Expand the bravery bonus concept

[Lauf]

Doing quests that are over your level should net more xp than doing them at level.
This would encourage overpowered TRs to run quests at the highest difficulty that they can handle, rather than running quests that are 2 levels below their current one.


So for example if at the moment we would see level 7 overpowered TRs running level 5 quests on elite for bravery bonus, under the new concept we would see them attempting to run a level 11 quest.
resulting in a more challenging and enjoyable game.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Doing quests that are over your level should net more xp than doing them at level.
This would encourage overpowered TRs to run quests at the highest difficulty that they can handle, rather than running quests that are 2 levels below their current one.


So for example if at the moment we would see level 7 overpowered TRs running level 5 quests on elite for bravery bonus, under the new concept we would see them attempting to run a level 11 quest.
resulting in a more challenging and enjoyable game.

No, it wouldn't. The xp required for a TR2 is too back loaded.

[TrinityTurtle]

But if I'm 14 say, and running base level 12 quests on elite, that puts the challenge rating at level 14. Hard is +1 level and elite is +2 levels. So you're running at level quests, not 2 under you really. Unless you're running level 12 normals.

[Musouka]

But if I'm 14 say, and running base level 12 quests on elite, that puts the challenge rating at level 14. Hard is +1 level and elite is +2 levels. So you're running at level quests, not 2 under you really. Unless you're running level 12 normals.

^That pretty much debunks the suggestion.

The BB doesn't mean you have to do it underlevelled, most of the people in my guild that are running up TRs don't really do them overlevel, they are just always 2 levels over the normal CR of the quest.

[Lauf]

But if I'm 14 say, and running base level 12 quests on elite, that puts the challenge rating at level 14. Hard is +1 level and elite is +2 levels. So you're running at level quests, not 2 under you really. Unless you're running level 12 normals.

regardless if the quests are at level, or a level or two below, the fact remains people at the moment, especially TRs, aren't challenging themselves with quests above their level. mainly because there is no xp benefit in going for higher level quests, and as Lonnbeimnech put it, the TR life is too back loaded for you to run anything above the minimal requirements for bravery bonus.

which brings me back to my original proposal. if doing a higher level quest would reward you with a greater experience bonus than doing an at level quest would, and if that increase would be noticeable and significant enough, TRs would welcome the opportunity for getting more xp per quest, while at the same time this would inevitably make them strain themselves in an attempt to try as hard a quest as they can possibly handle.

the end result should hopefully be a more challenging, more rewarding play.

[Kmnh]

Doing quests that are over your level should net more xp than doing them at level.
This would encourage overpowered TRs to run quests at the highest difficulty that they can handle, rather than running quests that are 2 levels below their current one.


So for example if at the moment we would see level 7 overpowered TRs running level 5 quests on elite for bravery bonus, under the new concept we would see them attempting to run a level 11 quest.
resulting in a more challenging and enjoyable game.

Most TRs won't be convinced to run challenging content, no matter how much xp you offer. Did you see how much xp you get for each wave of undead in Ghosts of Perdition? How many parties do you see doing those?

[Chaos000]

So for example if at the moment we would see level 7 overpowered TRs running level 5 quests on elite for bravery bonus, under the new concept we would see them attempting to run a level 11 quest.
resulting in a more challenging and enjoyable game.

More challenging does not translate into more enjoyment for a lot of players.

Now if the idea was bonus experience if the highest character in the quest is lower than the level of the quest... I could get behind that.

If the character's level is above, equal to, or one level below the quest's level there is no adjustment. If it's +2, there's a +10% bonus. +3 = +25%, +4 = +50%

It's not something I would be interested in personally... The TR grind is a means to an end but it is in no way enjoyable.

If I'm using my limited game time to play this game I want a consistent gain for time invested. People that "enjoy the journey/challenge" should be allowed to continue to do so as long as it doesn't directly affect my enjoyment of the game.

[DanteEnFuego]

Most TRs won't be convinced to run challenging content, no matter how much xp you offer. Did you see how much xp you get for each wave of undead in Ghosts of Perdition? How many parties do you see doing those?

