Guild Renown Changes

[cdbd3rd]

As a distraction from all the heat over the decay rate - I'm gonna throw a different worm into the blender.

How about relaxing the level limits on renown proccing on kills/chests?

PnP example: A small town is being harrased by a mob. They just want it dead.

John Doe the Newb shows up and kills the mob. = Yay! Renown increases.
Jane Doe the Elite shows up and kills the mob. = Meh, who cares?

Those people didn't care who killed their problem, just that it was handled.

Sure the renown for Jane the Elite's guild is miniscule compared to their overall presence, but her action was still noted by *somebody*.

I'm not advocating the level restrictions go away entirely, but maybe relaxed a little bit. That level 7 Vet character clearing up harbor quests for their favor should not go entirely beneath notice guild-wise.

[Nestroy]

OK, now there has been plenty of time for the DEVs to catch up in here...

Does anybody (DEVs , Lam players) have any news on how Guild Renown and Renown Decay will be handled in the future?

[UurlockYgmeov]

OK, now there has been plenty of time for the DEVs to catch up in here...

Does anybody (DEVs , Lam players) have any news on how Guild Renown and Renown Decay will be handled in the future?

Haven't heard anything (nor seen any changes yet) on Lammdaland. Currently it is all Dev's on deck for the initial rollouts of the alpha enhancements.

And the lammdaland players are so busy with the enhancements they have missed the changes to collectables traders and things like minos, possible new tier to twelve favor etc.

which reminds me - I should go and post those collectables trader changes since my TR group called it for the night because of lag....

[eris2323]

OK, now there has been plenty of time for the DEVs to catch up in here...

Does anybody (DEVs , Lam players) have any news on how Guild Renown and Renown Decay will be handled in the future?

There is nothing in the lam release notes regarding this, I expect no change yet.

Devs haven't said a single word on the matter, that I've seen.

The enhancement change is pretty huge; I expect they'll be busy for a while with that.

[Dandonk]

The enhancement change is pretty huge; I expect they'll be busy for a while with that.

Yes, it does seem that the concerns that small guilds have rate so low that we can easily be kept waiting another 4-6 months with nothing but "read by a dev" comments. I'm glad Turbine is powered by their fans... well, some of them. The rest of us... well, we can see where we rate.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Call it an educated hunch - but changes are coming. Am confident that the Dev's are just preoccupied with massive piles of bug reports from the new bug reporting system (I know I added to that pile :P ) and the enhancement alpha - but there be the winds of change a coming - maybe not as soon as I and many others wish - but it is coming. This year, I feel it in me bones.

[Dandonk]

Call it an educated hunch - but changes are coming. Am confident that the Dev's are just preoccupied with massive piles bug reports from the new bug reporting system (I know I added to that pile :P ) and the enhancement alpha - but there be the winds of changed a coming - maybe not as soon as I and many others wish - but it is coming. This year, I feel it in me bones.

Changes are -always- coming. But this year? I'm sorry, but my own feeling, based on NO meaningful feedback from the devs since October when this was started, is doubtful on that point.

[Charononus]

Changes are -always- coming. But this year? I'm sorry, but my own feeling, based on NO meaningful feedback from the devs since October when this was started, is doubtful on that point.

This,

How many years were druids coming soon.

[Tshober]

This,

How many years were druids coming soon.

Druids were "coming soon" on launch day. So 6+ years. But druids took a great deal of coding and art and all new game physics. Eliminating decay seems to be favored by most posters in this thread and that would take no coding at all. However, they may feel that they must have in place other ways to generate the DDO store sales that they will lose on renown pots before they further reduce decay, and that may involve coding. Or they may have something totally different in mind. It seems abundantly clear that they have no intention of sharing their plans with us, beyond the general parameters they have already stated, until those plans are ready.

[Dandonk]

Druids were "coming soon" on launch day. So 6+ years. But druids took a great deal of coding and art and all new game physics. Eliminating decay seems to be favored by most posters in this thread and that would take no coding at all. However, they may feel that they must have in place other ways to generate the DDO store sales that they will lose on renown pots before they further reduce decay, and that may involve coding. Or they may have something totally different in mind. It seems abundantly clear that they have no intention of sharing their plans with us until those plans are ready.

Which seems to make whatever we post here pointless. They're going to do whatever they're going to do, no matter what we think, post or do. There will be no feedback and no discussions, and any change - if it comes - will come at a time of their choosing.

I'm so glad Turbine is "powered by their fans".

[Tshober]

Which seems to make whatever we post here pointless. They're going to do whatever they're going to do, no matter what we think, post or do. There will be no feedback and no discussions, and any change - if it comes - will come at a time of their choosing.

I'm so glad Turbine is "powered by their fans".

