Guild Renown Changes

[slarden]

not defensive just saying the same auto invite fear-mongering what ifs is a shameless tactic and unproductive
and that the system in place is great for the majority of guilds 11-1000 members most guilds even the ones complaing are still moving forward not hitting walls or losing levels
so i feel this outcry on how horrible it is is over hyped and unwarranted

The # of guilds with 10 or less members is not small. While I don't have any exact #s I can assure you this is a very significant portion of guilds.

There are plenty of small guilds that stopped moving forward prior to the change and they are still stuck at a level.

[Son_of_the_South]

As an officer from a small manned guild on Sarlona (Legends of Lore, 6 active members, currently level 77 and still leveling) i have to state that all our guild members are really disappointed if current changes will remain permanent.

It looks like the new guild decay rules supports players to be inactive all the time and log on once a month. How can it be fair to all small manned guilds who have been working hard and have been really active to get leveled and remain high level even with spending turbine points on renown elixirs and such? Its just not fair that a 60 manned guild has the same decay as a 6 manned one. Rules like this stimulate guild leaders and recruiters to basically say yes to anyone who wants to join their guild. Players should realize that if they want a high level guild and the benefits that comes with that, they should work for it and not earn that by just logging on once in a while and take everybody who wants in. Where's the challenge in a system like this? Please Turbine, reward those who have been working hard and earned it.

I hope Turbine decides to change back to the old renown system as soon as possible, if not, and we do go back to the old system, i expect lots and lots more complaints from level 85 guilds who just bought a level 85 airship which they are going to loose because they cant keep up with the renown decay as in the old system.

I wish Turbine lots of wisdom in making a correct decision.

Greets in behalf of Legends of Lore,

Cnok

You realise this rant makes you seem rather childish, dont you?

Why isnt it fair that a 60 man guild has the same decay as a 6 man one? What is wrong with recruiting whomever might want to join your guild? You arent really making any logical argument here but rather assumptions based on statements like "not earn that by just logging on once in a while and take everybody who wants in". We have a big guild that often has 15-20 dedicated players on at once and for (at least) a year we stayed at level 63. Since the changes we have cruised to level 65 already.

Thank you for making the right changes Turbine.

[theslimshady]

The # of guilds with 10 or less members is not small. While I don't have any exact #s I can assure you this is a very significant portion of guilds.

There are plenty of small guilds that stopped moving forward prior to the change and they are still stuck at a level.

again i understand that small guilds under 10 members are in need of some kinda attention i even thought my proposal for removing decay for them guilds was a good idea but this attack on large guilds is tiresome at best the idea of comparison values of renown gain is absurd

[McFlay]

not defensive just saying the same auto invite fear-mongering what ifs is a shameless tactic and unproductive

Its not "fear mongering what ifs." It already happened before. It was a stupid, broken system then, and moving back in that direction isn't going to fix things.

[McFlay]

There are plenty of small guilds that stopped moving forward prior to the change and they are still stuck at a level.

Shhhh...facts...stop it. We all know that when comparing large guilds and small guilds we are only allowed to make comparisons to the top .001% of small guilds under the old system.

However, when making comparisons under the new system we are only allowed to talk about small guilds who haven't hit a plateau yet because they most likely haven't even seen level 60 yet.

[Falco_Easts]

just being large does not mean a mass recruiting or spammer guild in anyway and is a common misguided statement the fear induced hysteria that was caused by this is years old and is untrue and unwarrented
the idea that a verysmall guild only has to recruit a few members and stay small and be able to progress forward vrs a large guild who must radically change its core was the surface of this issue
to keep this going on falsehoods is unfair for the genral playing base so just
try and understand that the large guilds needed a restructure of the renown system that for so long caused such a high level of strife and althought this change might not be the greatest for a small minorty of that playing public it has been a great releif to long established large guilds across all the servers so by including anything in a statement about rolling
back to the old system of repression i cannot sign on at all i understand guilds under 10 members at this moment are feeling the pinch but talking about putting it back where almost every one outside that margian felt it is not the answer

Going by your join date you missed the rise of the spammer guilds that happened after the guild update. It did happen, all because it was the easiest way for said guild to cap their membership and gain levels. It was pretty messy. Although one did gain a humourous lesson in making people you don't know well officers.

[theslimshady]

mcflay ---no the old system was broken and only 001 percent found it any good thats why it was fixed to the current awesome system

[theslimshady]

falco east--- again to many make assumption i have multiple accounts like most long time players do
i run the guild that won the astral diamond contest on lammnia during the preveiw of guild ships we was large then even before renown exsisted
most servers have never been bothered by the large guilds on the server its that 001 percent you like to talk about that hide behind guild level prestige and tried to start some false idea that high guild level meant elite and uber

large guilds only asked for releif from having to make all these tough descions on recruitting kicking and renown level walls and in response we have been nothing but compaired with the 001 percent and insulted
i would not dare tell you any facts or numbers on a small guild being i never ran one of em yet for some reason almost every proponet of large guilds is tiny idty bity guild leaders who knows nothing about the internal workings of a large well established guild go figure

[McFlay]

large guilds only asked for releif from having to make all these tough descions on recruitting kicking and renown level walls and in response we have been

lulz you were the one that started comparing yourself to the small handful of guilds that were the exception to the rule, otherwise even under the old decay system you would have been smart enough to realize your big casual guild was still a much, much higher level then smaller casual guilds. I guess you only enjoy the biased comparisons when they support your ideas though.

