Partycrashes suggestion......

[Impaqt]

I really want to love that quest, but unless you happen to have some ranged juggernaut the Elevated marks of shadows just kill the enjoyment of the quest. Every TR I try to enjoy that quest(I mostly solo to Gianthold) and every time I end up walking away from it frustrated because it takes so long to destroy the marks I have to range. That hallway with the duplicates is just stupid.

Theres no good reason why the marks have to have so many hit points. At least make them vulnerable to an element for extra damage or somethin...

It would be a Great quest if it didnt take 10-20 minutes just to get TO the actual quest.

[fco-karatekid]

construct bane or smiting (depending upon your level) make a huge difference.

[Impaqt]

construct bane or smiting (depending upon your level) make a huge difference.

yes, those are incredibly common at level 5-7.. sill me.....

[Simplesimon1979]

If you have a crafter or access to someone with crafting you can put construct bane on whatever weapon you want.

[azrael4h]

If you have a crafter or access to someone with crafting you can put construct bane on whatever weapon you want.

And you'll still be using a bow or returning thrower on someone who is designed to melee.

And there's not anyway to spot the correct mark either, that I've found. I've ran it as a Rogue, Bard with trap skills, Exploiter Ranger, and an Artificer. No spot, no search. I've ran it as a Sorcerer as well, with no arcane way to find it.

[FranOhmsford]

And you'll still be using a bow or returning thrower on someone who is designed to melee.

And there's not anyway to spot the correct mark either, that I've found. I've ran it as a Rogue, Bard with trap skills, Exploiter Ranger, and an Artificer. No spot, no search. I've ran it as a Sorcerer as well, with no arcane way to find it.

People keep telling me that True Seeing works - Not for me it doesn't.
I've been told that {I think this was on the DDOWiki} letting a summon/hireling go thru the barrier first makes the closest mark the real one - Worked once but not the next time.

I agree that this one part of the quest really brings the enjoyment factor down of what is an incredibly well made quest overall.
BUT I'll say once again that for me this entire chain needs moving up 2 {TWO} Levels to Lvl 7 in the adventure compendium:
The Snitch - Move to Pt 1. Will require mob changes to bring up the difficulty of what is by far the easiest quest in the chain {Rusty aside}.
Small Problem - Move to Pt 2 {This is a Lvl 7 quest already in all but name - DO NOT CHANGE MOBS STATS!}
Partycrashers - Pt 3 Runes are ridiculously high requirements for a lvl 5 quest - They're higher than Tear of Dhakaan {Lvl 7} or Xorian Cypher {Lvl 8} for goodness sake.
Diplo Requirements will also be more realistic if this was a Lvl 7 quest on Normal {9 on Elite}.
Again no changes to mobs required or wanted.
Big Top - Lvl 5 quest as is - Big changes to TRASH mobs required to bring up to par with hard Lvl 7 quests like The Pit and Taming the Flames.

To be fair I find Necro 1 to be far far easier on Elite {incl Bloody Crypt a Lvl 6 quest} than all But The Snitch from Carnival.
The Lvl 5 3 Barrel quests aren't in the same league as Partycrashers or Small Problem for Difficulty and a bit behind Big Top.
The hardest F2P Lvl 5 quest for me is Lair of Summoning - Probably on par with Big Top - Not even close to Partycrashers or Small Problem.
As for Delera's - Mystery would really benefit from being moved up to Lvl 6 anyway - I've given up trying to run this for Bravery as I'm not touching Pts 2-4 Till Lvl 9.

[Missing_Minds]

People keep telling me that True Seeing works - Not for me it doesn't.

True seeing does work. I do so often.

I do not know if graphic settings make a difference. I play with settings cranked. Perhaps this is a difference? I don't know. Post processing effect maybe?

Fake are purple, real is yellow (I think that is correct at least). Given that they rotate, and the symbols are planar it can take a bit to find it.

As far as the gripe about the symbols HP... meh. whatever. The game has a party in mind. Choose solo if you want to solo, other wise you get to deal with what was determined for a party.
Does it make for a better game? I don't know, and I won't go there either. But I do feel that Disjunction should one shot it.

