DDOGamer: PvP Dreams - ideas for improving PvP

[geoffhanna]

Need an idea on how to improve PvP?

How about more than 30 of them?

This is the last article in the Saving PvP series. Normal abnormalities resume tomorrow.

[Beethoven]

Well, since this is the last part I'll go ahead and comment.

First, you realize lots of the "pvp-hate" comes from pvpers making huge generalizations which ultimately only imply the only reason someone could possible not like pvp is because they are a wimp and close-minded, but even they would immensely enjoy the experience if they could just overcome their irrational fear and give it a try. Sort of like you do when basically implying we all are nerds and only came to dislike pvp because we were bullied by cheaters and exploiters in the past. Disliking pvp for any other reason is what? Simply not a valid opinion?

See, I don't like anchovies. No amount of sitting on my chest and trying force anchovies in my mouth will make me like them more. You going ahead and telling me the only reason I don't like anchovies is because someone used them to bully me is not going to make me like the taste more either. Furthermore, I have this favorite restaurant which is mostly focused on old-fashioned burgers. Now you come there as well and publicly insist their menu must be changed to a clearly superior anchovy based diet, done in such a way were it is hypothetically possible to avoid anchovies but in reality I usually will end up with anchovies in my food.

You really surprised if I eventually snap and promise to physically hurt the next person who tries feed me anchovies? Then someone coming along to use my violent outburst as example what deeply irrational people those "anchovy haters" are only adds further insult to injury ... and guess what? I still don't like anchovy.

The same holds true with pvp. There are certainly people who don't like pvp because of bad past experience, but there also those who don't like it because it just isn't their type of game. Their "hate" only gets worse when they then watch someone suggest how a game focused on something they enjoy (PvE) should instead be changed to be focused something they don't (PvP). You are doing the same thing: the stuff you suggests isn't a simple add-on, it is an extremely complicated addition that likely will tie up development resources for months. For instance,

Either level everyone up to the highest level in the instance or level everyone down to the lowest level

Leveling / de-leveling (beyond applying negative energy buffs) is a rather involved procedure. That's part why they put yu on a ship and despite that we still have issues every now and then like tomes not applying properly, someone loosing Destiny XP or some gear disappearing. Now you want to trigger a similar function everytime someone enters/leaves an instance? Then add another piece of code on top to control what happens if someone gets looses connection / crashes in the midst of it. And all for:

Level balancing does not apply new enhancements or epic destinies (and leveling down does not remove them) so this does not make characters equal but does apply to hit points, spell points, toughness, casting levels, etc.

Enhancements, destinies and (in some cases) splashing at specific levels is what sets toons apart. You are effectively proposing adding a very complex (and potentially fragile) piece of code for a few people get a few more SP/HP. They still would not be anywhere near the power-level of a properly leveled toon.

Balance equipped items by increasing (or decreasing if leveling down) enhancement first, and then if necessary mutation power until the items are equivalently ranked (this could get tricky on jewelry and clothing items, may have to limit balancing to only weapons & armor or something.

So, basically make them work a little bit like handwraps. Did you miss all the issues they had (and still have) with making handwraps work and/or the UMD issues? Now you want to put every single item in the same situation? That's not going to save the game.

Now, lets assume Turbine would do all that and even get it to work without too much issue; it still would be extremely time-consuming. For what benefit? Three people that possible use it? Three because pvpers who would go through such an involved process to start/join a tournament are a very rare breed. To join a tournament I now have to:

1.) find the rules for this particular tournament, study them and understand them.
2.) research how some rules will affect my toons abilities (ie: spells and abilities that work different in pvp than in pve and any special rules set by the host).
3.) bother with leveling / de-leveling my toon.
4.) likely have to wait until the tournament has enough participants (because chances are no one wants to go through all those steps for only a quick one-on-one).

I don't know about everyone, but those people I know who like their occasional pvp bout like it because they can quickly jump into the action, no need to create groups, wait to fill and/or make it to a quest entrance. Most of them don't even use Capture the Flag because it takes too long to set up, your proposal would take even longer so (judging by my experience) isn't even attractive for a portion of the present pvpers and doubt making things more complex will make it attractive for new players to give it a try either.

Hate to tear into your ideas like that and its nothing personal or something, but I do find you do have some serious flaws in there.

[Ape_Man]

best fix for PvP . . . completely remove it from the game.

Problem solved.

[geoffhanna]

Please don't apologize for disagreeing Beethoven. You made no personal attacks,, you simply stated that you disagree and why. That is how it should always be done but too often is not.

+1 :

Now as to your specific points (or at least some of them, i am doing this from my phone) you are making assumptions about the implementation of these ideas that i do not share. For instance, i do not expect players to level themselves, it would be automatic. And if it is indeed too hard, then instead de-levelling the higher level opponent is fine. Balancing weapons could be as simple as increasing the "plus" of one weapon until the weapon min-levels match.

I would never intend that all of the ideas be implemented. Only the best ones, and that might even be defined as only the easiest ones, although i would hope that a deeper analysis would occur rather than just level of effort.

[MsEricka]

best fix for PvP . . . completely remove it from the game.

Problem solved.

This. So much this.

[Entelech]

Beethoven:

Well said and +1. I can dislike anchovies, and acknowledge that other people have the right to eat all the anchovies they want.

The problem comes in when people with anchovy breath want to hang out with me. It's unpleasant for me, and they seem incapable of understanding why I don't want to be anywhere near them.



Geoffhanna:

Your article captures the essence of the problem perfectly. Your first suggestion is a separate chat channel, to appease the anchovy haters. Then, a few sentences later, you're proposing a public arena and a special anchovy-lover cologne.

Now unless this wonderful public arena is on the far side of Aussircaex's Valley or some similarly out-of-the-way place, what you're really proposing is a 24/7/365 Anchovy Festival that I will be forced to pass through on my way to work every day.

Also, given what I've seen in the PvP arena currently on live, I think you've neglected a few options that will be immensely popular:

(1) I stay level 20, but everyone else gets deleveled down to a level one Rogue, armed with a plastic spork.

(2) No spells work. Except mine.

You get the idea. Most of what you actually see in the PvP pit is a bunch of cheap, cowardly exploitative tactics involving timing your entry until someone has their back to you. In fact, I just had a guildie complaining this week about how Everything is Nothing no longer works in the PvP pit, and how he doesn't feel motivated to do PvP anymore because of it. But at least he has the good grace to brush his teeth before partying with me.

It makes me weep for our species.