Guild Renown Changes

[Tychagara]

now you understand why that user is on my /squelch list.

yeah, by the way you never did repost that proposal. kindly do so.

[Charononus]

How dare you post such filth!!!!

reported for filth, blantant rudeness, and inappropriate language.

Lmao, you actually got me to double check to make sure autocorrect didn't change fixed that for you to something strange.

[Tychagara]

Lmao, you actually got me to double check to make sure autocorrect didn't change fixed that for you to something strange.

that was akin to a rude and explicit gesture. hope you get banned. was reported.

and that means more than what you said - it has a simple meaning - just google it - first one - urbandictionary.

[Charononus]

that was akin to a rude and explicit gesture. hope you get banned. was reported.

If that's your opinion I feel very sorry for you and the problems you will encounter in life.

[Dandonk]

Devs still trying to keep up with this thread.

This is good. Thank you for trying.

But at this point, we need some kind of statement of where you are heading. These small snippets, while appreciated, say nothing new and do not contribute meaningfully to the discussion at hand.

[Tychagara]

taking a lead from a smart person:

/squelch Charononus for rude, and inflamitory posting using vaguely hidden obscene references.

[Charononus]

taking a lead from a smart person:

/squelch Charononus for rude, and inflamitory posting using vaguely hidden obscene references.

So vague that he himself doesn't see the obscenity, I love it.

[Tshober]

Made shorter and simplified for easy reading. Now the small guild haters might actually read.

More love for the old decay system. We get it already. No need to keep spamming it.


Here's all you need to know about his plan:

Okay. Judge for yourself:

[Tychagara]

blah blah blah lack of show and tell

fiqured it was too much math for you. tell you what - you just post the level of guild and how many logged in within the last 24 hours and I'll do the math and post it for you. if that is still too much tell me which server and I'll pop in and you can invite me into your uber guild and I'll even do the counting and see just how good and angelic your guild really is.

You must be hiding the fact that the proposal works for you guild since you won't post the information I just did.

[Gremmlynn]

Agree - but what if Turbine doesn't? Since they probably won't?

Well then we just hope one of their competitors does. There is no rule saying we have to play their game if we find it causes more frustration than entertainment.

[Tshober]

You must be hiding the fact that the proposal works for you guild since you won't post the information I just did.

You are the one doing all the hiding here. Hiding the plan's discrimination against low renown earners behind averages. Averages are very good at hiding reality. Simply dividing total renown earned by number of players in the guild hides which guild actually earned more renown in reality. Making a 1-man guild look like it can really compete with a 300-man guild, when in reality it's not even a contest. But we can completely hide that with averages. You are doing the same here. Hiding the discrimination behind averages, and assumed average at that.

[Tychagara]

Well then we just hope one of their competitors does. There is no rule saying we have to play their game if we find it causes more frustration than entertainment.

Then go play it and come back when decay goes away. And how about your math? Come on show it! Or should I come to your server as well and join your guild (probably the same one) and show how the system would work (well) for your guild as well.

[Tychagara]

no show and tell and blah blah blah

Come on show it! Tell me what server and guild and i'll have a character there in minutes.

[Lowz]

How dare you post such filth!!!!

reported for filth, blantant rudeness, and inappropriate language.

he obviously don't understand the meaning of it. very foul.

[Lowz]

Made shorter and simplified for easy reading. Now the small guild haters might actually read.
CORE CONCEPTS:
Guilds prosperity in a fair system should reward activity, but not penalize casual players.
System removes size bias completely from the decay system.
There will always be reasons to remove players from guilds, all that can done is to remove as much of that from the system as possible. cannot ever truely remove all of it.
Renown is not Experience and should not be looked at in the same way. The renown system is not like the experience system.

Eliminate Decay Altogether

but if Turbine says no, then:
Modify temporary system by making simple and easy changes, most can be done with zero downtime.
Is fair for all guilds of all sizes of all styles of play and takes away 99% of the pressure away to boot.
Booting might still occur - but not because of the system.
Easy to accomplish because mostly only modifying existing code by changing static variables.
Is simple, transparent and easy to explain, understand, and compute.

Here is the Actual System:
only those members who generate renown are counted toward modified guild size and only for the day they generate renown. (for mail checkers and purely social log ins and daily dice chuckers)
Considered inactive after one day instead of 30 days for guild purposes (changed to account for daily dice);
remove the +10 to the modified guild size in the formula, with a modified minimum guild size becoming one.
Modified formula would be something like: modified_guild_size(minimum one) x (guild_level x 2.5 (two point five)).