[FranOhmsford]

True seeing does work. I do so often.

I do not know if graphic settings make a difference. I play with settings cranked. Perhaps this is a difference? I don't know. Post processing effect maybe?

Fake are purple, real is yellow (I think that is correct at least). Given that they rotate, and the symbols are planar it can take a bit to find it.

As far as the gripe about the symbols HP... meh. whatever. The game has a party in mind. Choose solo if you want to solo, other wise you get to deal with what was determined for a party.
Does it make for a better game? I don't know, and I won't go there either. But I do feel that Disjunction should one shot it.

I've gone in there with a number of characters who either have the Voice and Mantle on or can cast True Seeing and I've NEVER seen a Yellow Rune.

As for Kmnh vs Impaqt - Sorry Imp but K is right on this one - The Spike Traps CANNOT be disabled and are completely random - If you're standing in that room attacking runes for 10 minutes you're gonna get hit and those spikes do serious dmg.
I agree however that with the sheer amount of runes in that room and the fact that this is a Lvl 5 quest {7 on Elite} where True Seeing isn't exactly common {even if it does work for most people who have it} that those runes simply have too many HP.

[Miow]

as far as i know the only way i use to spot the correct one is true seeing ....again not something you have...the shatterbow might make a decent mark destroyer btw.

[eris2323]

Have true seeing. Make sure your video post effects is on.

Then it will be a different color.

[macubrae]

...the easiest time I had in that hallway has always been with an Arty. Three hits a volly or hit EF just to get it over with faster at 6th level. Being that it counts as a construct, you may want to use adamantine throwing weapons or ammo if they have DR.

[FranOhmsford]

...the easiest time I had in that hallway has always been with an Arty. Three hits a volly or hit EF just to get it over with faster at 6th level. Being that it counts as a construct, you may want to use adamantine throwing weapons or ammo if they have DR.

Obviously yes Artis have a huge advantage here BUT going off topic a sec:

The biggest issue I find at Lvl 6-8 as an Arti is lack of HP {Not being able to fit Toughness till Lvl 9} - Dmg Spikes in Partycrashers can be pretty high and Artis have no more luck saving vs those illusionary spikes than any other class.

[Gadget2775]

True seeing definitely works. Usually use the Voice/Mantel combo. Makes the real mark a different color. Shadow Walk might if you have access...Just a guess, but it makes the Elminster messages glow purple, so might affect the Shadow Marks as well.

[Fefnir_2011]

If you range the mark at the far end of the hall without ever actually going into the hall, all of the marks are the real mark. This makes it easy to just hit the mark that spawns in front of the divider between the doors.

[-Avalon-]

Hmmm, I see, it takes 15-20 minutes to get to the actual quest when soloing because it requires you to do all sorts of things, that are very difficult to fit into one single character because you are soloing?

Maybe there is the problem... that quest is designed more for a group than most quests at low level... Not sure I ever saw a decently balanced group have ANY problems in there, just buzz right past each room/obstacle, quest done in under 10 minutes... you are soloing, and taking a long time, BECAUSE you are soloing.

Not saying don't solo, but some quests are more group-oriented than others, and you can only fit so much capability into one single character... I love soloing, every 3 nights, I solo chronoscope on elite... I buzz through every single fight in the entire quest... except for 3 fights: Blood Plate, Razor Arm, CAD... each of those fights takes like 10 minutes... TEN minutes, where I am in absolutely no danger whatsoever... but because I am only one person (albeit an 18 lvl person), I just cannot pump out the amount of DPS that a full raid could... so, takes me about 35-40 minutes to complete the raid solo. 10x3 + 5 to 10 for EVERYTHING else (including getting all survivors, killing the air support and all that)

Just gotta deal with the downfalls of soloing if you choose to solo.

[FranOhmsford]

Hmmm, I see, it takes 15-20 minutes to get to the actual quest when soloing because it requires you to do all sorts of things, that are very difficult to fit into one single character because you are soloing?

