Bow Strenght should be removed

[licho]

Barbarians - Simples - At Lvl 6/12 and 18* Barbs get to add 10/20/30 pts total str bonus to Bow dmg {this stacks with all other bonuses}.

Normal Bows would be phased out in exactly the same way as Normal Armours are being phased out at this moment.

*We don't want every Archer splashing 1 or 2 lvls of Barb all of a sudden.

So in short you want:
1. Remove composite bows, we dont need 2 types of bows.
2. Rename normal bows to "composite" so they sound cooler now.
3. Add overcomplicated class related enhancement to Barbarians.
4. If smbd plays Fighter Horcs (some nice str here to) tell him "sorry this system dosnt support your build".
And call it the day.

Sorry, but this not sounds as improvment. You are trying to hard to make it more complicated.

I would rather stick to original idea - giving bow strenght with profficiency - since its much simplier, and benefits all builds without any manual adjustment.

[FranOhmsford]

So in short you want:
1. Remove composite bows, we dont need 2 types of bows.
2. Rename normal bows to "composite" so they sound cooler now.
3. Add overcomplicated class related enhancement to Barbarians.
4. If smbd plays Fighter Horcs (some nice str here to) tell him "sorry this system dosnt support your build".
And call it the day.

Sorry, but this not sounds as improvment. You are trying to hard to make it more complicated.

I would rather stick to original idea - giving bow strenght with profficiency - since its much simplier, and benefits all builds without any manual adjustment.

1. Composite Bows as is are extraneous - You're right - We don't need 2 types of bows.
2. 95% If not more of Bows under Lvl 5 would be NORMAL Bows - Just the same as we still see NORMAL Armours at these Levels.
Composite would be an upgrade similar to Battle Plate or Skirmish Leather - Of course this would entail fixes to existing named bows {many of which need updating anyway}.
3. Nothing Overcomplicated about adding this to Barbs {FREE btw - Not an Enhancement with an AP cost}. You were right - Barbs should be able to use more of their Str bonus then most characters.
4. I gave you a reply to your Barb issue so now it's Fighters eh? Is it going to be Sorcerers soon?
Anyway - Fighters get other Bonuses - A lot of extra feats that the likes of a Barb cannot take.
I see no issue with giving H-Orcs {and Possibly Warforged} a bone here and allowing them this Barbarian bonus as Racial.

Who are you going to give this proficiency to? Everyone? Or just Fighter/Paladin/Barb/Monk {Not sure Monk should get it myself but they do come under Melee.}.
Oh and of course Rangers MUST continue to get it mustn't they?
Should Elves be given it Free? This could be an interesting little bonus {Operative word being Little}.

I'd prefer to see Halfling rogues get slings then Bow Str.

[ZeebaNeighba]

Bow Strength has prerequisites of

Point Blank Shot (required, ok)

Weapon Focus Ranged (required...also required for Arcane Archer so I don't mind too much)

And one of: Power Attack, Zen Archery, Combat Expertise, or Weapon Specialization Ranged. Essentially, 4 trash feats if you're not a fighter or monk. At least remove this, because otherwise it turns it into feat tax...that takes 2 feats.

[Coldin]

Bow Strength has prerequisites of

Point Blank Shot (required, ok)

Weapon Focus Ranged (required...also required for Arcane Archer so I don't mind too much)

And one of: Power Attack, Zen Archery, Combat Expertise, or Weapon Specialization Ranged. Essentially, 4 trash feats if you're not a fighter or monk. At least remove this, because otherwise it turns it into feat tax...that takes 2 feats.

Pretty much. Power Attack doesn't work with bows. Extra AC while being ranged isn't that useful. Only level 4 fighters can get Weapon Specialization, and only a monk/cleric/fvs would want Zen Archery.

Even with that pre-req removed, it still takes two feats, albeit ones most people will take anyway. Then you have the feat itself on an already very feat starved build. Specializing in ranged combat is very feat-extensive to get up to an effective level.

[Ungood]

IF the problem is that Bow Strength is too costly in it's current format, Why not just give everyone the Bow Strength feat at first level and call it day.

No need to complicate anything.

