Guild Renown Changes

[eris2323]

No you don't have to give up a slot - in fact - guild slotted equipment is a must have for TR's - just use cannith crafting and get some killer gear and more HP / SP / Damage - with no ml caused by the slot.

I have some nice goggles of Int +6 of +5 resistance (reflex) with a guild slot MCI with a minimum level of 15.

Have a ml:1 rapier with a slot - nicely crafted with scream of bleed.....

I run with a guild slot from level 1 through essentially level 18 or so. After level 18 they kinda loose their edge and the new slotted equipment comes into play.

And the guild would have to choose to give up another ship amenity to slot these in. Probably make it a large so difficult to fit it and say and xp shrine and something else.

Thanks for mentioning that - will have to include the size in the next revisal.

.... What... the? Just. Stop with this.

Guild members have to use an equipment slot to get a guild slot item in use that will give them the max of +20 hit points from guild items.

You want everyone to just immediately receive +30 hit points, at level 1, without having to use a slot, so you can use the slots for something else then?

Over powered.

C'mon now.

[Lowz]

Hey, if the devs ever decided to just turn off decay, I'd be all for it

so am I - just ain't going to happen.

[eris2323]

so am I - just ain't going to happen.

SO why not just argue in favor of removing guild decay, instead of voting in favor of penalizing MY guild with HIS proposal?

Hmmmmmmm?

[Gremmlynn]

well the proposal fights it in several ways:

removes the +10 and sets the minimum to 1 - I do see the point of 2, but really not much difference so probably should just take it all the way down to 2.

The reason I chose 2 is because that's what a 6 member guild would be at. I can read enough into the system the devs gave us to figure out that, regardless what lip service they may pay to respecting guilds of all sizes, they made the system to benefit guilds of 6 more than guilds below that size. Personally, I would have put it around 50, but I don't make my living from appeasing people who I can otherwise live without.

That and the +10, both indicate to me that the devs would prefer the system to reward guilds being more inclusive. Smart on their part IMO as many don't join guilds because their friends are in them, they join to make friends or at least have people to play with who are more accountable for their interactions than one is likely to find in a pug.

That said, I'm not very worried that those same devs are going to reverse their indicated position on those matters and change back to a system that attaches a cost, or even get's away from one that gives a reward, for having less active players in them.

[UurlockYgmeov]

The fees you cite are laughably trivial. Okay, give me a trivial fee that makes my guild immune to decay and I will be happy.

Ok - is already there - called decay.

.... What... the? Just. Stop with this.

Guild members have to use an equipment slot to get a guild slot item in use that will give them the max of +20 hit points from guild items.

Too funny! You try to change tact since you can't bully me into stopping to try to fix the system with a well thought out simple to implement, fair and unbiased solution.

More popcorn!

Guild decay is a good thing - as long as it is fair and unbiased - and to do so it must be based on membership and level.

well said.

[eris2323]

Ok - is already there - called decay.


Too funny! You try to change tact since you can't bully me into stopping to try to fix the system with a well thought out simple to implement, fair and unbiased solution.



well said.

No... I'm trying to understand how you can start your sentence saying you're not using slots but then right after say you're using slots.

I'm not trying to bully you, I'm asking for relief for my brain.

You're hurting it.

"No you don't have to give up a slot - in fact - guild slotted equipment is a must have for TR'"

And I said, yes, you're using an equipment slot for that. but you're saying no, you're not giving up an equipment slot for that. But you're saying yes, it's a must have. But you're saying no, you're not using a slot for that, but I'm saying yes, you're using an equipment slot for that.

Do I really have to explain your own sentence fail to you?

[UurlockYgmeov]

The reason I chose 2 is because that's what a 6 member guild would be at. I can read enough into the system the devs gave us to figure out that, regardless what lip service they may pay to respecting guilds of all sizes, they made the system to benefit guilds of 6 more than guilds below that size. Personally, I would have put it around 50, but I don't make my living from appeasing people who I can otherwise live without.

That and the +10, both indicate to me that the devs would prefer the system to reward guilds being more inclusive. Smart on their part IMO as many don't join guilds because their friends are in them, they join to make friends or at least have people to play with who are more accountable for their interactions than one is likely to find in a pug.

That said, I'm not very worried that those same devs are going to reverse their indicated position on those matters and change back to a system that attaches a cost, or even get's away from one that gives a reward, for having less active players in them.

Actually - I think they made it that way to make the math work. 10 is a decimal place and that is generally is one of the ways to make equations work.

Agree - and so the proposal doesn't change back - rather it fixes the already broken system.

[UurlockYgmeov]

No... I'm trying to understand how you can start your sentence saying you're not using slots but then right after say you're using slots.

I'm not trying to bully you, I'm asking for relief for my brain.

You're hurting it.

