BYOH Deserves another thread!

[Ungood]

Did you look at the crafting machines in the crafting hall? You can look up the recipes. As it happens, I just crafted my +2 Luck w. +2 Conjuration belt yesterday, so I KNOW it's possible.

Umm at this point I am just going to reiterate what I said.

If you are talking about Cannith crafting,the Good Luck Shard is Limited to the Trinket Slot. Unless they changed that in the 150+ ranks system.

These "Flexable" shards are part of that system, So, in this regard, and I hate to be mean, the fault lies on your part to understand what I said, not on my part of knowing what I am talking about.

[pHo3nix]

Minor detail, but you can only get 10-20 on DT armor, there is no 30 rune. (If there is, I have never seen it and the wiki lies)

You are right, there's no 30% heal amp rune unless they just added it. But on this forum lots of people love to write about things they do not know that much about claiming they know everything

[Ungood]

Minor detail, but you can only get 10-20 on DT armor, there is no 30 rune. (If there is, I have never seen it and the wiki lies)

I could be thinking of The Sovereign Threat amp runes that go to all 3 tiers.

[katz]

And yet, in spite of whatever DDOwiki may say, it remains simple fact that +2 Luck can be crafted on any slot with a far lower crafting level than you're claiming.

Did you look at the crafting machines in the crafting hall? You can look up the recipes. As it happens, I just crafted my +2 Luck w. +2 Conjuration belt yesterday, so I KNOW it's possible.


Kids at home, here's your lesson: don't use a wiki to do your homework, or you'll quite often end up getting it wrong.

Edit: Oh, you quoted the release notes yourself, and somehow missed it:



Also...double-checking, I mixed up the Conjuration Focus with the Luck, you need at least a 113 Divine for the Luck, the 106 Arcane is for the Conjuration. But still FAR below 150.

i went to the crafting station. this is what i found.



you really should change your WHOLE post instead of just tacking on a half-***ed 'oh sorry i was mistaken...but even tho i was wrong, i'm not wrong!!!!' at the end.
kinda LOL that you come off so condescendingly and then are wrong yourself. just sayin'

[Ungood]

Almost 5 min of haste per rest, +6 to UMD and you call it a wasted slot?

Pretty much, yup. If I needed haste for a quest, pots are dirt cheap compared to CSW pots.

Barb in my sig, which happen to be my main in his barb life, got 34 UMD at lvl 13, enough to use heal scrolls quite well, and that's without gear swapping. Sacrificing some DPS for survivability seems a fair trade off, unless you think soulstones got great DPS

Just to be clear, this is that 5th life, Rogue Splash, Barb in your sig, that is wearing mostly Raid Gear and Some GS, Who I would Suggest going with a Mantle of the World Shaper for the 5% Exp, and use a Greater Bold for shocking blow and +2 Additional seeker, unless you need the +2 Luck for skills.

I just want to make sure we are talking the same toon who should have a higher UMD at 13th, (16) then a Pure Barb could have at cap (11)?

Because you know, I did discuss splits.

So please, stop saying that there aren't self-sufficiency options for melees after lvl 10; they are there, it's just some people don't want to use them.

I have already made it clear that to a vet, on life 5 there many options.

But here is what I see: at 13th:

• you have zero heal amp items,
• you have zero regen items
• and zero means to self heal beyond a pot, and your UMD.

Which I might add would require you to drop your Claw Set for Seven Fingered Gloves (and I am assuming that you have them) because what you have on in MyDDO is not enough to make a 34 UMD even with a 16 base +4 Cha Bonus (19 Cha and you have Ship Buffs in your MyDDO Profile because you have 30 to all resists) +1 Ship, +2 Luck, +6 GS, which is 29, so unless you are hiding 5 UMD some place, your gear in it's current state is not enough and no surprise that seven fingered gloves are, +5 UMD.

Not only that, at 13th, you only have 75% fort, zero striding, and a 9 reflex save with ship buffs on. No idea what the Con-op gives you tho, but I am wagering it's HP because those look decent enough.

[SirValentine]

you really should change your WHOLE post instead of just tacking on a half-***ed 'oh sorry i was mistaken...but even tho i was wrong, i'm not wrong!!!!' at the end.
kinda LOL that you come off so condescendingly and then are wrong yourself. just sayin'

For what? He claimed it either couldn't be done or needed 150+. I knew I'd done it recently for far less than that, as my crafting levels are in the 114-121 range. I'd done two shards, one needing 106, the other 113, and misremembed which was which. Which is nothing to do with the point that it's A) possible, and B) needs FAR less than 150.

Nice screenshot. If the other guy had checked like you, he wouldn't have needed to make ridiculous claims about it not being possible.