Maybe there is the problem... that quest is designed more for a group than most quests at low level... Not sure I ever saw a decently balanced group have ANY problems in there, just buzz right past each room/obstacle, quest done in under 10 minutes... you are soloing, and taking a long time, BECAUSE you are soloing.

Not saying don't solo, but some quests are more group-oriented than others, and you can only fit so much capability into one single character... I love soloing, every 3 nights, I solo chronoscope on elite... I buzz through every single fight in the entire quest... except for 3 fights: Blood Plate, Razor Arm, CAD... each of those fights takes like 10 minutes... TEN minutes, where I am in absolutely no danger whatsoever... but because I am only one person (albeit an 18 lvl person), I just cannot pump out the amount of DPS that a full raid could... so, takes me about 35-40 minutes to complete the raid solo. 10x3 + 5 to 10 for EVERYTHING else (including getting all survivors, killing the air support and all that)

Just gotta deal with the downfalls of soloing if you choose to solo.

Sorry but no - This isn't about soloing - I've been in plenty of at level groups that have had issues with Partycrashers thank you and tbh coming from someone who regularly solos a RAID....Well....

The fact is that my Rogues {yes rogues - They need a balanced party too} can't solo Elite Partycrashers at Level - I wouldn't even attempt it - I look for groups but as I assume you know the majority opinion on these forums seems to be that it doesn't matter who you have in your group just get on with it + IP speeds up LFMs unbelievably.

The quest itself is {like all quests soloable by the right player with the right build already - Artificer is incredibly strong at low levels no matter what quest in my view and shouldn't be used to invalidate our views on this specific quest.
And yes the repeater x-bow/rune-arm/dog combo can come in very handy in Partycrashers {If the arti doesn't get him/herself one-shot by the undisarmable and random spikes}.
Make those spikes disarmable and my issues with this quest disappear entirely - tbh I'd prefer the gusts of wind to be undisarmable myself {They don't deal dmg - just irritation}.

I regularly speak up on these forums about the lack of high lvl traps with proper DCs for their levels {Cabal for One optional being the highest I know of at 72 - Lvl 15!}.
I have no issues with the devs making a trapper an essential part of this quest {and a few others} - It might help change some people's attitudes to those of us who actually like to play trappers even on first life brand new characters with no gear or knowledge that the two trap feats are in essence a newbie trap!

We already have a number of quests in the game where the devs have tried to make sure we need to party up - Of course it's been proved that everyone of these quests can be run solo.
I'd say that this ^ means the devs didn't get those quests right after all.

Some people like the idea that every single quest is solo-able - tbh I can see their issues with not wanting to be reliant on finding a rogue or a cleric etc.
However:
Rangers in D&D are Trappers too - Give Rangers Disable as a class skill.
Wizards and Sorcs have Knock available {and Detect Secret Doors of course}.
Find Traps {Spell} needs revising for DDO - Should allow for Divines to attempt to disable traps too.

Certain classes do have issues healing themselves yes BUT the game already allows for people to get around this - In my view perhaps a bit too much - The issue of Healing Amp now becoming as much a necessity as Hvy Fort, Toughness etc.
Pretty soon we're going to have every single item slot dictated to us upon creating a character!

[-Avalon-]

Sorry but no - This isn't about soloing - I've been in plenty of at level groups that have had issues with Partycrashers thank you

Apparently it is, "I mostly solo to Gianthold" original post, please read it. Also, just because you are unlucky and get a group that has issues, does not make it a problem for everyone...

and tbh coming from someone who regularly solos a RAID....Well....

Wow, so comparing my abilities to solo a 6th lvl raid at 18, and saying that my advice is invalidated just because of that? I was saying that even at 18th lvl it takes me 10 minutes of just sitting there watching my toon hack away at an enemy because even at 18 I don't do enough DPS to equal 12 6-8 lvl people combined. Fact of being a more "tank"ish toon... I can solo all sorts of content, but there are some areas that trip me up... I deal with it, so should the OP, it is part of soloing, some quests will have those small areas that are just built opposite of your character's build... you cannot be the complete superman toon, it does not exist. THIS happens to be his weak spot, either adapt and overcome, or move on to something else, or *gasp* get a group! (and read #1, most groups have no problems from all that I have seen and/or experienced personally)

The fact is that my Rogues {yes rogues - They need a balanced party too} can't solo Elite Partycrashers at Level - I wouldn't even attempt it - I look for groups but as I assume you know the majority opinion on these forums seems to be that it doesn't matter who you have in your group just get on with it + IP speeds up LFMs unbelievably.

