Ip Deception ftw?

[Arkantios]

So I'm thinking about an interesting build that I doubt has been tried or has want to be tried on a rogue before. My question however, is that when you have more than 1 improved deception item such as an epic midnight greetings, seal of house avithoul, epic golden guile, and even the shadow dancer 5th lvl autogrant; will the ip deception procs group together? Will they all have separate proc rates like having multiple lit 2's or what would happen?

[Qezuzu]

Improved Deception on weapons, both weapons, will stack with worn items that give Imp. Deception.

I don't know about worn items stacking, but I doubt it.

[maximadan]

the problem with improved deception is in groups

if you blind a boss, he will lose focus on a tank and come after you instead

[Qezuzu]

if you blind a boss, he will lose focus on a tank and come after you instead

This was the case, but in an update quite awhile ago, the effect changed. It now functions as a bluff effect, rendering the target vulnerable to sneak attacks but unaffecting its aggro list.

Normal mobs will spin around, as per bluff, but red and purple names will not.

It's been awhile since I've had the chance to see this effect (I almost exclusively duo/trio these days), but I believe this is the case. At least I don't notice any spinning with bosses when I beat them down with Golden Guile and eMG.

But even if I am wrong, there's no reason to use deception effects on bosses if they're already being tanked. Though, if you have multiple players using bluff/deception, this can make a Rogue tank viable, as the boss will be perpetually vulnerable to sneak attacks from everyone. Will have to remind SWAT of this.

[Arkantios]

This was the case, but in an update quite awhile ago, the effect changed. It now functions as a bluff effect, rendering the target vulnerable to sneak attacks but unaffecting its aggro list.

Normal mobs will spin around, as per bluff, but red and purple names will not.

It's been awhile since I've had the chance to see this effect (I almost exclusively duo/trio these days), but I believe this is the case. At least I don't notice any spinning with bosses when I beat them down with Golden Guile and eMG.

But even if I am wrong, there's no reason to use deception effects on bosses if they're already being tanked. Though, if you have multiple players using bluff/deception, this can make a Rogue tank viable, as the boss will be perpetually vulnerable to sneak attacks from everyone. Will have to remind SWAT of this.

See that's what I'm actually thinking of, though instead of having a normal tank I'm trying to make a pure rogue that is veritile enough to be able to tank this way.

[eclipse668]

See that's what I'm actually thinking of, though instead of having a normal tank I'm trying to make a pure rogue that is veritile enough to be able to tank this way.

sounds like a fun project. convince some friends to specc as support for your toon and keep me up to date please..

[Arkantios]

sounds like a fun project. convince some friends to specc as support for your toon and keep me up to date please..

Sorry havent looked on the forums for quite a while and havent been able to be on DDO for about the same time. I should hit 20 today though and Ill farm for my eGolden Guile and go try to tank something soon.

[MaximusParthas]

See that's what I'm actually thinking of, though instead of having a normal tank I'm trying to make a pure rogue that is veritile enough to be able to tank this way.

Without intimidate working as it used to, ie; "instantly grabbing agro and putting you at the top of the list", a rogue tank is very difficult now. if not impossible to make a comparable tank build to standard melees.

Not sure how you intend to tank with a deception item. Even bluff no longer works the same.

I had a great rogue tank. 2 actually. Now I have none due to the updates. I've become a member of the turbine carelessly broke my build group. Again.

To date there is only one way to tank when there used to be many. that one way is threat gen.
If you can't accumulate enough threat on a build to compete with current melee builds then your wasting your time.

[Arkantios]

Without intimidate working as it used to, ie; "instantly grabbing agro and putting you at the top of the list", a rogue tank is very difficult now. if not impossible to make a comparable tank build to standard melees.

Not sure how you intend to tank with a deception item. Even bluff no longer works the same.

I had a great rogue tank. 2 actually. Now I have none due to the updates. I've become a member of the turbine carelessly broke my build group. Again.

To date there is only one way to tank when there used to be many. that one way is threat gen.
If you can't accumulate enough threat on a build to compete with current melee builds then your wasting your time.

Interesting, well I have yet to try it out and see what i can do to tweak it. I went human for the 3 sent. dragonmarks for my eFang so thats a tidge of incite right there. Anyway thanks for the advice.

[MaximusParthas]

Interesting, well I have yet to try it out and see what i can do to tweak it. I went human for the 3 sent. dragonmarks for my eFang so thats a tidge of incite right there. Anyway thanks for the advice.

Good luck! I hope you succeed.

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

Well it seems he has capped now, I run EH lords of dust with him the other day on my fury of the wild dark monk rocking a solid dps enough to pull of some normal tanks

I did not take aggro once from kaurus only dmg i took was from his whirl-winding blades *we had no real healer so i did have to back off for a little* but from where i stood he takes very little dmg through dodge and other bonuses (seems he has some displacement clickies) and i was thoroughly impressed! All in all I believe that he can do this!

GREAT BUILD MAZE!

[Moltier]

Purple named bosses are immune to it, so thats out. Or its just not bugged on them.
Red named bosses are not immune, so imp.deception resets the aggro (normal deception was fixed long ago, improved come after that with the old bug without fix), and since rogues usually dual wield weapons, use haste boost, they attack faster, and often hit first after the reset, and get aggro. But not always, which results in a boss that turns around like crazy.
If you have a lot of melee with imp.deception, you can turn red nameds to a whirling training dummy who rarely if ever hits back.
Thats the way how even a weak melee can turn red named bosses vs maxed tanks.

Edit: We tested it quite a few months ago (but saw it happen since then many times) with a dex based rog without DR breaker vs a good intimi tank. With improved deception, more often then not, the boss turned to the rogue in seconds, even if he let the tank beat it for half a minute. Without imp.deception, he never turned the red named boss...

[Arkantios]

Yep I know about the red name thing and that's how I actually planned to take aggro, the. I have the chimera fang to possibly keep the aggro. Purple names I haven't tried yet, but I'm not too sure you're correct. I've taken aggro of the chrono end boss and Horoth numerous times by deception.

[Moltier]

Yep I know about the red name thing and that's how I actually planned to take aggro, the. I have the chimera fang to possibly keep the aggro. Purple names I haven't tried yet, but I'm not too sure you're correct. I've taken aggro of the chrono end boss and Horoth numerous times by deception.

If you somehow turn a boss every single time you fight with it, then its deception. But i never saw that happen vs good tanks. Sometimes a boss turned, but that was because the tank didnt have enough aggro. On the other hand, red nameds turn instantly when a rog touch them...

Bonus: When im tanking on my barb, purple nameds never turn. Red nameds always turn when someone using imp. deception.

[Arkantios]

Eh, well ill have 10/15/20% incite on my side as well, so im hoping that helps me a tidge bit.

[Qezuzu]

Eh, well ill have 10/15/20% incite on my side as well, so im hoping that helps me a tidge bit.

High incite will help, but you absolutely need a couple supporting party members who constantly keep the boss deceived and/or bluffed. Rogue DPS just isn't high enough without sneak attack.

[Arkantios]

High incite will help, but you absolutely need a couple supporting party members who constantly keep the boss deceived and/or bluffed. Rogue DPS just isn't high enough without sneak attack.

See that's another thing I'm trying to figure out: how many different ip deception items and effects would stack or increase the proc rate. Multiple worn items (golden guile/ring of house avithoul)? Multiple weapons? (emg/the dagger from the new raid)? Multiple actually clickie or passive effects (tier 5 shadow dancer autogrant/ bluff)? I'm incorporating most of these into my rogue to try and be able to do it by myself and not have to rely on people, though if people come with extra procs, awesome.