Reconstruct stealth nerfed?

[Drakesan]

Awesome. Beautiful. With all the other nerfs to WF, why am I not surprised? Good choice.

Oh, and you need to raise the price on WF AGAIN, really make an effort to **** off your player base. I don't think the last round of nerfs/price raising did enough.

[Postumus]

I think the trick is that, no disrespect to taurean430, there is no intent/reason in the way we understand it.

If Turbine's changes had reasons, no change this stupid would happen.
Changes this stupid have happened, are happening, and will continue to happen.
Ergo, their changes don't have reasons.

They just don't care. That's the mindset you have to put yourself in, not the mindset of a person who is actually trying to bring about some kind of change in gameplay, population, economics, etc.

Turbine just does not care.

I think there must be some kind of rationale behind it, but this was my biggest concern with the SP mechanic change. A dev stated that now they could more easily tweak spells to recieve full, half, or any increment of SP to help balance the game.

Reconstruct won't be the last spell that is affected in this way.

[SealedInSong]

I don't feel great about this change, mostly because I think the devs have better things to do, like fix things that are actually broken.

That said, I'd really like to see less "I'm quitting this game" threats and maybe more constructive examples and petition-signing. Or alternatives suggested.

One thing I'd like to see is construct revival--if we get things taken away from us for no reason (and unannounced, at that), it'd be nice to see something new and appropriate added, like having arcanes and artificers be able to literally reconstruct/resurrect dead constructs.

Also, I'd like for the devs to never stealth nerf things; they should always announce these changes unless it's some tiny and fun Easter egg in an item (docent of defiance, ring of lies, etc.). It really just ****es people off and reduces credibility.

[Missing_Minds]

I don't feel great about this change, mostly because I think the devs have better things to do, like fix things that are actually broken.

That said, I'd really like to see less "I'm quitting this game" threats and maybe more constructive examples and petition-signing. Or alternatives suggested.

One thing I'd like to see is construct revival

That's just it. We did give them constructive feedback when they were actively talking to us about this nerf to be.

Yeah... When people with power don't listen, they don't tend to have power over others for very long. Esp in a game when players can just walk away.

[DarkForte]

I'm already of the opinion WF are very much inferior to fleshies in both wizardry (where a fleshy pale master has higher DCs or spell pen and comparable healing) and sorcery (where the higher DCs make a difference, along with the difficulty of taking repeated hits to the face on EE even if you're a reconning toaster closing the gap). If anything, WF need a buff, not a nerf.

[countfitz]

Just FYI, this is one of those slippery slope things.

Or more along the lines of "when they came for the jews, I didn't speak out, because I wasn't a jew...when they came for me, there was no one left..."

Yeah, there was some healer rage when the heal nerf came, but not enough, and there were fanbois crying it's okay.

Look at the ED change. Unanimity on the forums, the devs are going to change ED costs (and don't you dare tell me they were REALLY going to change it in U16 and it was just a bug, that's a lie and we all know it).

If we'd been unanimous on the heal nerf, this one wouldn't have happened. Obviously.

[azrael4h]

If we'd been unanimous on the heal nerf, this one wouldn't have happened. Obviously.

You're an optimist.

At least I never found WF fun to play. So I'm only out one now-gimped Artificer thanks to an out-of-touch development team.

[tsotate]

I'm looking on the bright side. I just think of all the TP I won't have to waste buying WF when my sub is up.

[arkonas]

i don't see how they can compare heal spell to reconstruct. its just amazing they would do this. this current nerf is on lammania right now with update 16. Turbine stop stealth nerfing stuff and actually talk to us. there is no reasoning behind this. before the update i was healing myself for 309. that was fine for me. now when i was on lammania i was only healing for 237. since there is no way to increase it without actually wearing an item or maxing the line. i dont want to do that.


healing amp doesnt effect it nor is there a line for it in wf. also the spell isn't as useful as heal. Empower heal doesn't effect it either. so i just don't understand why.

[GrampaBill]

Eladrin, if you happen to be reading this thread, this is a prime example where players are (mostly) calm in stating their disagreement with how something is being done. With absolutely no input from the development staff side, it's like discussing an issue with a brick wall. THIS is why I've stated that "Demand" threads actually seem to work whereas the "Please" threads are ignored.

I fear a repeating mistake by the development staff where they think they are correct in their thought processes but are in fact wrong wrong wrong. If they would just explain these thought processes to the players there's the possibility they may come to the realization that said developer is not approaching the issue from the correct point of view. Of course, there's always the possibility of the player's realizing that the developer is traveling a true course.

Here's what drives this particular post:

You're right. =)
I didn't do any math on it, instead I just made a quick assumption, which was wrong. You're indeed right, and multiplicative stacking Healer's Friend will never catch up with the base increase.
And now, in my shame, I'll stop wasting my time on the forums and get back to fixing bugs!

I would also like you to please notice the title of the above referenced thread wherein it had to be proven to a developer that they were wrong with their thought process.

[MRMechMan]

It is not a WF nerf though.

It is a construct nerf because this effects both WF, fleshies that took "Construct Essence" feat, arti dogs, and any one that took any of the "iron companion" and use recon to repair them.

It is an iron defender nerf. But not many people use those, and if they are using recon to repair them, they are most likely warforged as well.