And where is the problem here? Cannot solo at-level content? Awesome! WAI then. Game is not built around soloing; Soloing is a side-effect that some people have found ways to accomplish, so it exists, it is NOT what the devs intend, and they have said as much several times. So if your rogue cannot solo at-lvl content? Cool... where is your point?

The quest itself is {like all quests soloable by the right player with the right build already - Artificer is incredibly strong at low levels no matter what quest in my view and shouldn't be used to invalidate our views on this specific quest.

I disagree due to lack of room to fit toughness, but whatever... certain builds/certain players is true. If you play the right build after 5-10 past lives, and have tons of hand-me-down loots, then yeah, you can solo very well... someone who just started game but is an expert at PnP D&D... not so well, they can make a very efficient toon, but they have none of the extra DDO benefits. One cannot compare the average 32-36 pt build with 3+ past life feats and gear that was banked for them the previous life...

Soloing is a side-effect, not what the dev's intended.

And yes the repeater x-bow/rune-arm/dog combo can come in very handy in Partycrashers {If the arti doesn't get him/herself one-shot by the undisarmable and random spikes}.
Make those spikes disarmable and my issues with this quest disappear entirely - tbh I'd prefer the gusts of wind to be undisarmable myself {They don't deal dmg - just irritation}.

I agree, those spikes suck... good thing there are easy ways to avoid them =/

I regularly speak up on these forums about the lack of high lvl traps with proper DCs for their levels {Cabal for One optional being the highest I know of at 72 - Lvl 15!}.
I have no issues with the devs making a trapper an essential part of this quest {and a few others} - It might help change some people's attitudes to those of us who actually like to play trappers even on first life brand new characters with no gear or knowledge that the two trap feats are in essence a newbie trap!

/agreed... sort of... I agree with the DC's being out of control... Servants of the Overlord has that chest with a 60 DC Open Lock... yeah, a wee bit high there, almost completely destroys a caster's chance to knock... pretty much only time a caster gets to use knock is when they are completing ancient stuff where they are many levels over the content... all due to the devs having some love affair with making sure rogues are necessary (Ummm, hello, traps??? they already ARE needed, make knock a worthwhile spell please?)

As for rogues being useful or wanted... I absolutely love having a rogue on board on every quest, they are just generally useful for all sorts of stuff...

We already have a number of quests in the game where the devs have tried to make sure we need to party up - Of course it's been proved that everyone of these quests can be run solo.
I'd say that this ^ means the devs didn't get those quests right after all.

Some people like the idea that every single quest is solo-able - tbh I can see their issues with not wanting to be reliant on finding a rogue or a cleric etc.
However:
Rangers in D&D are Trappers too - Give Rangers Disable as a class skill.
Wizards and Sorcs have Knock available {and Detect Secret Doors of course}.
Find Traps {Spell} needs revising for DDO - Should allow for Divines to attempt to disable traps too.

I agree, but see knock above... with DC's being so far out of whack, these spells would be parlor tricks in the game. "Hey! Watch as I open this 10th lvl lock with my masterful 20th lvl (4 Epic) Magic!!" =/

Find traps would be same thing... Gain a bonus to search of 1/2 Cleric lvl, would become gain bonus to search and DD of 1/2 cleric level... so, what would your cleric be disarming with that big bad 10 DD? even if they made it even, 20 DD? Like I said, parlor tricks... I agree with giving the skill to others tho, but only in controlled ways... Like Search/Disable/OL should be open as cross-class skills at worst for all dwarves (they are the mechanics/tinkerers right?), OL/DD should be cross-class for anyone who has least mark of making... and rangers? /shrug... not sure what to do with them.