Humorous anecdote.
"If a guild isn't making itself famous - then history will forget it, and it will slide into object obscurity.

But if a guild is out questing - doing heroic deeds and legendary victories that the mistrals will sing about (and be paid in renown - maybe that is what happens to the renown decayed? the mistrals ate it? :P ) then the guild will be remembered. However, memory is a fickle beast, very short and not long lived, faded glory fades fast unless quickly renewed with bold deeds."


shorted to just the key concepts

Now before flaming I dare you to do the math after counting the number of members that logged into your guild during the last twenty-four hours and dividing by 3(to find actual accounts and to eliminate those who just checked mail auctions daily dice or do non-guild renown earning activities). Kindly post the work.

Kindly don't respond without doing this:

I will go first - 15 characters logged into my level 56 guild during the last 24 hours. Divide by 3 and get 5 (which also just happens to be the actual accounts that logged in during the last twenty-four hours (but at least one didn't earn renown)). 5 times 56 times 2.5 equals 700 decay, which is down from the existing 3688 decay the guild I belong to is going to experience today. That goes from nearly 740 decay per account to 140 decay per account. Totally reasonable. And any level 56 guild will find they have the same decay per renown earning account. Unbiased.

I am confident that most who do the math will find their decay goes down, and only a couple will find their decay goes up but only by a small amount.

Anyone who doesn't do the math and show their math shouldn't post. Here is your chance to prove us wrong.

postscript there are 16 total accounts in the guild I belong to.

totally behind this. I currently don't belong to a guild because I left my guild because was hurting it with my casual play. this would let me be in the guild I want and not hurt it.

anyone who says this is a step backward is a small guild hater and is just filled with vial dragon breath.

[Gremmlynn]

It is a solution to a known issue. All items in code consume resources. Friend of mine went to change name of his guild and spent hours on phone to tech support and they explained just how many dead guilds are out there - thousands. Dead as in no members, no leader and been that way for quite some time, causing many headaches.

Now if something exists, then it consumes resources. common sense. Even if just another tik of server processor time per each while doing daily maintenance; or during a server reboot for repopulating ship amenities.

I like. Simple and elegant, probably could be refined more.

I find it hard to believe we, who have no real idea as to how their system allocates resources, could suggest anything useful to those who do about doing it.

[Tychagara]

I find it hard to believe we, who have no real idea as to how their system allocates resources, could suggest anything useful to those who do about doing it.

a. basic law of computers - databases take resources and clutter and fragmentation are bad. common sense.

b. show us your math. or let me do it for you.

[GrimGus]

Why do we care so much about other guilds? How does a dead guild affect you? How does another guild affect your play?

This is a game for many people. Not all play for 6-8 hrs a day. Some play 1-3 hrs a week. Some even less.

Why do we need guild decay? Why should we punish those that play casually by collapsing their guild?

Get rid of decay. Problem solved. Congrats to all those who advance faster and or higher then my guild, and thank you for shareing a ride on your airship with me.

Now I think it is time we hear from the devs. It should be plainly obvious this is hot button with the player community, and personally I think the ,what appears to be lack of interest from ddo, is insulting.

[Arnez]

I hate to say it, but I like UurlockYgmeov's plan.

Honestly though after the first 100 pages of small guild bashing(1 or 2 exceptions noted), did you think small guilds would give up? I certainly did, and we haven't seen Slarden (early champion of small guilds) post in months.

However- there are MANY small guilds.
With the age of this game, and the upcoming competing titles, I think many large guilds will find themselves facing small guild math- and then there will be a reckoning.

Glad you guys are taking up the fight. (errr discussion, that is)

[Tychagara]

Why do we care so much about other guilds? How does a dead guild affect you? How does another guild affect your play?

This is a game for many people. Not all play for 6-8 hrs a day. Some play 1-3 hrs a week. Some even less.

Why do we need guild decay? Why should we punish those that play casually by collapsing their guild?

Get rid of decay. Problem solved. Congrats to all those who advance faster and or higher then my guild, and thank you for shareing a ride on your airship with me.

Now I think it is time we hear from the devs. It should be plainly obvious this is hot button with the player community, and personally I think the ,what appears to be lack of interest from ddo, is insulting.

A Dev just commented.

And dead guilds cause lag and affect the game for all.

I personally don't care about others guilds - but trying to force the small guild haters to show how proposed system would affect them with hard numbers. They either are too lazy to do so or are hidding the fact that what we are proposing works for them. Until they show the math that is just mine (and many others) humble opinion.