[SirValentine]

These "Flexable" shards are part of that system, So, in this regard, and I hate to be mean, the fault lies on your part to understand what I said, not on my part of knowing what I am talking about.

They sure are part of that system. And I understood what you said...which was factually wrong. 150+...wrong. Oh, and the 106+ I mentioned earlier was wrong, too, you actually need 113+. But still way below 150+.

[Ungood]

For what? He claimed it either couldn't be done or needed 150+

Did I now? Care to show me where I said you needed 150+ ranks to craft the shard.

[Ungood]

They sure are part of that system. And I understood what you said...which was factually wrong. 150+...wrong. Oh, and the 106+ I mentioned earlier was wrong, too, you actually need 113+. But still way below 150+.

Previous to U14, the Max the Crafting System went up to was 150 and it was impossible to craft a +2 Luck anywhere but the Trinket. With U14, the Crafting System went to 150+ and added in flexible runes to it, I admit I did not bother to look at what the new cap was at so I just said 150+, nor did I bother to look at what the new system brought with it.

Now, on to your mistaken assumptions, I never said it required 150+ ranks to make the shard, you totally made that part up on your own.

And now you want to keep trying to say you're right, I won't stop you. But what you are trying to prove you right about, I have no idea.

[Ungood]

NvM.

[jonqrandom]

have i missed it, or has no-one mentioned tasty ham? are they awesome? no, they take time standing still to eat and without amp it's only 50HP over a minute. but mix it up with amp, pots, run along in a cleric's aura, whatever, and it provides a nice little boost.

farming them is pretty braindead. best bet is PM for built-in deathblock and deathward, after that WF with deathblock (being able to cast resists is good), then cleric/FvS/druid with deathblock and deathward. if you want to, you can try with a bunch of DW clickies and/or or resto scrolls, but you still need DB.

get resists (and save buffs if you care) from your ship (or get an invite). wander into xorian cypher or invaders - casual is fine, but make sure you're not breaking your streak. clear enough trash to be able to stand around a load of chaos orbs without getting hassle. eventually the things seem to stop moving around, and i can usually end up sitting in a couple. DB will stop them insta-killing you, and DW will stop them negging you, but they can dispel so you need to keep half an eye on it. if you can be healed you'll get healed, if you can be repaired you'll get repaired, and if you're undead those inflict wounds plus your death aura should keep you upright. when your resists run out, re-cast until you run out of mana, go shrine, rinse and repeat for as long as you have patience.

if you're doing this with DW clickies or resto scrolls you won't be able to spend as long in quest each time, and/or this will get expensive :/

i didn't say it would be fun, but if you can dual-box you can keep actually playing the game while you're farming - otherwise you can pretty much tab in and out of the game and do whatever else you want while farming your hams.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

This all started with the BYOH complaint threads.

I have seen very few EE BYOH LFMs. But by lvl 20+, I think this thread has shown that there are a number of options. Granted a new player may not have them, but a vet should have access to many options if he makes it a priority.

And I have seen few BYOH raids. And even the "no Healer" TOD raid I participated in had people healing our main tank.
He may have done some of his own healing too, but I'm just saying that I really doubt people expect the guy they are depending on to hold raid boss agro to be doing his own healing.

So I don't think using EE or raids as an example is all that valid.


Now.... the new guy who's highest toon is a melee guy... yes... he has a problem.
when? Well... kinda from lvl 1, but reguardless, he does not have the gear or plat to really be self sufficient.

I have run into this with my Brb17 on Sarlona. Not my main server, although I do have some resources there, they are few. I wasn't in BYOH groups... just lots of groups with few incoming heals.

I could barely afford any pots.
But... I changed my playstyle to accomodate whateever situation I found myself in. (it's amazing how a Cleric who previously handed out zero heals will suddenly start healing a Barbarian when he finally realizes just why their former "tank" is now in the back of the room using a throwing dagger. )

Anyway, few people have shown me anything that will help the new melee guy out very much.

But what I see mostly is TRs.
What is their excuse?
(well, I realise that it actually takes very little time to get to 20 and go on to a next life or three...which means they might not have much gear either... but still...)

Epic items are not an option for a guy under lvl 20.

Raid loot is rare.

Green Steel takes time. IMO, more time than it takes to get to 20... cause I certainly would not make a +6 Cha skills item my first priority. That's like number five or even further down the list IMO.


Silver Flame favor also takes time. Necro quests are barely run. Many people get to 20 before getting Silver Flame pots.


So... like many have said, somewhere along the line... in the teen lvls IMO... melee guys have trouble with BYOH.

For the vets I still think that this is just because they fail to make it a priority. They choose DPS over versitility and refuse to slow down to reduce incoming damage.