[Vellrad]

IF the problem is that Bow Strength is too costly in it's current format, Why not just give everyone the Bow Strength feat at first level and call it day.

No need to complicate anything.

Any barbarian (or any high str character) is much better with brutal throw anyway.


If someone wish to deal higher damage on their barbs with ranged weapons, just take that one feat instead of suggesting changes that will never get implemented.

[licho]

Who are you going to give this proficiency to? Everyone? Or just Fighter/Paladin/Barb/Monk {Not sure Monk should get it myself but they do come under Melee.}.
Oh and of course Rangers MUST continue to get it mustn't they?
Should Elves be given it Free? This could be an interesting little bonus {Operative word being Little}.

I'd prefer to see Halfling rogues get slings then Bow Str.

The weapon proficiency is already part of the game, bow proficiency is given to:
- All full martial classes
- Rogues and bards
- Silver flame Exorcist FvS and Clerics
- Elves in any class.

So proficiency is already in game, and is spread among classes.
Some classes/races dont get it but have other bonuses.
Unfortunetly the fact that my race/class combo have bow proficiency have no advantage, since bow is useless till i get bow strenght.
(and probably long after before you sink many feats here)
And this is why im suggesting a change.

IF the problem is that Bow Strength is too costly in it's current format, Why not just give everyone the Bow Strength feat at first level and call it day.

No need to complicate anything.

This is what im suggesting in orginal post, exept tie it with bow proficiency so there will be still feat investment, but some class/race will have take it by deafult.

[Ungood]

This is what im suggesting in orginal post, exept tie it with bow proficiency so there will be still feat investment, but some class/race will have take it by deafult.

nahh.. just make it a Free Feat, after all a Rogue does not need to be proficient with a great-axe to get their STR bonus with it.

[licho]

nahh.. just make it a Free Feat, after all a Rogue does not need to be proficient with a great-axe to get their STR bonus with it.

This is interesting aproach, and i wouldnt bash it as the possible solution.
After all to use bow you still need both Str + Dex to hit things and do some dmg, and without prof tohit is low, even more if you are not specced for dex.

And to get full power from archery you anyway need 9 more feats and 6 level of monks + AA, so there is a lot of space for suffering, and building for.

[Gizeh]

So you want to enjoy the benefits of a feat without taking that feat - or taking one ranger level.

Reminds me of this thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...chew+materials

Edit: And if either of these are introduced to the game it won't be long before all kinds of other classes / playstyles will ask for free feats as well.

[licho]

So you want to enjoy the benefits of a feat without taking that feat - or taking one ranger level.

New Exiting Feats:
Axe Strenght - when using axes, and greataxe you can now add your str mod to dmg. Barbarians (and only Barbarians) get this feat at level 1.
Dwarven Axe Strenght - since its always good idea to troll Dwarves, nope Dwarves dont get it as part of race stuff.
Conjuration Magic - you can now cast conjuration spells. Requires: Mental Tougness, Spell Focus Conjuration, and skill focus concentracion.
Fire Magic - You can now cast spells with fire tag. Sorcerer at lv 1 can choose one of fire/ice/acid/lighting magic.

If none of this 4 feats exist, why should bow strenght?

[Ungood]

So you want to enjoy the benefits of a feat without taking that feat - or taking one ranger level.

Reminds me of this thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...chew+materials

Edit: And if either of these are introduced to the game it won't be long before all kinds of other classes / playstyles will ask for free feats as well.

You mean like this - Gnollish War Bow

[Gizeh]

You mean like this - Gnollish War Bow

I can't see a problem if Bow Strength is granted on a small number of items, just like there are a few light weapons that let you use dexterity for attack (basically granting Weapon Finesse). This way if you don't want to take the feat you have to choose between a bow that grants you Bow Strength or another bow that may overall be better suited for certain situations but doesn't let you add your Strength bonus to damage for free.

Maybe converting Bow Strength from a feat to an enhencement might be a solution. In the first previews of the (now postponed) enhancement pass it seemed like there will be an enhancement line that allows dex-based characters to use their dexterity bonus as damage modifier for light weapons, so introducing a similar system for bows could free a feat slot for ranged characters.