I would not go that far. I am convinced that it was our posts in the forums over the last 1.5 years or so that eventually helped to convince the devs to change the old system. I think they also gathered their own data to confirm what we were saying and I think the Build Your Guild event, which happened shortly before the change was made, was part of that. So I can't say that what we post does not matter at all. I think our posts can direct them to a problem and might even give them ideas about possible solutions. But, as you say, they will do what they will do in the end.

[Dandonk]

I would not go that far. I am convinced that it was our posts in the forums over the last 1.5 years or so that eventually helped to convince the devs to change the old system. I think they also gathered their own data to confirm what we were saying and I think the Build Your Guild event, which happened shortly before the change was made, was part of that. So I can't say that what we post does not matter at all. I think our posts can direct them to a problem and might even give them ideas about possible solutions. But, as you say, they will do what they will do in the end.

<Insert Mem's Charlie Brown pic>

We will not be allowed to actually hit that ball this time, either.

Pessimist? It's just the name optimists give to realists.

[Blue100000005]

anyone have a link to an accurate renown decay calculator or spreadsheet? i am curious about what im loosing per week.

[slarden]

anyone have a link to an accurate renown decay calculator or spreadsheet? i am curious about what im loosing per week.

Here you go blue:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Guild_Renown..._decay_formula

Lookup the # in the multiplier column next to your level. Then multiply that # by 20 for your daily decay. This is the minimum decay you will get for the day. You will additionally get one or more full days worth of decay each time there is down time. When DDO was down for the billing change we had over 10 days of decay during just a few days. Normally we just get one extra day worth of decay when there is down time.

[Dandonk]

So, a forum "update" and another month later, and still no word. While I understand that more changes wouldn't happen over night, it's been over six months since the "temporary" change was made.

Turbine... why are we even having decay anymore? Just get rid of it, already.

"Powered by your fans"... really? Why have we had no meaningful word for the last many months, then?
(No, posts such as "further changes are not yet imminent" do not count. They say nothing.)

Come on, let's kill this topic once and for all. Do away with decay.

[Nestroy]

So, a forum "update" and another month later, and still no word. While I understand that more changes wouldn't happen over night, it's been over six months since the "temporary" change was made.

Turbine... why are we even having decay anymore? Just get rid of it, already.

"Powered by your fans"... really? Why have we had no meaningful word for the last many months, then?
(No, posts such as "further changes are not yet imminent" do not count. They say nothing.)

Come on, let's kill this topic once and for all. Do away with decay.

At least they had plenty of time to read through this thread - but you are perfectly right, Dandonk.

[unacceptable]

Currently renown is computed on a variable basis and decay is computed on a fixed daily basis. The system is obviously unfair to tiny guilds and hugely favorable for large guilds.

The problem with the old and the new system is that decay and renown are computed with different methodologies. Decay should be applied on a per drop basis rather than daily The daily decay methodology causes guilds to lose progress and is also exceptionally punitive to guilds that accept players that are either slow or don't play much.

Instead decay should be applied at each drop based on level. One simple example of a formula would be:

[Renown]*[Guild Bonus]*Decay Multiplier + bonus (from elixirs or bonus days)

The decay multiplier could be something as as simple as (110 - Level)/100 with this only applying to guilds level 30 or above.

This does two things:

1) it allows all guilds to move forward
2) it rationalizes the guild bonus multiplier. Currently small guilds with high activity levels benefit greatly from the bonus while those with lower activity levels benefit less. This smooths the curve so that guild bonus doesn't give highly active guilds an enormous benefit - decay is variable based only on level
3) it provides more incentive to buy elixirs since guilds can't move backwards and the bonus would be based on actual renown drop before decay multiplier. This means that even someone in a large high level guild buying an elixir would make a significant impact as their total renown earned would go up significantly. Also it removes the disincentive to buy elixirs caused by the fact that even with an exlixir your guild can move back. Elixirs will always increase guild renown and never result in a situation where all that benefit is erased due to fixed decay.

I am sure large guilds won't like this after the system was tilted dramatically in their favor. They won't like any change at this point, but it's a much more fair system than we have now and it doesn't give any incentive to boot since each member at only positive renown. It is not possible for a person to cause a guild to move backwards by slow play or lack of playing.

[Nestroy]

(Long posting ommitted)

+1 - great idea, would work. Should be easy to implement too.

[UurlockYgmeov]

+1 - great idea, would work. Should be easy to implement too.

concern is lag....

ever notice the lag opening a chest? now add more math....

guess with all the other stuff that is important that SOON™ has become NOT SO SOON™

[Nestroy]

concern is lag....

ever notice the lag opening a chest? now add more math....

guess with all the other stuff that is important that SOON™ has become NOT SO SOON™

I do not know how DDO is programmed internally on how the operations are shared between local client and server but, and this could be discussed more generally, how about doing some caluclations on the client side? No further work load for the server except getting back the result and saving into the database.

Back to renown decay - better still would be to completely do away with it.