"No you don't have to give up a slot - in fact - guild slotted equipment is a must have for TR'"

And I said, yes, you're using an equipment slot for that. but you're saying no, you're not giving up an equipment slot for that.

Do I really have to explain your own sentence fail to you?

with guild slotted equipment you don't give up a slot - you just have to find the right equipment or craft your own.

The guild slotted gems gave additional benefits without costing ML or anything (except the cost of the gems and the time to install them every six hours) as a benefit to belonging to a guild

[eris2323]

with guild slotted equipment you don't give up a slot - you just have to find the right equipment or craft your own.

The guild slotted gems gave additional benefits without costing ML or anything (except the cost of the gems and the time to install them every six hours) as a benefit to belonging to a guild

*IF* you have an item, you can use the item. In a slot.

Wow, you're just not getting this. It's a rare item to begin with - that must be maintained, which is kind of a pain, hitting the store. It's also rare to even find the large slots before they removed them, so they're pretty expensive. So to USE a guild slot, you're USING an equipment slot.

In other words, you want a rare, expensive item made redundant and to give every 1st level guildie of level 70 or above a perma-buff to hit points and spell points.

I don't really care if you personally have 80 gazillion large slot items, new players to the game aren't having them drop, so it's getting rarer and rarer to be able to have this special buff. And yet you want everyone to have it, for free

But that's not overpowered... not at all.

Just like your suggestion that a solo guild should only have to pay 250 decay per day to maintain a LEVEL 100 GUILD.

I believe both are overpowered, and both are horrible ideas for the game as a whole.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Just like your suggestion that a solo guild should only have to pay 250 decay per day to maintain a LEVEL 100 GUILD.

Kindly stop misquoting me, putting words into my mouth or trying to twist my words.

I believe both are overpowered, and both are horrible ideas for the game as a whole.

Along that line of reasoning we should also remove the 30 resists you have on your ship because they make level 1 characters invincible, and the +2 stat shrines, and the +2 to hit and +2 damage, and so on.

[eris2323]

Kindly stop misquoting me, putting words into my mouth or trying to twist my words.


I am sure you use guild slotted equipment.

I can't currently afford to squeeze in guild slot equipment, and even if I did, so what? I'd have PAID for that, and am using a slot for that.

You just want free hit points, spell points, and penalties for large guilds only!

Or so it seems.

[UurlockYgmeov]

I believe both are overpowered, and both are horrible ideas for the game as a whole.

Along that line of reasoning we should also remove the 30 resists you have on your ship because they make level 1 characters invincible, and the +2 stat shrines, and the +2 to hit and +2 damage, and so on.

[Tshober]

More popcorn!

Guild decay is a good thing - as long as it is fair and unbiased - and to do so it must be based on membership and level.

Renown decay is worse than taxes. Most everyone hates to pay taxes but at least taxes are used to pay for stuff that most people do want at least some of the time, like roads, bridges, police, fire-fighters, schools, clean water, safe food, etc. Decay is a tax that every guild over level 25 must pay and it pays for no benefits at all. None. Imagine how much more people would hate taxes if they never even paid for anything at all.

[eris2323]

Kindly stop misquoting me, putting words into my mouth or trying to twist my words.


Along that line of reasoning we should also remove the 30 resists you have on your ship because they make level 1 characters invincible, and the +2 stat shrines, and the +2 to hit and +2 damage, and so on.

How am I wrong?

Modified formula would be something like: modified_guild_size[i](1 being the minimum) x (guild_level x 2.5 (two point five)).

so, guild size of 1, guild level 100

1 x (100 x 2.5) = 1 x 250 = You want it to cost 250 decay per day for a solo guild to maintain a level 100 guild.

Hold on, let me get my calculator.

Yup, 100 x 2.5 = 250.

[eris2323]

Along that line of reasoning we should also remove the 30 resists you have on your ship because they make level 1 characters invincible, and the +2 stat shrines, and the +2 to hit and +2 damage, and so on.

See what I mean, this is the wrong thread for this argument.

This is a guild renown thread, why did you bring such over-powered ideas to the table, if not to solely benefit yourself?!?!

So to sum it up:

You think a level 100 solo guild should only have to pay 250 decay per day,

You think guilds should be penalized based on number of players, as a level 100 guild with 100 active players would have to make 25,000 per day,

and you'd also like some really overpowered buffs,

and a bunch of features programmed into the game that are totally unrelated to renown decay but since you're asking, you might as well ask big?

[UurlockYgmeov]

Renown decay is worse than taxes. Most everyone hates to pay taxes but at least taxes are used to pay for stuff that most people do want at least some of the time, like roads, bridges, police, fire-fighters, schools, clean water, safe food, etc. Decay is a tax that every guild over level 25 must pay and it pays for no benefits at all. None. Imagine how much more people would hate taxes if they never even paid for anything at all.