[slarden]

You realise this rant makes you seem rather childish, dont you?

Why isnt it fair that a 60 man guild has the same decay as a 6 man one? What is wrong with recruiting whomever might want to join your guild? You arent really making any logical argument here but rather assumptions based on statements like "not earn that by just logging on once in a while and take everybody who wants in". We have a big guild that often has 15-20 dedicated players on at once and for (at least) a year we stayed at level 63. Since the changes we have cruised to level 65 already.

Thank you for making the right changes Turbine.

What is the point of attacking him? His point is valid that the new system is not fair.

Decay is ultimately a tax on the people in the guild and not the guild itself since the guild can't earn renown - only players can do that. It makes no sense for a person in one guild to get a tax 10x higher than a person in another guild that is at the same level. After all this is a penalty and not a leveling mechanism.

Many large and small guilds were unable to level under the old system. Under the new system this issue was resolved for all large guilds and not at all for guilds of 10 or less.

The problem with the new system is that their is an unfair penalty mechanism that needs to be addressed. I think getting rid of decay entirely would resolve this issue. As it is now decay was effectively removed as an issue for most large guilds, so why do we need it? It was put in to stop guilds from advancing by growing in the first place. It's time has come and gone - get rid of it.

It's great that your guild is gaining levels fast, but there are many small guilds that never even made it to 60 before hitting a ceiling. Why is it so wrong for those to guilds to get some help.

[Dandonk]

The problem with the new system is that their is an unfair penalty mechanism that needs to be addressed. I think getting rid of decay entirely would resolve this issue. As it is now decay was effectively removed as an issue for most large guilds, so why do we need it? It was put in to stop guilds from advancing by growing in the first place. It's time has come and gone - get rid of it.

Exactly. Since Turbine nolonger seem to think that limiting growth is necessary, why keep it just for small guilds?

[slarden]

falco east--- again to many make assumption i have multiple accounts like most long time players do
i run the guild that won the astral diamond contest on lammnia during the preveiw of guild ships we was large then even before renown exsisted
most servers have never been bothered by the large guilds on the server its that 001 percent you like to talk about that hide behind guild level prestige and tried to start some false idea that high guild level meant elite and uber

large guilds only asked for releif from having to make all these tough descions on recruitting kicking and renown level walls and in response we have been nothing but compaired with the 001 percent and insulted
i would not dare tell you any facts or numbers on a small guild being i never ran one of em yet for some reason almost every proponet of large guilds is tiny idty bity guild leaders who knows nothing about the internal workings of a large well established guild go figure

Have you not seen the continued attacks on small guilds on this thread and the others? Just look at your own words when you describe small guilds "tiny idty bity guild leaders" and look at the words when you describe large guilds "large well established guild". While it's not an attack, it is much like what tshober does by using demeaning phrases when referring to small guilds and lofty righteous phrases when referring to large guilds. It gets old for those of us in small guilds too.

The small percentage he is talking about are the small guilds that made it to level 90. They represent a tiny tiny percentage of small guilds and yet are being shown as the example of why it is so easy for small gulids to level. It's only easy for small guilds to get to that level if every member is highly active - playing many hours every day and always taking renown as an end reward. Most small guilds are not like that, although I am impressed that those guilds accomplished what they did.

Right now we have a very extreme double standard. It is ok for large guilds to have low activity rates and advance, but small guilds can only advance if they are highly active. We should either reduce decay ratably for all or just get rid of it (which is also reducing ratably).

[-IPJC-]

You realise this rant makes you seem rather childish, dont you?

Why isnt it fair that a 60 man guild has the same decay as a 6 man one? What is wrong with recruiting whomever might want to join your guild? You arent really making any logical argument here but rather assumptions based on statements like "not earn that by just logging on once in a while and take everybody who wants in". We have a big guild that often has 15-20 dedicated players on at once and for (at least) a year we stayed at level 63. Since the changes we have cruised to level 65 already.

Thank you for making the right changes Turbine.

Hello Son of the South,

Please explain to me where the rant is in my post? As u should know Turbine asked guilds to give there opinion about recent changes to the guild decay system and that's simply what i did. That your and my opinion about the new system are different seems clear to me, but why call my post childish?

Its funny that u state your guild has been level 63 for a year and that now, with the recent change, your guild advanced to 65. Didn't i say that the new system took away the challenge? Here's the example of it. Good luck 'cruising' to level 66 and be sure to stay proud of it.