But for the new guy, I understand that this is a problem.
But then... if you are new.... why would you want to join these groups anyway?
Seriously.. I avoid them because they attract elitists...
if you are new, you should be avoiding them way more than I do!

(of course, part of the problem is the new guys... who want to be elitists.... and come to the forums, pretending to be vets. )


At any rate, I don't actually see much of a problem here.
I started this thread to filter out some of the arguments and just show what is available for those who want to be self sufficient melees.

I think the means do exist, and many are easy to get.

But build choice is a big one.
Half Orc Barbarians are not usually going to be self sufficient.
But a Human Barb has healing amp option, an extra feat and more skill points....


We all get a free LR now.
I always feel I want to LR a toon before lvl 20 anyway.
New guys should want to do so even more often I would think.
New guys seem to love multi-classing... gotta have that lvl of Rog to unlock things and disable traps...

So... why not take what you learn here. and try to make remake your toon to be more enjoyable?

[FestusHood]

If you are talking about Cannith crafting,the Good Luck Shard is Limited to the Trinket Slot. Unless they changed that in the 150+ ranks system.

They sure are part of that system. And I understood what you said...which was factually wrong. 150+...wrong. Oh, and the 106+ I mentioned earlier was wrong, too, you actually need 113+. But still way below 150+.

I don't know how many times you read Ungood's statement, but you need to read it at least one more time. It is, in fact accurate. He doesn't say it takes 150+ levels, only that it must be something introduced with the SYSTEM that introduced 150+ levels.

[katz]

I don't know how many times you read Ungood's statement, but you need to read it at least one more time. It is, in fact accurate. He doesn't say it takes 150+ levels, only that it must be something introduced with the SYSTEM that introduced 150+ levels.

holy **** someone actually READ what ungood wrote. THANK you.

[FestusHood]

No matter how much you try to twist your own words, something that needs 113 ranks, out of a possible 200 ranks, is not "150". But really, that's still a distraction from the point; if your math has 150 mean one of 200 or 113 or something, have fun with it, as I don't really care. Here's the real point:

"+2 Luck is also craftable onto a variety of slots"

Why don't you just admit that's correct, instead of continuing trying to defend the your previous claim that it's not?

Because you have been making such a big deal out of it. If you basically insult someone, and it turns out you are the one who is wrong, you should expect to hear about it.

[Ungood]

I don't know how many times you read Ungood's statement, but you need to read it at least one more time. It is, in fact accurate. He doesn't say it takes 150+ levels, only that it must be something introduced with the SYSTEM that introduced 150+ levels.

I am in awe. Well, I have nothing further to add, someone read my post and understood it. This almost never happens, so I am not sure what to do.. Umm +1?

[Eilyen]

In the interest of being overly pedantic, since that seems to be the thing to do today, I'd like to point out that the raising of the crafting cap to 200 never actually made it in. The cap was still 150 as of a few minutes ago, dev note here.

[Ungood]

In the interest of being overly pedantic, since that seems to be the thing to do today, I'd like to point out that the raising of the crafting cap to 200 never actually made it in. The cap was still 150 as of a few minutes ago, dev note here.

Well that I did not know. I admit, I have not been following the changes to crafting that closely as of late, just what the release notes said about the level increase and the "flexible" shards hence why I did not know what actually had changed.

Altho, you know, when I said "Unless they changed that in the 150+ ranks system."

I have to admit I was not expecting people to say "You're wrong, they changed it with the new flexible shards"

I mean, Maybe it is totally rhetorical to to even ask this in the face of the current trend of the topic, but would it have been too hard to say "Yah they changed that with the update to crafting, you can now slot Luck other places"

Perhaps I had just expected the people who crafted to follow the changes in crafting and know what I was talking about. It seems I was a tad wrong in that assumption. Now, I don't want to say I need to dummy down my posts, but, perhaps if I made it simpler and said "New Crafting System" but that could have caused some issues because Cannith is not really new anymore, maybe "Updated" or "Post U14 Crafting" as opposed to listing the updates by Level Increase, it would have been easier for others to comprehend what I meant and avoided some of the confusion some of the posters here are suffering from. I just assumed that the Level Increase was the best way to address the changes to the crafting system in this regard.

But equally so, part of the problem here might be caused by the fact that the level cap did in fact not get raised when I thought it did, so that could have added to the confusion.

None the less, Thank you for bringing this up. Good to know. +1 for the Info.

[Aashrym]

Now.... the new guy who's highest toon is a melee guy... yes... he has a problem.
when? Well... kinda from lvl 1, but reguardless, he does not have the gear or plat to really be self sufficient.

I have run into this with my Brb17 on Sarlona. Not my main server, although I do have some resources there, they are few. I wasn't in BYOH groups... just lots of groups with few incoming heals.

