VIP Perk - no BtA

[Musouka]

Ok... then I suggest a premium perk that anyone who has purchased all the adventure packs and extra races/classes should be granted the account option of having zero items that bind whatsoever. No more BTA, and no more BTC, at the very least Bind on Equip. Yes, we can sell them to VIPs and F2Ps. It's a win win... VIPs will have access to the items quicker by purchasing them from a premium account with all of the content.

It's time they start giving premium accounts some unique perks.

[Hafeal]

I disagree. I believe Turbine bleeds subs because they do not offer enough value.

As of yet though, not one good reason this is game breaking. The only 2 complaints, in this thread, is the excuse the ViPs would get too much and the potential for someone to abuse. Abuse is circumvented by coding. If it is 'too much' to give to ViPs, then sub. What I am seeing is a whole lot of people who do not want to be tempted to sub. This tells me, it would be good marketing on Turbine's behalf.

No, this response should be the one to do so:


VIPs do not need any more perks. Any VIPs that think they do should cancel their subscriptions and go premium.

Correct, and VIP get more then premium, elite open, slightly faster movement intown, and 500 tp a month, which combined are already a good perk for the 'cost' of $10,- a month.

[Musouka]

I disagree. I believe Turbine bleeds subs because they do not offer enough value.

As of yet though, not one good reason this is game breaking. The only 2 complaints, in this thread, is the excuse the ViPs would get too much and the potential for someone to abuse. Abuse is circumvented by coding. If it is 'too much' to give to ViPs, then sub. What I am seeing is a whole lot of people who do not want to be tempted to sub. This tells me, it would be good marketing on Turbine's behalf.

You're assuming subs is their primary source of income on this game. Show me the proof that they require subscriptions over the alternative.

[Hafeal]

It's time they start giving premium accounts some unique perks.

This is the fallacy. The "perk" of premium is that you only pay only for what you want, when you want. Subscribers who pay regularly get better perks. Way of the world.

[Musouka]

This is the fallacy. The "perk" of premium is that you only pay only for what you want, when you want. Subscribers who pay regularly get better perks. Way of the world.

I disagree. I pay regularly to keep up to date with the current content. So I am entitled regular payment perks, especially since I do own all of the content the game offers on this account.

[Hafeal]

You're assuming subs is their primary source of income on this game. Show me the proof that they require subscriptions over the alternative.

I don't. In fact, I doubt it. It used to be. However, I think as a backbone of revenue, it would be a great way to entice people into the game for consistent revenue rather than having to rely on sales in the Store to drive TP purchases. Subs provide "known" revenue streams which is better than the haphazard TP whack stick they have had to rely on with so many going to Premium.

Overall, I think the game will be better served with a bigger sub base - both in WBs world and in the game development cycle. I think a large part of how the devs are driven by management derives around the uncertainty of revenue streams based on the current Premium driven model.

P.S. Premium should have been the stick to drive people to sub. Somehow (amazing right?) Turbine got it backwards and has turned Premium into the revenue source while subs wane.

[Musouka]

I don't. In fact, I doubt it. It used to be.

However, I think as a backbone of revenue, it would be a great way to entice people into the game for consistent revenue rather than having to rely on sales in the Store to drive TP purchases.

Subs provide "known" revenue streams which is better than the haphazard TP whack stick they have had to rely on with so many going to Premium.

Overall, I think the game will be better served with a bigger sub base - both in WBs world and in the game development cycle. I think a large part of how the devs are driven by management derives around the uncertainty of revenue streams.

What is your basis on this being a backbone of revenue? I see them adding more little items to the DDO store, and I would call that the backbone of revenue. You really cannot support any of your claims. There is a reason why there are more and more games using a f2p model.

Overall, I think you are misunderstanding what Turbine thinks. They went free to play, because a sub base wasn't supporting the game.

And quit acting like that the subs going away is a bad thing. Subscriptions across the MMO genre ARE becoming obsolete, it's time to get with the times.

[Hafeal]

I disagree. I pay regularly to keep up to date with the current content. So I am entitled regular payment perks, especially since I do own all of the content the game offers on this account.

I will say this - I do agree. I have advocated on these forums that DDO should have a "Rewards" type program for Premium players, or any player who spends money in the Store. In fact, I suggested not too long ago in hook up with the overall WB strategy. Thing is, WB recently discontinued their rewards program; so until they start a new one Turbine would have to have its own.

So, yes, your idea is fine. But it is separate and distinct from what I am proposing - I am for both.

P.S.. Here is the link to the thread and relevant post to my support of your statement: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...90#post4689590

[Hafeal]

Overall, I think you are misunderstanding what Turbine thinks. They went free to play, because a sub base wasn't supporting the game.

Yes, I have no doubt I misunderstand everything the Turbine exec team does.

Yes, f2p 'saved' the game. But sub models do work and they work for other games. F2P in and of itself does not vault games to success and has seen its share of failures. It is a gateway to get people in - now - how do you keep them? That is a much tougher proposition.

