AA/SS Bard, could use a few pointers

[Lauf]

I need some help with this one, trying to create a spellsinger that can land enchantments with reasonable DCs on non-SR foes, while mostly relying on his bow through shirady's dance/paralyze to contribute CC and some damage when not singing/casting/fascinating.
basically a bard that can contribute CC through fighting without abandoning completely the ability to enchant.

Starting Abilities:
Str 10
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 16

Feats:
toughness
mental toughness (spellsinger pre-requisite)
wep. focus ranged (AA pre-req)
point blank shot
rapid shot
precise shot
manyshot

epic feats
inspire excellence
imp. precise shot

looking at those feats you're probably wondering about the ability to enchant... I hope that taking the ability level ups in cha will enable me to reach a reasonable DC, especially if coupled with a +3 to enchantment DC that can be twisted in from magister (tier 2), assuming that it would apply even if I won't have a spell focus feat in the end build (through feat swap). is that a reasonable expectation, or should I abandon offensive casting altogether?

taking the level ups in cha would mean relying on shirady destiny (+ the inspire courage) to take care of the to-hit, and supply the damage lacking from not having high strength or the bow-strength feat.
tailwind (tier 2) from fatesinger seems like a mandatory twist, helping to shore up that front by adding +3 to-hit and damage.

however the third twist I could use a hand with. I suppose I could twist in 30 positive spell power from Exalted Angel, but that seems a little lack luster... any better options?


I would also appreciate advice on the order in which the feats would be best taken in.

Thank you for reading, any and all input is most welcome.

[unbongwah]

Although I haven't updated it a while, see my Bardcher thread. In my view, you can't have good AA DPS and good CC spells on the same build; not enough feats, stat pts, or APs - you're pulling yourself in two separate directions. Focusing on CC thru songs makes more sense, IMHO; you could probably also make a decent healer with the right enhs & feats.

[Ayyelos]

The best CC spells for a bard are: Otto's Irrisistable Dance (no save only spell pen check, so no worries about DC for this one), Hold Monster, and Dancing Ball.

Let's figure out your best case final DC (before destinies) with what you have:
Spell DC's are calculated as follows:
10+Primary casting stat mod+Spell Level+feats+Items=DC


*First the casting stat
CHA: 16+5 Level ups+2 Capstone+3 Enhancements+3 Exceptional+8 item+2 ship=39 CHA for a modifier of +14
Did not include yugo pots, for another +2, and note that you will need to do a little gear grinding for the +8 and +3.
*Next the Spell Level
Unfortunately, the two best CC spells are level 4 for a bard: Dancing Ball and Hold Monster. With heighten on, these can be counted as level 6, giving you two more DC's for them. You don't have heighten listed, so let's go with level 4.
*Feats
You have no spell focus feat, so nothing there, but the capstone enhancement does give you +2 to enchantment spells so we'll count that here.
*Items
+3 is super duper rare, so let's plan for a +2 item (like a dreamspitter/xoriat shard).

So all together, we get:
10+14 (casting stat mod)+4(spell level)+2(capstone)+2(item)= 32 Enchantment DC before destinies. Which is not stellar.
We could get that a little higher with a yugo pot, heighten, and both focus feats, bringing the total to 37. Which is certainly a lot more reliable (not amazing, but a big difference over a DC of 32). However, that costs 3 feats, which would totally gimp your AA angle.

Bards are a little feat starved (as you know) and if you're trying to do both ranged and enchantment, one is going to suffer. So it's a matter of what's more important to you in terms of feats. Use irresistable dance, fascinate and keep a paralyzing bow around for more CC help if you want to focus on the ranged.

Hope any of that helped your decisions.

Edit: I really enjoy Endless Faith (I think?) from exalted angel for the giant boost to my SP pool on any of my blue bar toons- also nice that it is a tier 1 twist, just a long trek over to that sphere.

[Lauf]

Thank you both very much!

Ayyelos, thank you for the DC breakdown. really needed that information

I was afraid of that... with the DCs being this low, I'll drop the notion of CC casting and focus on the bow aspect of the build. this would probably mean more ability points into con and dex, and less into cha.
now I wish I had a place to slot bow strength

which brings me to your thread Unbongwah, your view of a bardchers seems most accurate, and with casting no longer a priority going for the capstone seems far less significant. your bardcher thread has been most helpful

And before I forget, Ayyelos, thank you for drawing my attention to the Endless Faith twist, would be great to have echoes of power on a bard, should I decide to go with one of the builds from Unbongwah's bardcher thread (a WC or Virtuoso)