[theslimshady]

Have you not seen the continued attacks on small guilds on this thread and the others? Just look at your own words when you describe small guilds "tiny idty bity guild leaders" and look at the words when you describe large guilds "large well established guild". While it's not an attack, it is much like what tshober does by using demeaning phrases when referring to small guilds and lofty righteous phrases when referring to large guilds. It gets old for those of us in small guilds too.

The small percentage he is talking about are the small guilds that made it to level 90. They represent a tiny tiny percentage of small guilds and yet are being shown as the example of why it is so easy for small gulids to level. It's only easy for small guilds to get to that level if every member is highly active - playing many hours every day and always taking renown as an end reward. Most small guilds are not like that, although I am impressed that those guilds accomplished what they did.
Right now we have a very extreme double standard. It is ok for large guilds to have low activity rates and advance, but small guilds can only advance if they are highly active. We should either reduce decay ratably for all or just get rid of it (which is also reducing ratably).

look spin it how you will i did not ask turbine to hurt or change anything to do with small guilds and they didnt they changed 11-1000 accounts to be more player freindly and in response the overall idea was a good one
then a small handfull of peeps decided this was a large guild undermind thing based on epeen and guild prestige when it was not it was something we asked for to be addressed cause it was a real living nightmere after walling off for a entire year
and then we defended our position against people talking about how great the old system was because the majority of players did not think it was
and my final point was not you was wrong or i was right but the large against small comparision is not productive i think more stabile direct ideas are important
like about only what would be needed to help 10 or under guilds with this system in place and i really thought my idea with no decay on 10 or under was a really good one make 11 members the threshold for decay at all

[Gremmlynn]

Guild decay is needed because it prevents mass recruit guilds who recruit anybody and everybody from shooting up to level 100 while guilds who do not do this suffer. The original system did a great job of preventing this. Now keep in mind you get most of your buffs in the guild level 60ish range so if you plateaud at 70, you were just crying about epeen really.

It would have been a lot easier to digest if turbine simply added in a no renown feature where you can guild someone, but flag them no renown and they neither gain renown or count towards your guild size for decay/renown bonuses. Instead they implement free pass for large guilds, and screw everyone else.

Yes the old system actively supported only the right people getting to be in viable guilds. For the rest, they just had to learn that playing games was all about hard work and dedication, not just something to do to relax.

[Gremmlynn]

Hello Son of the South,

Please explain to me where the rant is in my post? As u should know Turbine asked guilds to give there opinion about recent changes to the guild decay system and that's simply what i did. That your and my opinion about the new system are different seems clear to me, but why call my post childish?

Its funny that u state your guild has been level 63 for a year and that now, with the recent change, your guild advanced to 65. Didn't i say that the new system took away the challenge? Here's the example of it. Good luck 'cruising' to level 66 and be sure to stay proud of it.

Why should it be a challenge to play with others who will support you?

[-IPJC-]

Why should it be a challenge to play with others who will support you?

It used to be a challenge to get a high level guild and get things good organised. I liked that and was proud of my guild level. Now large manned guilds can easily achieve the same without actually knowing how to play the game or organize things in their guild.

[Gremmlynn]

It used to be a challenge to get a high level guild and get things good organised. I liked that and was proud of my guild level. Now large manned guilds can easily achieve the same without actually knowing how to play the game or organize things in their guild.

I don't get the challenge. Play a lot, open lots of chests, keep decay low by avoiding those who don't play a lot and your guild gains levels. Just seems like a fairly unfriendly way to play the game to me.

Personally, I'm more proud of a guildie that takes the time to guide some new blood through a WW crawl rather than boring themselves to tears zerging the giants vault to ransack.

IMO the guild leveling system should support the guild and the game, not the other way around. Limiting guild membership and dictating how you play doesn't do that IMO.

[slarden]

I don't get the challenge. Play a lot, open lots of chests, keep decay low by avoiding those who don't play a lot and your guild gains levels. Just seems like a fairly unfriendly way to play the game to me.

Personally, I'm more proud of a guildie that takes the time to guide some new blood through a WW crawl rather than boring themselves to tears zerging the giants vault to ransack.

IMO the guild leveling system should support the guild and the game, not the other way around. Limiting guild membership and dictating how you play doesn't do that IMO.

See now you are putting words in his mouth. He ever said anyting about limiting guild membership or zerging or ransacking- that was you making it up.

The system used to be activity based entirely. Now it is an easy button to 100 for large guilds and still an activity based system for small guilds. There is a double standard that is easy and clear to see. Most people don't know about this yet, but word is slowly getting out to small guilds.

[Chaos000]

I knew there would be some gaming of the system, but I didn't expect large guilds to start recruiting vets from small guilds. I thought they would mass invite in the harbor or Korthos. However, the tactic makes sense. The fastest way to advance is to recruit vets from small guilds. It's a much easier sell than it used to be with the easy and fast march to 100.

Vets left large guilds for smaller guilds because they found that to be the easiest way to fast march to 100 because while it was theoretically possible, it appeared to be out of reach for large guilds. It stands to reason that if this is no longer the case, the vets who originally left a large guild only because of the lack of guild level progression, would consider leaving a smaller guild.