It is an arti dog nerf. But that is pretty minor compared to SELF healing. And, a large portion of artificers ARE warforged, at least for now.

It is a construct essence nerf. This feat is pretty useless with this change, sadly.

It is mainly, however, a warforged nerf. Warforged are the ones who suffer most from this change. Most melees are fleshie. No one plays warforged melee because with recent "balancing" human, halfelf and horc are FAR, FAR better. Warforged are only really good for 2.5 classes-arti, sorc and wizard archmage. Mostly BECAUSE of quickened self heals.

Not anymore. I see plenty of fleshie artis/sorcs/wizards, so it is not like warforged was a nobrainer. It was simply a strong option for a strong class. Why nerf options? It is so typical of them, balancing the game with a maul when it doesn't need changing at all.

Fleshie construct essence folk can swap it out and use scrolls, which will hit for more than 1/2 spellpower 50% recons anyway. An arti dog dying because your recon hit it for less than it did would be somewhat rare, and not a HUGE deal even if it did happen. No one I know even uses the iron companion feats.

It is a nerf to WF sorcs, WF arti and WF archmages. Are these classes self healing powerful? Yes.

But no moreso than fleshie fvs/clr/druids....hell, even 50% spellpower heals hit for FAR more than 100% spellpower recons, due to empower heal feat and the way healing amp stacks.

With recon now being changed to 50% spellpower as well, it isn't even close.


I am not sure what they are thinking. Mostly because they don't tell us ever. And partly because there is no reasonable justification for 50% spellpower for certain spells. Particularly reconstruct.

They say they wanted to keep those spells at pre-motu values...but with EE mobs hitting way harder AND player HP going up by about 50%, what is the big deal if recons go up 20-30%? Now they will be 5-10% lower for most players, maybe getting back to the 337 with max enh and 75% clickie going...WITH max gear, clickie going, 120 recon item, etc.

Is there some kind of formal decision making, oversight or testing that goes into the development of this game? We've got gargoyles sticking to ceilings because someone decided their death animation (that no one complained about) had to be changed.

Oh well. Another needless, poorly thought out and unexplained (unexplainable?) change to **** off the player base.

If they don't happen at least once a week, it isn't DDO.

[Persiflage]

/signed for the general utter disapproval of the change, the feeling that we're once again being bent over for having any WF toons at all, and the frustration that nobody's prepared to share their thought processes and explain how this is going to benefit the game in any way whatsoever. And +1 to MrMechMan for a well-stated summary.

Really hacked off here, for the same reasons as most in this thread.

[GrampaBill]

Eladrin, if you happen to be reading this thread . . .

Oops, I forgot the secret cookie to get a dev to respond:

[Missing_Minds]

Oops, I forgot the secret cookie to get a dev to respond:

Bad choice, because unless they've got the eyepatch, as soon as they look away they'll forget any un nerfing they may have been willing to do.

[DarkForte]

So, instead of buffing WF melees to get on par with other classes, you nerf WF casters to get to the relative strength of WF melee compared to human/helf. Delightful.

[DeafeningWhisper]

So, instead of buffing WF melees to get on par with other classes, you nerf WF casters to get to the relative strength of WF melee compared to human/helf. Delightful.

Well people *have* been asking for more balance between casters and melees.

In all seriousness it was a niche spell, that is still weaker then it's big brother "Heal", no need to nerf it to pieces.

[Credinus]

Didn't the subscription cancellation forms for DDO used to have a survey/feedback section to explain why you are cancelling?


Because it doesn't now, and I was really hoping to use that in hopes that complaints about this change would reach the right people. :\

[Kinerd]

The changes were made so that other spells could be buffed more easily with higher spell power without going overboard on spells that have high base numbers. An attempt to buff some other spells is a sign they are working towards something positive, whether everyone agrees with those changes or not. IE They demonstrated caring and good intent by providing a solution in the first place.

It could be that the devs are going to release a super-high Reconstruction item and make the base Repair line useful, yes.

However, I feel that it's overwhelmingly more likely an ill-informed executive looked at Heal, looked at Reconstruct, and dictated "hey! those should be the same!", having NO IDEA that the problem with Heal was Mass Heal (base 250 vs. 150 and Empower Heal vs. NO Empower Repair and clerics having to max the heal line vs. wizards never maxing the repair line and and and and and).

I do like to give people the benefit of the doubt. When certain people have taken that and slapped me in the face with it over and over, I am naturally inclined to conclude that they no longer deserve that benefit.

Just FYI, this is one of those slippery slope things.

Or more along the lines of "when they came for the jews, I didn't speak out, because I wasn't a jew...when they came for me, there was no one left..."

Yeah, there was some healer rage when the heal nerf came, but not enough, and there were fanbois crying it's okay.

Look at the ED change. Unanimity on the forums, the devs are going to change ED costs (and don't you dare tell me they were REALLY going to change it in U16 and it was just a bug, that's a lie and we all know it).

If we'd been unanimous on the heal nerf, this one wouldn't have happened. Obviously.

So wait... the warforged are Jewish? I always thought dwarves were the clumsy reference to Jewish stereotypes.

[GrampaBill]

It could be that the devs are going to release a super-high Reconstruction item and make the base Repair line useful, yes.

[Aashrym]

That made me laugh out loud. You, sir, have a gift.