BYOH Deserves another thread!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Not to be one to feel left out, I thought I would post anothere thread about BYOH.

Actually, I was hoping to take this one in a slightly different direction... rather than join one of the threads that have ten different conversaions going on at once in them.

So I will ask this question:



What kinds of healing options are there for characters without SP?

and what kinds of healing amp options are there?

How much healing amp do these options give us? How do they stack?

What are some other self sufficient options?




We have CSW potions. Including those from guild vendors that are suppose to be cheaper to purchase.

We have Silver Flame potions.

We have UMD as an option, but I would not mind a restate of how a guy with only 11 ranks in UMD and an 8 Cha can UMD heal scrolls......

You could roll up a Halfling or Half Elf. Take Dragon Marks or an appropriate Diletant(sp) feat and enhancements.

I wouldn't go so far as to tell someone to put point into the Heal skill, put it would help you get more HP back at rest shrines..... (better put those same points into UMD instead IMO)

Humans and Half Elves can take Healing Amp enhancements. (they are the only ones, right?)
I can't remember if any of the classes have a healing amp enhancment line....

10% from ship buff that any guild ship of any lvl can have I think.

Which classes have Wand/scroll enhancements? Does anything else effect the power of wands/scrolls?

I think it is worth mentiioning that buffs (available from guilds and house P/J favor.. and clickies) can greatly reduce how much damage you take.

Also AC works now, and can greatly reduce how much damage you take.
(did you know that Barbs can wear Medium Armor and use Shields?)

Speaking of Barbs.... They get a damage reduction line of enhancments. (although I have always thought that DR in this game is so little that it is barely worth mentioning... if you think other wise, please comment and let me know)

WF get one too.. right?

WF have immunties.... what else?

Dwarves have spell defense and shield bonuses.... what else?

Elves have. (yes, some people play Elf melee guys ) Dragon Marks.

Drow have (yes them too...) SR which I think is underrated by the community.

We mentioned Humans and Half Elves and Halflings.


Half Orcs have hirlings. (jk... you guys are the one race that really gets screwed.... how's all of that Strength and TWF line working out for ya? )


Anyway... what else? What am I missing?

I know this thread will devolve into the same bickering as the others, but maybe I can actually get some advice and knowlege posted here first....

Thx

[Viisari]

We have UMD as an option, but I would not mind a restate of how a guy with only 11 ranks in UMD and an 8 Cha can UMD heal scrolls......

11 base + 5 epic levels + 6 GS charisma bonus + 5 cha mod + 4 gh + 5 item + 3 SF:umd = 39

That does however require swapping and a feat (swapping being the worse part) so I tend to just go with a level of rogue...

[Fomori]

I can't remember if any of the classes have a healing amp enhancment line....

Monks have 3 tiers of healing amp, and get an ability where they can meditate to heal.

Paladins using Hunter of the Dead get healing amp as well.

[grgurius]

In before Ungood.

[Raithe]

Monks have 3 tiers of healing amp, and get an ability where they can meditate to heal.

Paladins using Hunter of the Dead get healing amp as well.

This here to me seems to be bad game design causing a large disparity in survivability.

Both monks and paladins already have self-healing capabilities, making them more healable amplifies their own abilities.

IMO, it should have been barbs and fighters that got the healing amplification.

[Ew_vastano]

This here to me seems to be bad game design causing a large disparity in survivability.

Both monks and paladins already have self-healing capabilities, making them more healable amplifies their own abilities.

IMO, it should have been barbs and fighters that got the healing amplification.

only light monks have self healing capabilities (till gmof epic destiny) dark monks have to stick with either cleric dili, sf pots

[darthhento]

This thread uses logic and is dooooOOOOooooOOOOoomed to fail.

No self-respecting uberDPSZ melee will sacrifice anything and will continue to whine about lack of self-heals. We will continue to post BYOH on our gimp builds. Life will go on.

[darthhento]

only light monks have self healing capabilities (till gmof epic destiny) dark monks have to stick with either cleric dili, sf pots

Interesting, wonder how I managed to keep myself healed on a dark monk dwarf with hamp, CSW pots and vampiric weapons.

[Viisari]

Interesting, wonder how I managed to keep myself healed on a dark monk dwarf with hamp, CSW pots and vampiric weapons.

You don't in EE content.

For just leveling potions are plenty for a long time but do become annoying during mid levels unless you have *a lot* of healing amp.

[SirValentine]

We have UMD as an option, but I would not mind a restate of how a guy with only 11 ranks in UMD and an 8 Cha can UMD heal scrolls......

I saw someone else mentioned spending a feat on Skill Focus: UMD. Not needed:

11 ranks
5 Competence bonus (7-fingered, or e Flameward)
3 Enhancement bonus (e Big Top or e Spy Glass)
4 Morale (GH)
2 Luck
1 Profane (Spider mask)
6 Exceptional Cha skills (+1/+2/+3, on Greensteel)
5 Epic levels
--
37 total before adding Cha modifier.

Put on a +6 Cha item, and you just hit your no-fail 39. Nevermind all the other things to get your Cha much higher without spending any build points at all.

[Fomori]

only light monks have self healing capabilities (till gmof epic destiny) dark monks have to stick with either cleric dili, sf pots

My dark monk got the Meditation ability ... sooo, this is false.

Perhaps someone needs to brush up on their monk-fu a bit before posting that someone else is wrong.

[SirValentine]

only light monks have self healing capabilities

I thought dark monks could also sit down to fully heal themselves. Is that really light monk only?

Edit: ninja-ed!

