Do something decent with the Antipode wraps...

[Brannigan]

Come on, do something decent with the Antipode wraps, I mean compared to alot of the other weapon loots / upgrades from a major raid they suck..

Everyone says they suck - make them into something decent at least.

:P

[Saravis]

Yes please

/signed

[Fafnir]

Agree

[Sarnind]

/signed

[Munkenmo]

they're actually not terrible for a w/f monk.

you say they suck but compared to what? random loot? almost all weapons have that problem atm.

Compared to named wraps.

they're better than grave wrappings from a dps view point (esp given my manslayer prevents soul eatings neg levels)
they don't compete with burst tod rings, and are easier to acquire than alchemicals.
antipode fills an entirely different niche to ivy wraps.

[pelaaja]

they're actually not terrible for a w/f monk.

you say they suck but compared to what? random loot? almost all weapons have that problem atm.

Compared to named wraps.

they're better than grave wrappings from a dps view point (esp given my manslayer prevents soul eatings neg levels)
they don't compete with burst tod rings, and are easier to acquire than alchemicals.
antipode fills an entirely different niche to ivy wraps.

Still, Grave wrappings and lvl 23 Ivy wraps are the best wraps there with Alchemical wraps. Grave wrappings are easy to acquire. Besides, Antipode is a raid loot, and is only somewhat useful. It must get something more. Heck i'd be fine with just getting Aligned or Metalline into it or something.

OP: /signed

[Forgeborn]

...Aligned or Metalline into it or something.

OP: /signed

Well, as Antipode has the antipodal effect, it already breaks chaos/law/evil/good DR, so just putting the aligned effect on them would be rather redundant.

though, I have to say, they're nice against anything that is true neutral.

Still, I do believe they need a broader application, being raidloot and all, so agreed on the original poster.

[redspecter23]

Add vampirism at tier 2 and life stealing at tier 3 and I think you would have the best of all the end game wraps. I think all the raid loot deserves upgrades more along this line than what they were given. Alternatively, add craftable +3 on the last tier instead for more custom options.

[fognozzel]

They should have just made the Reinforced Fists an exceptional bonus that would stack with the outfits. An extra D3 (and D6 with further upgrades) can actually add up to quite a bit of damage given monk attack speed. Adding a metal property (or even worse, metalline) would make them just too good. I don't think they should have a set of wraps that once acquired means you can put every other set of wraps you have in the bank.


Grave Wraps are better for EH and EE content because of the neg level and how much mob HP drops when you hit them with it, but that's not a failing of the Antipode wraps.

[Fafnir]

Grave Wrappings are easy to obtain and better. And you can even buy them off the AH.

[Ayseifn]

They should have just made the Reinforced Fists an exceptional bonus that would stack with the outfits.

Or maybe give them toughness and heavy fort like all the othe armours :P

[maddmatt70]

I think all weapons and gear should be improved compared to what we have been getting especially new raid or named loot. Now that being said if you monks think about this a different way i.e. that you folks have gotten 3 named wraps in the last two updates. These 3 wraps are in the top 4 for wraps (tier 3 alchemicals being the one that is not new) and now of course you want the antipode to be something more then just a useful wrap, but the best wrap.

I was wondering why wraps deserve that sort of treatment and say khopeshes or bastard swords or daggers or heavy maces or etc. do not merit that kind of treatment. I would love to get 3 different dwarven war axes to choose from for my dwarven fighter and all I got was the duegar axe of the weapon master in update 14.

[Ovrad]

I was wondering why wraps deserve that sort of treatment and say khopeshes or bastard swords or daggers or heavy maces or etc. do not merit that kind of treatment. I would love to get 3 different dwarven war axes to choose from for my dwarven fighter and all I got was the duegar axe of the weapon master in update 14.

It's simple really. It's because it's the ONLY weapon that monks can equip. Granted dwarven axes could use a bit more love, but your dwarven fighter also can equip other weapon types (if it's decent enough) without a penality.

In this case, even if you specced for dwarven axes, you could use any slashing one-handers as well, so: axes, bastard swords, handaxes, kopeshes, kukris, longswords, scimitars and sickle. That's 8 options that, while maybe not optimal, doesn't penalize you and, with good stats, could be better for you. If you count all those, you got way more than 3 options in update 14.

If quarterstaves and kamas didn't horribly cripple monk abilities so much, they could offer more potential options, but that's not gonna change anytime soon...

[Persiflage]

they're better than grave wrappings from a dps view point (esp given my manslayer prevents soul eatings neg levels)

Sorry for the derail, but can I ask: how many people have this problem? 'Cos I've read it before, but I don't seem to be having the same trouble and I wonder what's causing it and whether any changes I make might cause the same thing to happen...

On topic: /signed.

[oweieie]

The big get with them is the 15 PRR. It's unfortunate you have to lower your DPS from random gen wraps to get it.