[Gizeh]

I don't. In fact, I doubt it. It used to be. However, I think as a backbone of revenue, it would be a great way to entice people into the game for consistent revenue rather than having to rely on sales in the Store to drive TP purchases. Subs provide "known" revenue streams which is better than the haphazard TP whack stick they have had to rely on with so many going to Premium.

[...]

"consistent revenue", my favorite argument....

So because you pay 15$ this month, or 100$ this year, means that Turbine can rely on you paying the same amount in the next month or year?

Unless Turbine reveals the percentage of money coming in from subscriptions vs. money coming in from selling individual point packs there's no way any of us can tell who is supporting the game more (the obvious exception are the players who subscribe and buy TP packs in addition).

Edit: there are players (like me) who don't mind paying for content but who don't want to pay a monthly fee. In the time I've played this game I paid about as much as a subscriber who also bought the expansion. I can live with the fact that I cannot open any quest on any difficulty, but maybe subscribers should realize that that perk alone is very powerful (just try it- create a new character and run each quest on normal, then hard and only then on elite, or alternatively put up an LFM looking for an elite opener).

[Dysmetria]

"consistent revenue", my favorite argument....

So because you pay 15$ this month, or 100$ this year, means that Turbine can rely on you paying the same amount in the next month or year?

Unless Turbine reveals the percentage of money coming in from subscriptions vs. money coming in from selling individual point packs there's no way any of us can tell who is supporting the game more (the obvious exception are the players who subscribe and buy TP packs in addition).

Obviously it is premiums that support the game more, and premiums that are their more desired customers.

If Turbine preferred subscriptions, they would not have given us all the option to play without subscribing in the first place. nor would they have inspired many other MMORPGs to convert from subscription only to similar hybrid games since.

[Karavek]

Even after buying all of the content in the game I would go VIP for this.

Based on what many post in these fine forums, Raiding is Dead, and the Loot Unimpressive, so why the concern?

I am not worried about someone being able to move a piece of Raid loot around from one of their characters to another. I'm just not.

sorry but the first is exactly why it would go from vip to pay to win. Nothing offered for subbing should have any advantage over just being a premium.

I will never sub again. I have spent hundreds of dollars on this game since I went full time premium. Any real in game advantage should actually be just an easy purchase rather then a reason to sub. Subbing is a dead model that DDO proved just how much when they went hybrid.

Raid loot still has very serious twink advantages, and letting vets who have it all ground out be able to pass it to new alts is a majorly unfair advantage plain and simple.

[Karavek]

I don't. In fact, I doubt it. It used to be. However, I think as a backbone of revenue, it would be a great way to entice people into the game for consistent revenue rather than having to rely on sales in the Store to drive TP purchases. Subs provide "known" revenue streams which is better than the haphazard TP whack stick they have had to rely on with so many going to Premium.

Overall, I think the game will be better served with a bigger sub base - both in WBs world and in the game development cycle. I think a large part of how the devs are driven by management derives around the uncertainty of revenue streams based on the current Premium driven model.

P.S. Premium should have been the stick to drive people to sub. Somehow (amazing right?) Turbine got it backwards and has turned Premium into the revenue source while subs wane.

You are missing the real truth, it isnt them driving subs away, its that people dont like subbing to play a game. They like buying a game in a single shot, and can swallow paying micro transactions to expand that content if they enjoy it.

Its the reason DDO is still kicking. Few MMO are good enough or played actively enough by the majority of their players to warrant a fee for access over a month period when so many play very off the cuff times with no real rhyme or reason.

If I pay for a month, end up for wahtever reason only playing a week out of that month I feel cheated. And less likely to go back to that game. If I instead have access forever and can go back whenever I wish and not just during that month, then i dont feel cheated. It really is that simple.

[Musouka]

You are missing the real truth, it isnt them driving subs away, its that people dont like subbing to play a game. They like buying a game in a single shot, and can swallow paying micro transactions to expand that content if they enjoy it.

Its the reason DDO is still kicking. Few MMO are good enough or played actively enough by the majority of their players to warrant a fee for access over a month period when so many play very off the cuff times with no real rhyme or reason.

If I pay for a month, end up for wahtever reason only playing a week out of that month I feel cheated. And less likely to go back to that game. If I instead have access forever and can go back whenever I wish and not just during that month, then i dont feel cheated. It really is that simple.

This is correct, and completely my view of it.

SWTOR is going to a similar F2P model as DDO. Their biggest reason: When people cancelled their subscription, the biggest reason was that the game had no free to play option and that they would come back to the game if there was a free to play model.

[MRMechMan]

/not signed.

Terrible.

Take a lap.

[Fomori]

Seriously though, you really think VIPEEs deserve something as game breaking as this?
And you want Premiums, that spent hundreds of dollars buying packs, account upgrades, and what not, to be forced into paying for the game again!

While I disagree wholeheartedly with OP's suggestion, this is not a valid argument against it.

So what that you spent hundreds of dollars on getting all the content as a premium player. That is just a facile as the VIP claiming they are spending money every month to justify having the perk.

Also, you are not forced into anything. It would be your choice to spend the money to gain the benefit.