[WruntJunior]

One self-sufficiency option with which few people seem to bother, but does wonders for me, are items like these:

Sadly, this khopesh is pre-u14 (too lazy to hunt new loci of vol to make a new set), but vampirism weapons combined with healing amp can be quite significant mid-fight healing without really cutting into your dps. I've used them on my fighter in EE to cut down on how often I feel the need to pop a heal scroll (and in lower difficulties, they can completely replace heal scrolls).

[Mastikator]

1. Potions, scrolls and wands.
2. Raid stuff, items with "Convalescence" on them, Dragontouched armors, being human/half-elf, being monk and/or paladin. Pretty sure everything stacks, except items of the same amounts.
3. A lot, depending on how much you go for. I've heard of 500% healing amp, I'm personally struggled to reach 200%
4. Don't get damaged (high AC, dodge, concealment, incorporeality, kiting, CC and killing stuff fast) helps. For example, rogue or barb UMDs a scroll of displacement and hits Improv. Uncanny and bam, 75% damage midigation for 20 seconds.

Only time those options don't suffice is when facing powerful bosses and I get the honor of drawing all the agro.

[Qhualor]

11 base + 5 epic levels + 6 GS charisma bonus + 5 cha mod + 4 gh + 5 item + 3 SF:umd = 39

That does however require swapping and a feat (swapping being the worse part) so I tend to just go with a level of rogue...

Pretty hard to get an 11 base if you only have a couple skill points to spend and umd is a cross skill. I guess balance isnt a skill to invest in.

[Khatzhas]

In the pre-level-20 range where the issue is most serious:

Healing options: Hirelings, Potions, UMD. Halfling Dragonmarks.
Hirelings: bad etiquette to bring in unless the rest of the group is cool with it.
Potions: Best generally available heal an average of 22hp. Better than that requires store puchases, and likely TRing.
UMD: Not a realistic option unless you are the right class, or willing to leave your class to splash the right one.
Helf Cleric or FvS dilettante could also be considered this if you have bought the race.
Halfling Dragonmarks: Very limited power on a non-caster until you spend all three feats and enhancements. Good performance on a caster where you can use your metamagics to boost the earlier ones.

Healing Amp: Racial, Class-based, Guild ship NPC. Items.
Race: Human (up to 30%) or Half-elf (Up to 20%).
Class: Monk (up to 30%), Monk dilettante feat (up to 20%). Paladin Hunter of the Dead Prestige (up to 30%).
Items: Etremely limited unless TRing. Convalescent lootgen with <20 ml are very rare and very expensive (10, 20, or 30%. Monks have Jidz-Tetka bracers (25% in Fire stances).

Non-SP class with Wand/Scroll enhancements is the Rogue. Nothing else affects wand and scroll output unless you are an Artificer. Wanding or Scroll- healing is affected by target's Healing Amp however.

Barbarians are able to use shields, but are not advised to unless they have to "turtle-up" for something specific. The difference in AC and PRR for holding a shield will not compensate for the increased damage taken due to opponent surviving longer.
Barbarian damage reduction exists, but does not stack with invulnerability or spearblock for example. Damage reduction also interacts oddly with dungeon scaling IIRC.

[Mastikator]

Pretty hard to get an 11 base if you only have a couple skill points to spend and umd is a cross skill. I guess balance isnt a skill to invest in.

Doing 18 str, 16 con, 14 int, instead of 18 str, 18 con, is in my opinion a good trade-off. You get +2 skill points per level instead of -1 at the cost of 25 hp and 1 fort.
14 starting int, +2 int tome, on a pure dps fighter (or other class that only gets 2 skill points) equals 5 skill points per level. 23 intim, 23 jump, 11 balance, 11 umd, 11 <something else you value>.
Skill points are easy to come by.

[tralfaz81]

This here to me seems to be bad game design causing a large disparity in survivability.

Both monks and paladins already have self-healing capabilities, making them more healable amplifies their own abilities.

IMO, it should have been barbs and fighters that got the healing amplification.

As much as I hate the lack of built in self healing, it really is a trade off for barbs that helps balance them out. We trade heals for crit hits. If we could heal, why play a fighter or a paladin?

Wrut had a great suggestion though. I always keep a Vampiric blade on the hotbar for when things are going rough or for when the heals are slow. Doesn't do as much damage, but can help keep you swinging till the fights over and you can chug a Silver Flame pot.

Doing 18 str, 16 con, 14 int, instead of 18 str, 18 con, is in my opinion a good trade-off. You get +2 skill points per level instead of -1 at the cost of 25 hp and 1 fort.
14 starting int, +2 int tome, on a pure dps fighter (or other class that only gets 2 skill points) equals 5 skill points per level. 23 intim, 23 jump, 11 balance, 11 umd, 11 <something else you value>.
Skill points are easy to come by.

By accident the other day, I discovered if you're doing a basic reincarnation and have used a +2 Int tome, it gives you a handful of extra points when resetting your toon since the +2 kicks in after the first few levels. I didn't use mine for healing though, used them to push up intimidation instead to be able to pull aggro off of the healer if needed.

But would suggest that melees not automatically sell any WIS and INT tomes they find at the auction house. The extra WIS gives you an extra point to your saving throws and the extra WIS gives you more points when leveling.

[Viisari]

I guess balance isnt a skill to invest in.

If you don't have the skill points to spare? Correct.

[Missing_Minds]

only light monks have self healing capabilities (till gmof epic destiny) dark monks have to stick with either cleric dili, sf pots

Incorrect. Level 7 ability.
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Wholeness_of_Body