Elite crucible spiked swim

[sandypaws]

So, I was swimming through Crucible elite with my rogue (with improved evasion) the other night, and got hit by a trap for 260 points of damage (rolled a 1).

My understanding was that improved evasion halved all reflex-save-based damage on failed rolls, even if those rolls happen to be a 1. Are these traps -really- hitting for 500 points of damage on normal fails? Is my improved evasion buggy?

[Kadran]

I just did this on elite, on a level 14 fighter. I was hit 3 times, all for about 150 a pop. I just chugged some pots under water and carried on.

Your best bet to avoiding damage is to avoid the spikes altogether. Evasion should play a very small roll in there.

[Hamlin]

Ignore Kadran, he's trolling. He's full of **** on both his class and how much damage he took.

I'm curious to see if someone has a real answer to your question too.

[sandypaws]

I just did this on elite, on a level 14 fighter. I was hit 3 times, all for about 150 a pop. I just chugged some pots under water and carried on.

Your best bet to avoiding damage is to avoid the spikes altogether. Evasion should play a very small roll in there.

I did succeed, and I did drink pots. I just find it hard to believe that these things are hitting for 500 points of damage.

[locus]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was that high; hard was high 200s on my arti when I ran it near-level. Swim skill is super helpful here - and swimming backwards against the current constantly.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I do not know the exact answer, but I beleive you get hit by more than one spike in a short period of time.... like 3-8ish.

And uhm... yes.... on elite those things hit for extremely high damage.

Some players say they can go through there and not get hit.... I cannot.

Oh... I do beileve it is possible, but just very difficult.

For one thing the current is strong. And I doubt most players have any Swim skill to speak of.

I suppose that you could ractice this on casual until you feel confident in doing the swim, but I can think of better ways to spend my game time.

I have long been upset at how Turbine chose to beef up traps with no thought about how specific traps would impact the players.

This Swim is a required part of a flagging dungeon.
An other wise good dungeon, but it has two parts that require people to pass by traps to complete.

By making these traps hit super hard, they have made this quest too difficult for most players to complete. (on elite)

Also, there is an optional chest underwater.
I have mixed feelings about this chest.
On onehand it is optional.
On the other hand so few players will ever see it, that it bothers me somewhat.

I would prefer a Crucible that had all six players in the water attempting to do the Swim.

There is plenty of spikes down there to kill someone even if the damage was greatly reduced (like by a factor of 10! Or more!)

And actually, my Rogues die more often from trying to grab the Horn from those overpowered Gnolls than from the spikes in the water.

Yes, there are some ways to sneak past them, but if you get seen..... BAM! ding.

Really takes the fun out of the quest for me...

I'm either the dead Rogue in the water or the bored guy waiting above.

and besides being bored, I feel real useless and depresses when there is another dead Rogue under the water somewhere... and I just know we are about to recal and give up.

[sandypaws]

And actually, my Rogues die more often from trying to grab the Horn from those overpowered Gnolls than from the spikes in the water.

Re: the gnolls
Invis scrolls/clickies are your friend. Sneak about half way towards the gnolls, highlight the horn. Pop out of stealth, charge (while still invis), grab the horn, skidaddle out. Your footsteps will make 'em scatter a bit making the horn easier to access. No finesse, but effective.
Regarding the spike, it was definitely one hit for 250ish. Not multiple hits of 50ish, so I don't think it was a multi-hit issue.

[MrCow]

My last video record of the trap, from Update 14, has the spikes in the swimming part of The Crucible doing ~270 damage on Elite (on a fully failed save, assuming a full party).

[Shade]

You aren't intended to be getting hit and relying on evasion to complete that section of the quest. So yes the high damage is 100% correct. The final quest in this chain (the raid) feature spikes that do even more damage, and have absolutely no saving throw allowed.. So consider yourself lucky they even allow one.

It's entirely doable on a 0 swim, 1 hp character. I and hundreds of others done it many times on sub 250hp sub10 swim skill characters without taking a hit.

In Pen and Paper, a reflex save against a spike trap is to indicate your character physically dodged the trap. In DDO, it's an entirely uneccesary mecahnic, since you control the character, so you can dodge the trap yourself - all the spikes are infact purposefully designed to be dodgeable. Offering double the chance to do so is something they really should only offer on lower difficulties, not the maximum possibly difficulty allowed.

Not every player is meant to be able to beat every elite quest. It's called elite for a reason. There are three lower modes where you can get through with zero player skill, thats more then enough imo.

The other gianthold quest are just too easy on elite these days due to improvements in player power. They were equally difficult when they were first release, and in fact most considered Madstone elite to be more difficult then crucible.

[Shade]

My last video record of the trap, from Update 14, has the spikes in the swimming part of The Crucible doing ~270 damage on Elite (on a fully failed save).