[redspecter23]

I think all weapons and gear should be improved compared to what we have been getting especially new raid or named loot. Now that being said if you monks think about this a different way i.e. that you folks have gotten 3 named wraps in the last two updates. These 3 wraps are in the top 4 for wraps (tier 3 alchemicals being the one that is not new) and now of course you want the antipode to be something more then just a useful wrap, but the best wrap.

I was wondering why wraps deserve that sort of treatment and say khopeshes or bastard swords or daggers or heavy maces or etc. do not merit that kind of treatment. I would love to get 3 different dwarven war axes to choose from for my dwarven fighter and all I got was the duegar axe of the weapon master in update 14.

This post is about wraps so I suggested wrap improvements. If we're expanding it to all weapons in general that I also agree that khopeshes, dwarven axes and greatswords need representation in the raid and that almost all the weapons need base item improvements and vastly better improvements than what is proposed currently for the tier 2 and 3 upgrades. Remember that just because people are talking about improving wraps, it doesn't automatically mean they have no interest in improving anything else that's subpar as well.

I like what the Antipode does and appreciate that even in the current form it's quite useful. I've been using it in the druid pack as a general weapon for the large numbers of true and partial neutral mobs there. So yes, it is a good weapon. I want the power level to feel like raid loot power level for the wraps and all Web raid loot. I think the devs put a lot of the power level of the weapons into the set bonuses. It's hard to argue that the set pairing with tier 1 upgrade is quite good for many weapons. I think what the players wanted were raid loot quality weapons at base, with improvements on top of that from the set bonus. There is a difference in expectations there between the devs and the players that I want to assume the developers didn't anticipate.

Having your "raid loot" only feel like raid loot once it's upgraded with 3 other equally difficult to acquire pieces is just making you farm out 4 pieces of raid loot to make one and that's a hard pill to swallow when all the pieces are bind to character. At least seals and shards are bind to account and scrolls are unbound. So in that 4 part process you have a lot more flexibility.

[Lord_Darquain]

You guys are crazy, I'm loving Antipode.

On a monk18+ with past life monk and EDs, I'm getting 8.5[d6] base dice before deadly weapons + 3[d6] sneak attack from ninja spy + 2[d6] tod rings + 2-4[d6] antipodal + 8 enhancement + 4 prowess set bonus (to hit AND damage).

That's 27.5-117 damage before strength and other dps gear on every single hit, and I hit more often due to doublestrike 6% and I stun more often due to stunning +10, so that's x1.5 damage on every hit before all the bonus damage from fury of the wild.

My raged out fury monk + antipode and stunning fist and stunning blow does more damage than my raged out fury barbarian with the same dps gear + stunning blow + cleaver, esos, or epic antique.

And for every cleave/great cleave my barbarian does, my monk drops more touches of death, void strikes, and mountain strikes.


Then my other monk is set up the same way but with lower strength and higher wis, and vorpal strikes instead of stunning blow. He DPSes slightly less than my maxed out barbarian per base hit but regularly vorpals in EH and very few mobs in EH save against his stunning fist or ToD for even higher net DPS effectiveness in Epic Hard, all with the same base damage quoted above.

Antipode is great!

[pelaaja]

You guys are crazy, I'm loving Antipode.

On a monk18+ with past life monk and EDs, I'm getting 8.5[d6] base dice before deadly weapons + 3[d6] sneak attack from ninja spy + 2[d6] tod rings + 2-4[d6] antipodal + 8 enhancement + 4 prowess set bonus (to hit AND damage).

That's 27.5-117 damage before strength and other dps gear on every single hit, and I hit more often due to doublestrike 6% and I stun more often due to stunning +10, so that's x1.5 damage on every hit before all the bonus damage from fury of the wild.

My raged out fury monk + antipode and stunning fist and stunning blow does more damage than my raged out fury barbarian with the same dps gear + stunning blow + cleaver, esos, or epic antique.

And for every cleave/great cleave my barbarian does, my monk drops more touches of death, void strikes, and mountain strikes.


Then my other monk is set up the same way but with lower strength and higher wis, and vorpal strikes instead of stunning blow. He DPSes slightly less than my maxed out barbarian per base hit but regularly vorpals in EH and very few mobs in EH save against his stunning fist or ToD for a net of probably even better effectiveness, all with the same base damage quoted above.

Antipode is great!

...And my emerald build can do over 120 damage on crit with Grave wrappings... and over 200 on a stunned enemy before Sense Weakness.

[Lord_Darquain]

None of that was crit math; that was per-hit math. Yesterday I was regularly critting for over 300 with Antipode on stunned enemies while leveling Draconic Incarnation. In Fury of the Wild it would be more, obviously.

[Arkat]

...And my emerald build can do over 120 damage on crit with Grave wrappings... and over 200 on a stunned enemy before Sense Weakness.

120 on crits is quite low actually. You should be getting 240-300 or so on crits. You probably need to re-think some gear, destiny, and/or stat choices.

OP, I actually like my Antipode. I'm not thrilled with the top upgrade (+0.5 W) after 15 Commendations, however. Make that top tier upgrade something cool like Lesser-Vampirism/Vampirism. At the very least, make it a full +1 W to damage.