Certain classes do have issues healing themselves yes BUT the game already allows for people to get around this - In my view perhaps a bit too much - The issue of Healing Amp now becoming as much a necessity as Hvy Fort, Toughness etc.
Pretty soon we're going to have every single item slot dictated to us upon creating a character!

There is some truth to this, but there always has been, the slots just get changed around... there will always be a "this is the perfect gear setup" type belief...

[FranOhmsford]

Apparently it is, "I mostly solo to Gianthold" original post, please read it. Also, just because you are unlucky and get a group that has issues, does not make it a problem for everyone...

Just because the OP's situation is not as bad as has been made out does not mean there isn't a problem.

The reason I specified that my "Rogues weren't able to solo Elite Partycrashers at level is because going by this thread the only thing stopping this quest from being regularly soloed is the traps - Yeah right!
If the traps were the only problem then no groups would be able to get a Rogue for this quest {given human nature all those Rogues would simply solo it wouldn't they?}.

But what we have at the moment {still} is a lack of Trappers specifically {Yes I know Rogues are DPS - Unfortunately it's actually not all that easy to get top trap skills on a DPS Rogue without meta-game Knowledge - And unfortunately there are many many Rogues in game who don't meet the criteria these forums expect.
Mine are still too weak DPS wise in the main BECAUSE I make d@rn sure I can get the traps.

As for Knock - We already have an issue I've highlighted in other threads where some DCs are so high that an at level Wizard has to actually roll a 20 {if he can get it at all} on the dice.
Restless Isles has 2 of these {a trash chest and a Door}.

Back in AD&D 2nd Ed. Knock was an Insta-pass - At low levels in DDO the +20 from the spell pretty much guarantees it still is BUT as you progress beyond Lvl 10 frankly Knock becomes weaker and weaker {Don't get me started on the uselessness of various Knock Wands!}.

What I was saying is that given the obviously needed boosts to Knock and Find Traps we'd have more classes capable of doing Part of a Rogue's Job {Not replacing said Rogue as Arti has almost managed to do}.
Give Rangers Disable and you now have 3 Classes capable of Disabling traps and 5 Classes capable of Opening Locks {Knock AND/OR Open Locks should perhaps be given to Bards too}.
Find Traps just gives Divines the option to stay pure instead of taking those 2 Rogue Levels that really don't fit Lore wise.

Your example got up my nose {and perhaps I did take it the wrong way} because too often a person's valid views are pooh poohed by someone claiming that soloing is easy {in fact that the entire game is TOO easy - In direct opposition to my own experiences}. I apologize.

P.S. I do think that a PURE Rogue should be better suited to high level traps than a Wizard with 2 Rogue Levels - Changing Search to Wisdom and Disable to Dex would help here - Rogues would be less MAD whereas Wiz/Rogues would have to put points into more than just Int and Con.
It would also help Ranger trappers.

[Loromir]

Hmmm, I see, it takes 15-20 minutes to get to the actual quest when soloing because it requires you to do all sorts of things, that are very difficult to fit into one single character because you are soloing?

Maybe there is the problem... that quest is designed more for a group than most quests at low level... Not sure I ever saw a decently balanced group have ANY problems in there, just buzz right past each room/obstacle, quest done in under 10 minutes... you are soloing, and taking a long time, BECAUSE you are soloing.

Not saying don't solo, but some quests are more group-oriented than others, and you can only fit so much capability into one single character... I love soloing, every 3 nights, I solo chronoscope on elite... I buzz through every single fight in the entire quest... except for 3 fights: Blood Plate, Razor Arm, CAD... each of those fights takes like 10 minutes... TEN minutes, where I am in absolutely no danger whatsoever... but because I am only one person (albeit an 18 lvl person), I just cannot pump out the amount of DPS that a full raid could... so, takes me about 35-40 minutes to complete the raid solo. 10x3 + 5 to 10 for EVERYTHING else (including getting all survivors, killing the air support and all that)


Just gotta deal with the downfalls of soloing if you choose to solo.

Just out of curiosity...why do you run Chrono so often? I can understand why one would run it on epic, but why heroic?

[Hawkwier]

True seeing works.

It makes the "real" mark yellow.

The others remain purple.

Good luck!