Knowing you generally solo in your videos, then that would be a scaled down hit, so taking the damage the op mention should be entirely possible in a full group.

Really its a very well balance amount. Low enough that a very tough character could take a hit and heal up to continue on (keep in mind things like PRR and DR both apply to physical traps), but high enough to be challenging as it should be for elite.

[Viisari]

I did succeed, and I did drink pots. I just find it hard to believe that these things are hitting for 500 points of damage.

They're supposed to kill you.

This means that they're not hitting hard enough yet.

[sandypaws]

My last video record of the trap, from Update 14, has the spikes in the swimming part of The Crucible doing ~270 damage on Elite (on a fully failed save, assuming a full party).

Hm, thanks for the reference point, MrCow. I will have to go put my non-evasion characters in traps to compare damage totals, since it sounds like an improved evasion being borked thing. Augh.

[MRMechMan]

I ended up doing the swim 3x in one run (don't ask) last life on my 9sorc/1ranger/6monk.

I must have made at least 50 evades, yes, my swimming skills SUCK.


Better to be lucky than good .


That being said, they hit for around ~250 iirc, at MOST maybe 300 with full 6 person elite scaling. Perhaps as low as 150 shortman but for that quest I seem to generally have 4-6 people in group. 500+ does not seem realistic at all. That is elite monestary or maybe some EE traps...seems very high for the swim even with the new harder hitting versions that accompanied spellpower.

Was it ACTUALLY 260 in 1 shot or possibly 2? Rolling 2x fails is a small possibility especially if you didn't have 40+ reflex...and if you had to make 1 save there is a good chance you had to make at least 1 other.

Even if you only fail on a 1, thats a 1/400 chance if you had to make 2 saves of failing both times. Fail on a 1 or 2 and it is up to 1/100 chance, 1-3 1/44, 1-4 1/25, 1-5 1/16 chance...so those last few points can make a big difference. The DC is high 30s or low 40ish.

The other possibility is that your IE is bugged...260 is right around where I would expect a none IE-fail to be.

[nibel]

Not every player is meant to be able to beat every elite quest. It's called elite for a reason. There are three lower modes where you can get through with zero player skill, thats more then enough imo.

^This.

In my opinion, Elite should be made harder and have absolutelly no scaling. Elite should be a difficulty where you WANT a full party to complete. Soloing a elite quest should be an achievment.

Said that, Crucible is amazingly fun... for the one doing the reflex/swim stuff. The rest is just bored waiting for thing to complete by itself.

[sirgog]

There is a way another party member can turn off the underwater current in that quest. I recommend searching for it.

[Titus_Ovid]

was hit for 188 with norm evasion (reflex 30) on elite on full group just 1 hour ago.

swim +15 and a str around 26+ lets you hold the current. navigating is still tricky though.

[sandypaws]

Was it ACTUALLY 260 in 1 shot or possibly 2? Rolling 2x fails is a small possibility especially if you didn't have 40+ reflex...and if you had to make 1 save there is a good chance you had to make at least 1 other.
The other possibility is that your IE is bugged...260 is right around where I would expect a none IE-fail to be.

It was definitely 250-260ish in one shot, going by the combat log. My improved evasion is working now, so either it wasn't working then or there's something weird about those particular traps that doesn't allow for improved evasion.

There is a way another party member can turn off the underwater current in that quest. I recommend searching for it.

First time I've ever heard of this. There will be an evening of just me and the Crucible. And maybe a party of really bored people.
...you're not just yanking my chain, right?

[Viisari]

First time I've ever heard of this. There will be an evening of just me and the Crucible. And maybe a party of really bored people.
...you're not just yanking my chain, right?

Most people actually use it a lot already but don't realize it works for the other swimming bit too...

[glowbug]

If i remember correctly, turning off the current only last for 15 sec or so.. so the person swimming the trap portion could be put in a very bad spot if the current comes back when they are not expecting it...

If you have a good swimmer it may actually be easier for them to do it with the current on for predictability reasons... if you are relying on a bag o HP's chugging pots underwater then turning off the current is surely the way to go.

as for *Where*, I see no need to make you run (swim) around like a headless chicken. The first time you see water in that quest, you are swimming against the current to get to the 2nd horn in the gated trap gauntlet. If you were to swim with the current (to the right) instead of going up to the trap room, there is a small room at the bottom of the water on your Right with a valve.

Edit: bad memory!

[BOgre]

Most people actually use it a lot already but don't realize it works for the other swimming bit too...

This. When this Eureka moment happened to me, I was both ecstatic and stupefied. I was SO stoked that I'd stumbled on an way to make that swim easier, and at the same time so bummed that I'd never figured it out until then, having died in there sooo many times

Along with The Pit and Coalescence Chamber, Crucible is one of the funnest quests in the game. (flame on).