[muny21]

Ok... then I suggest a premium perk that anyone who has purchased all the adventure packs and extra races/classes should be granted the account option of having zero items that bind whatsoever. No more BTA, and no more BTC, at the very least Bind on Equip. Yes, we can sell them to VIPs and F2Ps. It's a win win... VIPs will have access to the items quicker by purchasing them from a premium account with all of the content.

It's time they start giving premium accounts some unique perks.

/signed to the fullest.

So what that you spent hundreds of dollars on getting all the content as a premium player. That is just a facile as the VIP claiming they are spending money every month to justify having the perk.

Also, you are not forced into anything. It would be your choice to spend the money to gain the benefit.

I guess you do not understand what the OP is actually suggestion. To give VIPEEs a distinct advantage over another player because of transactional differences is absurd. Making raid loot BTA would allow them to roll a wizzie or sorc or any of the more popular requested classes for raids, and gear out all their other toons without them ever stepping in a raid. That sounds right to you?

Yes I would be forced to sub to gain that same advantage or to keep up with the VIPEE player base. It is not a facile, it is a fact that buying all the content, banks,classes, etc. for the game costs hundred of dollars. That is even with point sales.

Now, you want to tell the same people that spent all that money they are going to change game mechanics and only way to achieve such is to pay for the game all over again and give them $10 - $15 a month more than what they have already?

"C'mon Man!"

[Fomori]

I guess you do not understand what the OP is actually suggestion. To give VIPEEs a distinct advantage over another player because of transactional differences is absurd. Making raid loot BTA would allow them to roll a wizzie or sorc or any of the more popular requested classes for raids, and gear out all their other toons without them ever stepping in a raid. That sounds right to you?

Yes I would be forced to sub to gain that same advantage or to keep up with the VIPEE player base. It is not a facile, it is a fact that buying all the content, banks,classes, etc. for the game costs hundred of dollars. That is even with point sales.

Now, you want to tell the same people that spent all that money they are going to change game mechanics and only way to achieve such is to pay for the game all over again and give them $10 - $15 a month more than what they have already?

"C'mon Man!"

You chose to spend the money upfront to buy the content instead of the monthly option. That was your choice, and probably the one that made the most sense at that time. However, just because you chose to do so does not mean you are entitled to anything special if the situation changes where it is no longer the one that makes the most sense.

And again on the forcing point. You are not 'forced' to keep up with the joneses, you CHOOSE to do so. A choice usually has consequences. If you choose the option with worse consequences then you have no one to blame but yourself for deciding it was worth it to you.

Lastly, I disagreed with the OP in my previous post... I also said it was just as facile to think that someone should get more benefits because they are VIP. I only point that out in case your reading comprehension fails again on this post.

[Ungood]

Yes, I have no doubt I misunderstand everything the Turbine exec team does.

Yes, f2p 'saved' the game. But sub models do work and they work for other games. F2P in and of itself does not vault games to success and has seen its share of failures. It is a gateway to get people in - now - how do you keep them? That is a much tougher proposition.

As it stands, it is invariable and irrefutable that every game that plans to make money needs to in some way make the spending of that money worthwhile. This of course, takes the form of Pay to Win, otherwise, there is no reason to pay at all if it does not provide an advantage to those that pay.

Sorry but games are not a charity, people don't throw money at them because "it's a good cause" and giving the game away for free does not pay their bills.

As it stands if players will gain nothing by spending hundreds of dollars on a game over someone who has not spent a cent, then, the reality is, there is not a single motive for anyone to spend the money then. There are games out there that are painfully learning this lesson that they need to entice players to pay, and just offing benign items in a item-mall is not going to do it.

Now, over time it will always cost more to maintain a ViP sub then it is buy the packs and accessories of the game in a piecemeal fashion with the premium process.

The single greatest aspect of the Premium service is the one time fee for the product and then never needing to pay-to-play again.

This advantage should be balanced against in some manner if someone opts to go ViP, making a ViP perk so that Raid Loot could be passed in their shared bank, would really be an enticing sale point, no matter how much anyone would complain, it would be very enticing to say the least.

Would it justify the additional monies that a VIP spends, yes, however, I believe that it would need to be attached to an Annual VIP Sub package current pricing at 120 US Dollars, as opposed to just a generic pay $10 this month and get this for the month feature, just to ensure a continual payment.

As it stands however, the real question that surrounds this option is not "is it a good idea" but "Does Turbine Care about it's Subscription Customer Base"

If they care about their VIP base, then any idea is worth looking into.

[donfilibuster]

This is not a new debate, and debate it is indeed.
One thing to say is that premium should have been an alternative way of payment, to cater to different spending habits.
Neither way of payment should be better over the other.

The problem about subs and perks grew separately.
It is not about encouraging people to sub, but to make subbers stay that way.

Subs can cancel anytime and not lose anything, making turbine throw bones month by month just to keep them happy.
New premiums can enjoy picking the packs, that's the encouragement to try the game,
however, once deciding to stay we have to invest upfront to get access to the game.