immunity nerfs, but do grant the body type feat for free at creation. Remove Warforged power attack, and great weapon aptitude enhancements and instead grant them 4 separate combat style enhancement lines; sword and shield, two weapon fighting, two handed fighting, and ranged weapon fighting. Each type would grant certain bonuses that would reflect the chosen combat style of that Warforged depending on how many tiers have been invested. Examples:

Sword and Shield

Tier 1: The Warforged gains a +1 to all attacks while using a one handed weapon and a shield. The Warforged also gains stackable energy resistance 5 and a +2 bonus to saves vs. sunder and knockdown effects while blocking with a shield.

Tier 2: The Warforged gains an additional +1 to attacks while using a one handed weapon and a shield. The Warforged also gains a stackable +5% chance to double strike while shield bashing

Tier 3: The Warforged gains an additional +1 to attacks while using a one handed weapon and shield. The Warforged also gains a dodge percentage bonus equal to half of his shields enhancement bonus.

... something long these lines. The bonuses tend to be unique, do not tread on the feet of the PrE's too much,are not game breaking, and will serve to push Warforged towards what they were intended to be in the first place. That is the key factor which I believe is being forgotten; Warforged were created for Warfare and as such should have enhancements that reflect that and set them apart from the other races in execution of it.