It is an imaginary world - Renown doesn't even exist in the real world.

So that makes decay a metaphysical construct.

Decay is the yin to Renown's yang. One cannot exist without the other.

Decay is what feeds the elemental that drive your ship, it is what pays the captain to drive the ship, the first mate and the rest of the hidden crew to pilot and patch and repair the ship. It pays for the Kobold advertising agency to keep your guild's name out in the public - telling people and monsters alike to fear your guild, which in turn helps generate more renown for heroic and memorable acts of valor and bravery.

I don't care - that part is behind the curtain.

Like I have said - the proposed system assigns a reasonable amount of decay to all guilds in an without favoritism - and most guilds currently experiencing decay will actually see very little change in the amount of decay.

[UurlockYgmeov]

You think a level 100 solo guild should only have to pay 250 decay per day,

Stop twisting my words.

Stop trying to hide my proposal behind lots of flippity flap and poor attempts at slight-of-hand.

[eris2323]

Stop twisting my words.

Stop trying to hide my proposal behind lots of flippity flap and poor attempts at slight-of-hand.

I am not twisting your words; math is twisting your words.

Blame Math; not me.

I just plugged some numbers in, and found out what you wanted.

Oh, I forgot; you want to keep the small bonus.

So I guess to be fair, what you really want, is for a level 100 solo guild to only pay 250 decay per day, while still gaining 150% bonus to all renown gained.

My mistake And it's getting late, and to be fair, I'm not really sure any more if your proposal still had the small guild bonus or not. Maybe I can be generous; and we can just say you want all solo LEVEL 100 guilds to only pay 250 decay per day, without the bonus; I dunno.

[UurlockYgmeov]

I am not twisting your words; math is twisting your words.

Blame Math; not me.

I just plugged some numbers in, and found out what you wanted.

you are twisting my words to suit your concepts. Time to debunk your attempt to twist my words.

First - if a guild of say one member makes it to level 100 after 50 million (plus decay) (after about 5 years) then they do deserve it. Just that they will have a minimum guild size of one all the time so will always have decay, even if no ones logs in for a month. That same guild has all the burden of the upkeep of the amenities - and not to mention buying the ships with plat and real money.

Now if a guild of say 1000 reaches level 100 and the leader decides to boot all the accounts but his - well, that will automatically loose the guild about 12.5 million renown, and cause the decay to max out for at least two weeks (at around 250,000 renown a day) - which will cost the guild another 3.5 million renown for a total of 16 million renown. Oops, instant level 88.

Now lets say the guild leader is crafty and staggers the bootings. Still will cost 12.5 million renown just in the bootings, and will increase the guilds modified size for an even greater period, resulting in even more renown loss because of artificially inflating the modified size due to bootings. On top of that - most guild members would get the hint and abandon ship causing the ship to capsize on the captain.

You try to twist my words and now have them straightened.

I agree the penalties need to be stiffened, but still as they currently are they are enough of a deterrent to this behavior to make it not happen. Even if it happens, well it is the guild right to be as they wish.

[eris2323]

you are twisting my words to suit your concepts. Time to debunk your attempt to twist my words.

First - if a guild of say one member makes it to level 100 after 50 million (plus decay) (after about 5 years) then they do deserve it. Just that they will have a minimum guild size of one all the time so will always have decay, even if no ones logs in for a month. That same guild has all the burden of the upkeep of the amenities - and not to mention buying the ships with plat and real money.

Now if a guild of say 1000 reaches level 100 and the leader in decides to boot all the accounts buy his - well, that will automatically loose the guild about 12.5 million renown, and cause the decay to max out for at least two weeks (at around 250,000 renown a day) - which will cost the guild another 3.5 million renown for a total of 16 million renown.

Now lets say the guild leader is crafty and staggers the bootings. Still will cost 12.5 million renown just in the bootings, and will increase the guilds modified size for an even greater period, resulting in even more renown loss because of artificially inflating the modified size due to bootings. On top of that - most guild members would get the hint and abandon ship causing the ship to capsize on the captain.

You try to twist my words and now have them straightened.

I agree the penalties need to be stiffened, but still as they currently are they are enough of a deterrent to this behavior to make it not happen. Even if it happens, well it is the guild right to be as they wish.

How am I twisting your words?

Your forumla says you want a guild of level 100, of a single player, to pay only 250 decay per day.

If you think that's a problem, don't blame me, blame your formula.

I personally don't believe your formula is fair at all to large guilds, and you seem to insist it will be - even thought it is blatantly obvious - you want solo guilds of level 100 to only pay 250 decay per day, and meanwhile, you want other guilds to pay based on how many players they have.

I think that is way too cheap, and your other suggestions are overpowered as well.