Anything I run with my guildies, even on my 8th life toon, is a challenge...

[Lauf]

Now if the idea was bonus experience if the highest character in the quest is lower than the level of the quest... I could get behind that.

If the character's level is above, equal to, or one level below the quest's level there is no adjustment. If it's +2, there's a +10% bonus. +3 = +25%, +4 = +50%

This.

Thank you for phrasing the idea better than I could.

[Kmnh]

If the character's level is above, equal to, or one level below the quest's level there is no adjustment. If it's +2, there's a +10% bonus. +3 = +25%, +4 = +50%

This would have the opposite effect. Instead of running challenging stuff, people would farm delera's at level 5 and shadow crypt at level 7 with insane xp bonuses.

[Chaos000]

This would have the opposite effect. Instead of running challenging stuff, people would farm delera's at level 5 and shadow crypt at level 7 with insane xp bonuses.

Which they will see as a good thing AND if they attempt it at lower levels it will definitely be a challenge

[Dysmetria]

regardless if the quests are at level, or a level or two below, the fact remains people at the moment, especially TRs, aren't challenging themselves with quests above their level. mainly because there is no xp benefit in going for higher level quests, and as Lonnbeimnech put it, the TR life is too back loaded for you to run anything above the minimal requirements for bravery bonus.

which brings me back to my original proposal. if doing a higher level quest would reward you with a greater experience bonus than doing an at level quest would, and if that increase would be noticeable and significant enough, TRs would welcome the opportunity for getting more xp per quest, while at the same time this would inevitably make them strain themselves in an attempt to try as hard a quest as they can possibly handle.

the end result should hopefully be a more challenging, more rewarding play.

Doing a high level quest wouldn't be rewarding TRs with more experience tho. It would be excluding them from the streak bonus experience from all the quests that high level quest would level them out of, and also leave them stuck on those thin levels racking up repeat penalties sooner.

[Ilindith]

Doing quests that are over your level should net more xp than doing them at level.
This would encourage overpowered TRs to run quests at the highest difficulty that they can handle, rather than running quests that are 2 levels below their current one.


So for example if at the moment we would see level 7 overpowered TRs running level 5 quests on elite for bravery bonus, under the new concept we would see them attempting to run a level 11 quest.
resulting in a more challenging and enjoyable game.

It would appear you have absolutely no idea how TRs work.

That idea is the best idea ever to completly screw up your exp.

When you TR, you HAVE TO run lower content because if you don't you'll run out of content at higher levels and you'll be farming **** exp for a month until you cap.

That suggestion would just make people run out of content 10x faster.

[Lonnbeimnech]

This would have the opposite effect. Instead of running challenging stuff, people would farm delera's at level 5 and shadow crypt at level 7 with insane xp bonuses.

Let's follow that train of thought a little more, and this is where I see the big problem with this topic.

Wiz king at level 10
Gh walkups at lvl 11
gh flagging and necro 4 at lvl 12
litany at lvl 13
vale at level 14
reavers refuge at lvl 15
amrath and iq at 16
dreaming dark at level 17

hit level 18 and move on to the lvl 22 quests... oh wait, you can't do eberron epics and can't enter the kings forest until level 20 and you have 1.1 mil xp to grind out before you can, and no quests left to do.

[Chaos000]

This.

Thank you for phrasing the idea better than I could.

One stipulation is that the bravery and streak bonus remains the same. Being under the quest level would net an added bonus. Current status of the game right now is you avoid farming xp on any quest that you will do with any frequency to level up your epic destiny otherwise you end up screwing yourself at endgame.

[Lauf]

When you TR, you HAVE TO run lower content because if you don't you'll run out of content at higher levels and you'll be farming **** exp for a month until you cap.

That suggestion would just make people run out of content 10x faster.

you are correct in assuming the suggestion would make you go through content relatively faster (i.e. grind less), but what you are forgetting is that while doing so, you would also be getting more exp while doing so.
if lets say you are getting 25% more exp from questing, you wouldn't need to run through each and every quest farming until your eyes bleed.

think of it as an alternate route to leveling, as it will not affect the already existing mechanisms, only add to them.

