Guild Renown Changes

[eris2323]

I don't support guild decay at all. This is a video game. Decay does not support fun what so ever.
Gamers are willing to work for the guild. Many are willing to pay $$ as well.

But don't tax us, as that simulates real life too much. Real life is what we are trying to escape for a time.

Or heck.. allow us to use gems, those absolutely WORTHLESS rocks in the game, to buy renown. The guild ship guy currently is the ONLY thing in the game to take gems of any form (astral diamonds), baring the adamantine ore trader, and Maraud the Mines trader.

Well, if they for some reason decided to get rid of decay for EVERYONE, I wouldn't complain. At all. I think our entire guild has had about enough of decay.

Saying the word decay now triggers a kind of pavlovian reflex - except it makes a little vomit climb up into my mouth each time.

But not just for tiny guilds. Never.

[Missing_Minds]

Saying the word decay now triggers a kind of pavlovian reflex - except it makes a little vomit climb up into my mouth each time.

*ponders* let me help you get a new keyboard then.


decay, decay, decals, decay decay decay, decake, decay, mushroom, decay, decay, decay, dabears, decay decay...


Got that new keyboard ordered yet?

[eris2323]

*ponders* let me help you get a new keyboard then.


decay, decay, decals, decay decay decay, decake, decay, mushroom, decay, decay, decay, dabears, decay decay...


Got that new keyboard ordered yet?

what you got against mushrooms????????

[Missing_Minds]

what you got against mushrooms????????

Badgers.

[akiraproject24]

Sorry if you saw that as a shot at small guilds, it was more an explanation of how I see small casual guilds, as I'm in a large casual guild that's only large so that on any given evening we might have enough on to run a raid group.

As to your second point. Not having to group with people that are not from my guild is the main reason I'm in a guild.

Many folks in small guilds did their time in a large guild and broke off with close friends to get away from the drama and politics of many a large guild. Not to mention many large guilds are filled with pikers that cant lead anything and up being carried through everything by a smaller competent group within that large guild. That smaller group being the ones that get fed up and make said small guild.

[Zess-wolf]

I would like to know if there is some bug with very small guilds. because the decay has gone much higher since this change, my guild has 3 people only, and we´ve managed to just hit 80 by the time of the change, and now we are struggling just to keep 80,

is there anything wrong? cause the decay has gone much higher than it was.

Just wondering, cause we cant barely keep level 80 and worried about it

Zess

[Arnez]

<Slow Golf Clap>

Well done Large Guilds, well done.

[Thayion516]

I would like to know if there is some bug with very small guilds. because the decay has gone much higher since this change, my guild has 3 people only, and we´ve managed to just hit 80 by the time of the change, and now we are struggling just to keep 80,

is there anything wrong? cause the decay has gone much higher than it was.

Just wondering, cause we cant barely keep level 80 and worried about it

Zess

They set the Membership Variable to zero in the Decay Formula. Mathematically, there was no decay change for guilds under size of 10 members.

Basically the previous was level multiplier x 20 (as in max(guildsize*10)+10 giving a Minimum Value 10 with unlimited Maximum, was changed to max(null*10)+10) resulting in a 10 member Constant Value.

DDO Wiki has the hard numbers and new formula here. http://ddowiki.com/page/Guild_Renown

Just curious tho, how often do you 3 play? Like i play prolly 10-15 hours a week and bring in 20,000+ with no bonus. Yourself?

[DocBenway]

I would like to know if there is some bug with very small guilds. because the decay has gone much higher since this change, my guild has 3 people only, and we´ve managed to just hit 80 by the time of the change, and now we are struggling just to keep 80,

is there anything wrong? cause the decay has gone much higher than it was.

Just wondering, cause we cant barely keep level 80 and worried about it

Zess

By barely keep 80, do you mean you hit 80 and then decay back to 79 next day only to hit 80 and decay back to 79 next day again? I could see how decay could seem much higher if you are hitting the new renown ransack that cuts the drops as soon as you gain 1 level. I know the amount and frequency of renown for kills and in chests dropped very noticeably the one time we have leveled since this change.

[Gremmlynn]

Many folks in small guilds did their time in a large guild and broke off with close friends to get away from the drama and politics of many a large guild. Not to mention many large guilds are filled with pikers that cant lead anything and up being carried through everything by a smaller competent group within that large guild. That smaller group being the ones that get fed up and make said small guild.