I could barely afford any pots.

I would like to point out that collectibles are free and easy to farm.

Some sell on the AH for some plat for those melees, many give free healing potions and wands and scrolls and miscellaneous things. Cryptmoss sutures are CMW CL 10 ML1. Small shard trinket for CSW, shard trinket for greater restoration, medium shard trinket for mass cure critical all exist in the game for eberron shards; these are less easy to farm and expensive to buy on the AH.

Even if a person doesn't have a lot of money selling collectibles will make that money, and turning them in for free healing items makes a big difference instead of purchasing more.

20 mass cure criticals at CL 16 on a trinket is handy. Some might even want to eventually get an epic hammer of life someday too to help out.

The shear number of potions from collectibles and found in breakables gets me going. I never skip the tutorial just for my starter potions on a new character.

[pHo3nix]

Pretty much, yup. If I needed haste for a quest, pots are dirt cheap compared to CSW pots.



Just to be clear, this is that 5th life, Rogue Splash, Barb in your sig, that is wearing mostly Raid Gear and Some GS, Who I would Suggest going with a Mantle of the World Shaper for the 5% Exp, and use a Greater Bold for shocking blow and +2 Additional seeker, unless you need the +2 Luck for skills.

I just want to make sure we are talking the same toon who should have a higher UMD at 13th, (16) then a Pure Barb could have at cap (11)?

Because you know, I did discuss splits.



I have already made it clear that to a vet, on life 5 there many options.

But here is what I see: at 13th:

• you have zero heal amp items,
• you have zero regen items
• and zero means to self heal beyond a pot, and your UMD.

Which I might add would require you to drop your Claw Set for Seven Fingered Gloves (and I am assuming that you have them) because what you have on in MyDDO is not enough to make a 34 UMD even with a 16 base +4 Cha Bonus (19 Cha and you have Ship Buffs in your MyDDO Profile because you have 30 to all resists) +1 Ship, +2 Luck, +6 GS, which is 29, so unless you are hiding 5 UMD some place, your gear in it's current state is not enough and no surprise that seven fingered gloves are, +5 UMD.

Not only that, at 13th, you only have 75% fort, zero striding, and a 9 reflex save with ship buffs on. No idea what the Con-op gives you tho, but I am wagering it's HP because those look decent enough.

So you can use MyDDO, *clap*

Now, for 34 UMD: 4CHA+1luck+1ship+4GH+6GS+16ranks+3bunnyhat, so that's 35, but i've usually read 34 when using a scroll, so 1 point somewhere might be wrong

About Conc Opp: it gives you temporary hp too, it was my HP item 4 lives ago and i do not have larges to waste to make a new HP item at the moment.

Striding is useless, i always got haste (pots or clickies) in quests, pendant in town, so what is striding for?

I got all HA enhancement from helf and from monk dilettante, so that's 20% and 20%, and 5% pally PL, not uber but not that bad either. At lvl 16 i'll get my DT outfit with 20% HA on it, so that's a little more.

My Reflex sucks, haven't ever had any problem in the lvling process, i just put on a PLIS when i know i might get lots of damage from spells. Oh, and i can even do traps and i was one of the trapper in a VON5 elite at lvl, done all north traps without getting hit once, so it's not like you need uber reflexes to survive while lvling, just learn do dodge things. Reflexes are good, but i prefer some more HA and UMD.

75% fortification is cause i've never bothered to upgrade some of my lvling gear from when i was a wf, so until lvl 16 i've always played with 75% fort on fleshies and never died cause of that; when i died it was because i did something really stupid or i got hit by the lag monster, so nothing to do with fortification and self-healing

Healing methods i use while lvling:
1) I use my brain: never aggro more than i can handle, pull when it's needed, use terrain to my advantage, use displacement clickies/scrolls. It's not really a healing method but it works wonder at avoiding damage, so it's even better cause it saves plat
2)CSW pots: with my current HA they hit for 30-42 HP, usually enough to save my ass at the last moment while jumping around or hiding in some places.
3)CCW wands: better than pots, just cycle through these and the pots for fast healing.
4)Heal scrolls: not 100% success rate yet, but they work decently and often saved me.
5)Lately i tried to use hirelings even if i hate them: they are so dumb i usually regret summoning them, but they can save some plat sometimes, nothing i would count on to save my life at the last moment though.

Using these simple methods i lvled up with an elite streak going until cap, being always self-sufficient, mostly soloing or Pugging if i'm in the mood to try to get a party to speed things up.

If you are on Cannith and can take care of yourself without crying for a nanny every 2 steps you are welcome to join me and help me speed things up.

Options for self-sufficiency are in the game, avoiding them cause they are "hard" to get or you have to sacrifice some DPS doesn't mean they do not exist.