Let's follow that train of thought a little more, and this is where I see the big problem with this topic.

Wiz king at level 10
Gh walkups at lvl 11
gh flagging and necro 4 at lvl 12
litany at lvl 13
vale at level 14
reavers refuge at lvl 15
amrath and iq at 16
dreaming dark at level 17

hit level 18 and move on to the lvl 22 quests... oh wait, you can't do eberron epics and can't enter the kings forest until level 20 and you have 1.1 mil xp to grind out before you can, and no quests left to do.

you too seem to be overlooking the exp bonus for running these quests that early.
if you do start running GH walkups at level 11, you would be getting +50% for them, making you easily go through level 12 and probably 13 just from them alone. which means you won't be running GH flagging / necro 4 at 12 as you have implied, as you would already be at level 14.

so when you will be 18, you should have plenty of untouched quests all around, granted they would not be rewarding +50% on top of bravery bonus any more, as you would not be 4 levels below the quest, so at that point your exp gains would drop back to what they are today once you hit 18, but because you haven't farmed any quest up to this point, and have left quests untouched all over the place (as you're running on a +50% bonus), you should have no problem grinding your cap the same way you do now.

[Chaos000]

so when you will be 18, you should have plenty of untouched quests all around, granted they would not be rewarding +50% on top of bravery bonus any more, as you would not be 4 levels below the quest, so at that point your exp gains would drop back to what they are today once you hit 18, but because you haven't farmed any quest up to this point, and have left quests untouched all over the place (as you're running on a +50% bonus), you should have no problem grinding your cap the same way you do now.

I disagree with this. The problem will still exist and it will be MORE of a grind.

Players want a consistent (or faster) progression on a 2nd to 3rd TR the moment it slows down (like at lvl 18) in your example. It will inevitably lead to frustrated players

[Lonnbeimnech]

you too seem to be overlooking the exp bonus for running these quests that early.
if you do start running GH walkups at level 11, you would be getting +50% for them, making you easily go through level 12 and probably 13 just from them alone. which means you won't be running GH flagging / necro 4 at 12 as you have implied, as you would already be at level 14.

ok, so at 14 you have done gh walkups and now have a choice, do you want to
1. do necro 4 and gh flagging quests, get bb but not this new bonus and still be behind where you would normally be (16, holding 17, working on 18)
2. go back and do the quests you skipped over, get your first time elite completions bonus, but no bb and not this new xp bonus, and maybe an xp penalty for being over level
3. move on to vale quests for bb and the new under level bonus

so when you will be 18, you should have plenty of untouched quests all around, granted they would not be rewarding +50% on top of bravery bonus any more, as you would not be 4 levels below the quest, so at that point your exp gains would drop back to what they are today once you hit 18, but because you haven't farmed any quest up to this point, and have left quests untouched all over the place (as you're running on a +50% bonus), you should have no problem grinding your cap the same way you do now.

Burn the candle at both ends, get a bunch of xp but still be way behind where you ought to be and create an unsustanable xp vacuum, that allows you to skip over loads of low level quests and double up on the xp grind at level 18.

It's a great option for people that want to get to a certain level quickly, so long as that level isn't 20, or even 19.

[Lauf]

I think the issue can be divided into 2 parts

1. should low level players attempting a high level quest be rewarded more experience points for it?

this part should be a no-brainer. if you are suicidal enough to tackle the pit elite at level 4, and pull it off, more power to you. you've earned your exp as far as I'm concerned.

however, as things stand you would receive no more for your efforts than a level 9 would for tackling the same challenge.

so this needs to change, and I think we can all agree about that.


2. how much should you be rewarded / would this be a better way to level your toon than the current method?

I can only hope the rewards would be suitable to make it a viable alternative, emphasis being on alternative, to the current method, in which most TRs can solo most elite at level quests up to level 16+.
because frankly, breezing through them can be mind-numbing, and I would appreciate a viable alternative.


however, even if it does NOT become a viable alternative, and even if it is implemented in such a way that it will not award enough exp for power gamers to go down that path, I still believe low level players attempting a high level quest should be rewarded more experience points for doing so.