That's fine if that small group either plays enough or in a synchronized enough of a fashion to actually see each other more often than not. Otherwise I don't see the point, but then I see guilds as primarily for bringing people together and the other stuff added on (ships, buffs, etc.) as just added fluff.

[slarden]

Turbine, those of us in small guilds are very confused regarding what your future plans are.

Can you please answer the following questions:

1) Why do we need decay in the game at all. Currently decay is only issue for small guilds with the new formula. How does it benefit the game to keep small guilds from leveling? Have you considered completely eliminating decay?
2) Are you trying to discourage small guilds? The current system and lack of information about what future changes are being contemplated is confusing to us.
3) Are you planning on keeping the system "as is" for a long time or do you plan to make changes within the next 6 months. If so are changes to help small guilds with decay in the plans?
4) The original vision was to support guilds of all sizes. Has this vision changed?

We don't know what to do. Please provide some insight into what future (if any) small guilds have.

Thank you.

[Dandonk]

So, are we there yet?

[slarden]

I think this shows just how messed up the current system is, including the increased ransack bonus which serves as a new and additional penalty on small guilds that got none of the benefit associated with his new penalty.

Sarlona crashed a few nights ago and we were hit with double decay for the day even though Turbine's official comments state otherwise. Others have noted the same problem. So our new decay time occurs during the middle of our prime playing time in the evening.

Due to this I was trying to control when we leveled and had nearly 20,000 in renown banked in end rewards to cover our decay and ensure we wouldn't slide backwards due to the renown penalty we will get for gaining a level. I log on realize 2 guildy's have been playing and generated quite a bit of rewown because we just leveled. The only problem is we are going to get hit with decay in 30 minutes and again in 24 hours and 30 minutes. On top of this every player in our guild is hit with an increased guild renown ransack penalty that was created because how easy leveling is now for large guilds.

So I quickly log in and out as various alts to try claim all the banked end rewards before decay hit. I succeed and barely get the renown claimed in time. The only problem is that my estimate of 20k renown decay estimate for 2 days off. Since we gained 1 level our decay in the next 24.5 hours will instead be 25,054 (since it hits twice 24.5 hours after leveling).

So I have to run U16 quests. The two of us got one heroic deed total from the 4 quests we ran. We did not review or look at our end rewards and instead agreed to log in exactly 24 hours after we leveled and 30 minutes before decay hit so that we can avoid sliding back one level. If we claimed our end rewards immediately, we were concerned we would get no renown option since this is what happened the previous time we leveled and were hit with this new guild renown ransack penalty.

Why is it guilds must go through all this. If we didn't plan for and bank renown, there is no possibility we can level without getting caught in a circular loop of level up and then lose a level.

If Turbine is ok with running a test where they effectively remove decay as an issue for large guilds, why are they not ok with running a test period where they remove decay entirely? The argument that decay needs to be eliminated 95% for some guilds, while guilds of <=10 get no renown reduction, but also get a more difficult guild ransack penalty is absolutely non-sensical.

This is a game. Games should be fun and fair. Decay is not fun and this system is not fair.

[Dandonk]

My own guild finally levelled too, the other day. I didn't think the new higher ransack was worth complaining about before, but it does hit hard. Very hard.

[-IPJC-]

As an officer from a small manned guild on Sarlona (Legends of Lore, 6 active members, currently level 77 and still leveling) i have to state that all our guild members are really disappointed if current changes will remain permanent.

It looks like the new guild decay rules supports players to be inactive all the time and log on once a month. How can it be fair to all small manned guilds who have been working hard and have been really active to get leveled and remain high level even with spending turbine points on renown elixirs and such? Its just not fair that a 60 manned guild has the same decay as a 6 manned one. Rules like this stimulate guild leaders and recruiters to basically say yes to anyone who wants to join their guild. Players should realize that if they want a high level guild and the benefits that comes with that, they should work for it and not earn that by just logging on once in a while and take everybody who wants in. Where's the challenge in a system like this? Please Turbine, reward those who have been working hard and earned it.

I hope Turbine decides to change back to the old renown system as soon as possible, if not, and we do go back to the old system, i expect lots and lots more complaints from level 85 guilds who just bought a level 85 airship which they are going to loose because they cant keep up with the renown decay as in the old system.

I wish Turbine lots of wisdom in making a correct decision.

Greets in behalf of Legends of Lore,

Cnok

[Dandonk]

I hope Turbine decides to change back to the old renown system as soon as possible, if not, and we do go back to the old system, i expect lots and lots more complaints from level 85 guilds who just bought a level 85 airship which they are going to loose because they cant keep up with the renown decay as in the old system.

While I appreciate your concerns, who mostly mirror mine, there's a tiny point: I do not believe you lose the level 85 ship even if you decay below 85. (now lose any ship, for that matter)

[McFlay]

1) Why do we need decay in the game at all. Currently decay is only issue for small guilds with the new formula. How does it benefit the game to keep small guilds from leveling? Have you considered completely eliminating decay?

Guild decay is needed because it prevents mass recruit guilds who recruit anybody and everybody from shooting up to level 100 while guilds who do not do this suffer. The original system did a great job of preventing this. Now keep in mind you get most of your buffs in the guild level 60ish range so if you plateaud at 70, you were just crying about epeen really.

It would have been a lot easier to digest if turbine simply added in a no renown feature where you can guild someone, but flag them no renown and they neither gain renown or count towards your guild size for decay/renown bonuses. Instead they implement free pass for large guilds, and screw everyone else.

[theslimshady]

Guild decay is needed because it prevents mass recruit guilds who recruit anybody and everybody from shooting up to level 100 while guilds who do not do this suffer. The original system did a great job of preventing this. Now keep in mind you get most of your buffs in the guild level 60ish range so if you plateaud at 70, you were just crying about epeen really.

It would have been a lot easier to digest if turbine simply added in a no renown feature where you can guild someone, but flag them no renown and they neither gain renown or count towards your guild size for decay/renown bonuses. Instead they implement free pass for large guilds, and screw everyone else.

just being large does not mean a mass recruiting or spammer guild in anyway and is a common misguided statement the fear induced hysteria that was caused by this is years old and is untrue and unwarrented
the idea that a verysmall guild only has to recruit a few members and stay small and be able to progress forward vrs a large guild who must radically change its core was the surface of this issue
to keep this going on falsehoods is unfair for the genral playing base so just
try and understand that the large guilds needed a restructure of the renown system that for so long caused such a high level of strife and althought this change might not be the greatest for a small minorty of that playing public it has been a great releif to long established large guilds across all the servers so by including anything in a statement about rolling
back to the old system of repression i cannot sign on at all i understand guilds under 10 members at this moment are feeling the pinch but talking about putting it back where almost every one outside that margian felt it is not the answer

[McFlay]

just being large does not mean a mass recruiting or spammer guild in anyway and is a common misguided statement the fear induced hysteria that was caused by this is years old and is untrue and unwarrented
the idea that a verysmall guild only has to recruit a few members and stay small and be able to progress forward vrs a large guild who must radically change its core was the surface of this issue
to keep this going on falsehoods is unfair for the genral playing base so just
try and understand that the large guilds needed a restructure of the renown system that for so long caused such a high level of strife and althought this change might not be the greatest for a small minorty of that playing public it has been a great releif to long established large guilds across all the servers so by including anything in a statement about rolling
back to the old system of repression i cannot sign on at all i understand guilds under 10 members at this moment are feeling the pinch but talking about putting it back where almost every one outside that margian felt it is not the answer

Wow bro, why so defensive? I didn't accuse anyone of being a spammer guild, but I do remember quite well that before decay came into play all the largest and highest level guilds around were open invite and recruit everyone possible. Shortly after the inception of decay a lot of those guilds lost tons of levels, splintered into smaller guilds as people realized bigger wasn't always better, or outright dissolved. So no, while its not quite hysteria, because I don't think your average person gets hysterical about ddo, my statements are neither untrue or unwarranted.

[theslimshady]

Wow bro, why so defensive? I didn't accuse anyone of being a spammer guild, but I do remember quite well that before decay came into play all the largest and highest level guilds around were open invite and recruit everyone possible. Shortly after the inception of decay a lot of those guilds lost tons of levels, splintered into smaller guilds as people realized bigger wasn't always better, or outright dissolved. So no, while its not quite hysteria, because I don't think your average person gets hysterical about ddo, my statements are neither untrue or unwarranted.

not defensive just saying the same auto invite fear-mongering what ifs is a shameless tactic and unproductive
and that the system in place is great for the majority of guilds 11-1000 members most guilds even the ones complaing are still moving forward not hitting walls or losing levels
so i feel this outcry on how horrible it is is over hyped and unwarranted